same sex marriage question for all faiths.

[Publisher]

As

Okay now hold on here. You are saying its indeed scriptual but it only means that engaging in the act is the sin. Okay now lets hold on right there.

So do you feel it is your duty towards GOD now to partake in this sin or speak out against it? Lets stick with this not the scripture and the rest of the chapter, We can but lets do that on another thread.

The point is what is your call to speak UP for the word of God or just worry about yourself and let others do whatever they want and not tell them that the word of God forbids this.

Lets stick to the question instead of talking about everythink else but the question. Again we can discuss the chapter no problem but lets move on. This is not about that chapter its about the sticking up for the word of God or not.

And no matter what you believe as long as it is the truth as you believe it to be what is your duty to God?

As a Friend…we are called to be leaven in this world…I don’t have to keep silent when others do what is wrong…but I may take a very different approach to “correcting” my neighbor…I have gone on war protests…I have attended a protest rally against the KKK…never yelled back at a KKK member…“You’re a bigot!!! You’re going to hell for your sin!!”…One can stand for Truth and not lose one’s testimony for peace.

I was addressing your statement of “looking the other way” as though that is what is occuring…maybe that is how it appears to you…but “appearances” can be decieving…thankfully God looks on the heart…not the outward appearance we tend to judge others by.

 

[rinnie]

As

As a Friend…we are called to be leaven in this world…I don’t have to keep silent when others do what is wrong…but I may take a very different approach to “correcting” my neighbor…I have gone on war protests…I have attended a protest rally against the KKK…never yelled back at a KKK member…“You’re a bigot!!! You’re going to hell for your sin!!”…One can stand for Truth and not lose one’s testimony for peace.

I was addressing your statement of “looking the other way” as though that is what is occuring…maybe that is how it appears to you…but “appearances” can be decieving…thankfully God looks on the heart…not the outward appearance we tend to judge others by.

No not at all. And pub guess what? I am in complete agreement with you. Even when we disagree with our brother or sister in sin it is never an excuse to treat them with disrespect even if they are doing it to us.

So your answer is pretty much the same as mine, If the opportunity arises and you can in good taste and dignity stick up for the word of God we feel we must do so. That is what God expects of us,

But as you said never in a disrepectful or hurtful way. God does not ever want that. Always in a gently loving way but also firm.

 

[rinnie]

This is true. However, the community will insist on using the same terminology to smother the minds of young people for future acceptance of this vile sinful behavior. The scriptures say that God hates sin. And we, as followers of Him are also to hate sin as God hates sin. So, as a follower of God, Christ Jesus, I hate sin and homosexuality is sinful. I hate pedophilea, fornication, all sins of the flesh. It’s not an option to accept it. Those who accept it accept Satan’s lies. It’s pretty much that simple from what I understand. Not standing for truth is standing for lies. Satan is the father of lies. It sort of falls into place like that from my studies.

My concern is not whether its okay or what other people think but how to teach the truth in the days of the coming persecution of Christians that hold fa st to truth about this subject. Like abortion, we’ll endure even more suffering for Christ. Will you endure? (You, meaning everyone who stands for the truth, that deviant behavior, including homosexual acts, is wrong in the eyes of God and punishable by death (BCV it to death here if I wanted)). Point being is that the scriptures don’t lie or misguide us. Only those refusing to do the Will of the Father in heaven will fail to see the light on this issue. Whether they mean to or not, they will progress the evil one’s agenda according to what I’ve learned, read and understand. I pray for their salvation by way of invincible ignorance, but I know that if they know what they are truly doing they will no doubt be in danger of losing their eternal soul. Please show you rebuttle to these statements by using BCV.

Correct God HATES sin and we are to also. But also God loves the Sinner and we are to also. And I agree with you, you cannot accept one sin and then ignore another. A sin is a sin. There is no such thing as a good sin. Any sin hurts us and it hurts God and usually it hurts others also.

 

[Publisher]

No not at all. And pub guess what? I am in complete agreement with you. Even when we disagree with our brother or sister in sin it is never an excuse to treat them with disrespect even if they are doing it to us.

So your answer is pretty much the same as mine, If the opportunity arises and you can in good taste and dignity stick up for the word of God we feel we must do so. That is what God expects of us,

But as you said never in a disrepectful or hurtful way. God does not ever want that. Always in a gently loving way but also firm.

 

[Lokabrenna]

My question is this. If you support same sex marriage no matter what faith you are, would that not be the same as supporting a sin?

I can’t speak for all Pagans (we are WAY to diverse to ever come to a consensus on just about anything), but I will say that my tradition doesn’t have a concept of “sin” per se. The closest thing to a sin (as in, “something that offends the gods”) is when someone breaks one’s oath.

As for same-sex marriage, the stance on it varies from kindred to kindred and from person to person. I personally have no problem with it, but, being bisexual with a preference for other women, I’m obviously biased.

 

[hosemonkey]

“Panicked Vegan?” Oh sorry, Vanic Pagan.

 

[John21652]

I can’t speak for all Pagans (we are WAY to diverse to ever come to a consensus on just about anything), but I will say that my tradition doesn’t have a concept of “sin” per se. The closest thing to a sin (as in, “something that offends the gods”) is when someone breaks one’s oath.

As for same-sex marriage, the stance on it varies from kindred to kindred and from person to person. I personally have no problem with it, but, being bisexual with a preference for other women, I’m obviously biased.

Yeah, my ancestors were Pagans. The homosexiual/bisexual thing did nothing for populating the colony.

Anyway, they saw the light at about the same time they started to walk around on two legs.

 

[Lokabrenna]

“Panicked Vegan?” Oh sorry, Vanic Pagan.

I’m an omnivore, actually, although I have no beef (pun intended) with vegans unless they try to tell me what I can and can’t eat.

Yeah, my ancestors were Pagans. The homosexiual/bisexual thing did nothing for populating the colony.

Anyway, they saw the light at about the same time they started to walk around on two legs.

Homosexuals and bisexuals aren’t sterile, you know? Many can and do have children, and they did have children back then (with a member of the opposite sex), it doesn’t mean that they were necessarily happy about their arrangement, but most societies had certain expectations regarding marriage and procreation.

 

[John21652]

I’m an omnivore, actually, although I have no beef (pun intended) with vegans unless they try to tell me what I can and can’t eat.

Homosexuals and bisexuals aren’t sterile, you know? Many can and do have children, and they did have children back then (with a member of the opposite sex), it doesn’t mean that they were necessarily happy about their arrangement, but most societies had certain expectations regarding marriage and procreation.

Indeed, another grouping of homio sapiens that forgot their Natural Law foundations and all but died out because of the unnaturalness of their practices.

PS: Two legs is much better!

 

[SwizzleStick]

A relevant and timely Q&A from the EWTN site follows.

"Old Testamant Laws
Question from on 06-12-2011:
after reading Linda’s post I am surprised how obstinate many people are with regard to the Church’s teaching on human sexuality. This teaching has been in place with both the Jewish tradition and Islam for centuries along with Christianity.
those sympathetic with the homosexual movement constantly assert, either directly or indirectly that to speak out against homosexual activity is somehow being condemning of the individuals soul.

Homosexual actions, not the persons, are what is being “condemned”.

The New Testamant is very clear in condemning homosexual actions along with other modes of human conduct. So to attempt to make the argument that we must be tolerant and accept their acting out on their temptations is to give in to sin.

We want the highest and best good for all our brothers and sisters who struggle with same sex attraction and that is Heaven. The Lord Jesus Christ desires that all be saved and so does the Church. Persons who suffer from same sex attraction should be prayed for like all the rest of us who struggle with any kind of temptation.

Answer by Judie Brown on 06-13-2011:
Dear jason
Good analysis. Thank you and God be with you. I hope Linda is reading these posts.

Judie Brown "

Source Link: ewtn.com/vexperts/showresult.asp?RecNum=608048&record_bookmark=3&Forums=0&Experts=0&Days=1&Author=&Keyword=&pgnu=1&groupnum=0&ORDER_BY_TXT=ORDER+BY+ReplyDate+DESC&start_at=

 

[Sufjon]

Correct God HATES sin and we are to also. But also God loves the Sinner and we are to also. And I agree with you, you cannot accept one sin and then ignore another. A sin is a sin. There is no such thing as a good sin. Any sin hurts us and it hurts God and usually it hurts others also.

Avoiding sin is one thing. Hating it is another. Hate is hate. It is probably unhelpful to spiritual development to introduce hate into your being. Hating something is probably on par with the thing being hated in itself.

Your friend
Sufjon

 

[Robert_in_SD]

(name removed by moderator);7943991:

Paul was ignorant of human sexuality…reproductive biology as well as modern psychological understandings of human sexuality…Paul saw everyone as “straight”…there was no “gay”…no “homosexual”…there were terms for same sex lover…but I don’t believe he ever used the term…it’s been a long time since I’ve done extensive study…will have to check.

I do not think it is correct to say he was ignorant of sexuality. Perhaps, it can be said that he did not view sexuality as does our modern society. But that really just begs the question, doesn’t it? Why must we conclude that our modern and permissive views of sexuality are “right” while Paul’s inspired writings against homosexual acts are “wrong?” It seems to me that your position is placing the moral cart before the horse?

Peace,
Robert

 

[Acrusader]

same sex marriage is again the laws of God and nature!!
Have you ever saw two animals from the sex, matching up together?
it’s the maximum level of moral degeneration, even animals don’t act like that!

 

[SwizzleStick]

same sex marriage is again the laws of God and nature!!
Have you ever saw two animals from the sex, matching up together?
it’s the maximum level of moral degeneration, even animals don’t act like that!

Some will argue that animals do indeed act like that.

However, while studies of animals reveal some mounting behavior, animals do not engage in long-term homosexual bonding as some humans do. Usually, the behavior is to express roles of dominance and submission. Also, the behavior does not continue when the individual animal matures and has an opposite sex option.

Even if animals do display that type of behavior at times, that does not make it a moral behavior for people.

 

[Lokabrenna]

same sex marriage is again the laws of God and nature!!
Have you ever saw two animals from the sex, matching up together?
it’s the maximum level of moral degeneration, even animals don’t act like that!

It’s not the most scholarly article, but this list begs to differ:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_animals_displaying_homosexual_behavior

and there’s this one: livescience.com/1125-homosexual-animals-closet.html

I suppose you could argue that all those animals are “confused” and they just mistook a male for a female, but the fact is that animals do “act like that”. Besides, arguing from nature is a logical fallacy, just because something is natural (“found in nature”) doesn’t mean it’s automatically “right”.

There are better arguments against homosexuality, but this isn’t one of them IMHO.Then again, I’m okay with it, so those arguments aren’t likely to work on me anyways.

 

[SteveGC]

Avoiding sin is one thing. Hating it is another. Hate is hate. It is probably unhelpful to spiritual development to introduce hate into your being. Hating something is probably on par with the thing being hated in itself.

Your friend
Sufjon

If you try to link the meaning of “hate” to injustice, prejudice or evil towards other people, then yes, your statement is valid. Christian hate is not these things. It is a necessary turning away from something in favor of a better thing. Do you not hate evil? I do. I hate everything about Satan and his minions, and I think that sort of Christian hate is healthy for the soul.

 

[John21652]

It’s not the most scholarly article, but this list begs to differ:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_animals_displaying_homosexual_behavior

and there’s this one: livescience.com/1125-homosexual-animals-closet.html

I suppose you could argue that all those animals are “confused” and they just mistook a male for a female, but the fact is that animals do “act like that”.

That’s right lots of animals do indeed act that like. That’s beause animals are hormone diven and once the hormones kick in, anything goes. I have seen animals trying to mount farm machinery and farm dogs trying to hump a goat. Ever heard of the expression “like a cow in heat”? It refers to the fact that cows, in season, will take anything available and all day long. The thing is, are humans just like animals, with uncontrollable sexual urges driven by hormones, or are humans able to rationally control their behaviour?

Besides, arguing from nature is a logical fallacy, just because something is natural (“found in nature”) doesn’t mean it’s automatically “right”.

It is not a logical fallacy in any way shape or form. In fact, I am surprised that someone who professes to be a wiccan would even say such a thing. If you were true to the ‘religion’ you espouse, you’d be outside worshipping nature for it’s inherent beauty and order. Somehow, I don’t think you are what you say you are.

The order in nature and in human nature as well, is how normative behaviours are arrived at. It is used by various fields of science. Animal behavourists use the normative aspects of animal behaviour to derive animal handling techniques.

There are better arguments against homosexuality, but this isn’t one of them IMHO.Then again, I’m okay with it, so those arguments aren’t likely to work on me anyways.

It is indeed one of them! The pro homosexual brigade try to use what is abnormal animal behaviour to normalise abnormal human behaviour. That is the fallacy and you are supporting it.

 

[Acrusader]

Some will argue that animals do indeed act like that.

However, while studies of animals reveal some mounting behavior, animals do not engage in long-term homosexual bonding as some humans do. Usually, the behavior is to express roles of dominance and submission. Also, the behavior does not continue when the individual animal matures and has an opposite sex option.

Even if animals do display that type of behavior at times, that does not make it a moral behavior for people.

It’s not the most scholarly article, but this list begs to differ:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_animals_displaying_homosexual_behavior

and there’s this one: livescience.com/1125-homosexual-animals-closet.html

I suppose you could argue that all those animals are “confused” and they just mistook a male for a female, but the fact is that animals do “act like that”. Besides, arguing from nature is a logical fallacy, just because something is natural (“found in nature”) doesn’t mean it’s automatically “right”.

There are better arguments against homosexuality, but this isn’t one of them IMHO.Then again, I’m okay with it, so those arguments aren’t likely to work on me anyways.

The nature was created in a way that everything match up with the its corresponding.
a male + female = new life.
the is applicable on all races.
animals could be confused and take a male to a female and intercourse with it, but this is only because they don’t have a brain, nor a logic. Unlike us humans.
male + male = female + female = unnatural combination = “Error” = something is wrong here.

I think that schools should aware kids from young age about this sexual issue, because it’s destroying our social values, and will create in the future a big society of Homosexuals in more than country in the world, and this will cause many problems that we will not be able to control it.

God created us man and woman so we love one another, and the fruit of this love is a new life. God didn’t created us all men, or all women.

 

[Sufjon]

Do you not hate evil? I do. I hate everything about Satan and his minions, and I think that sort of Christian hate is healthy for the soul.

Hi Steve: I don’t think any sort of hate is healthy for the soul.

Your friend
Sufjon

 

[SwizzleStick]

The nature was created in a way that everything match up with the its corresponding.
a male + female = new life.
the is applicable on all races.
animals could be confused and take a male to a female and intercourse with it, but this is only because they don’t have a brain, nor a logic. Unlike us humans.
male + male = female + female = unnatural combination = “Error” = something is wrong here.

I think that schools should aware kids from young age about this sexual issue, because it’s destroying our social values, and will create in the future a big society of Homosexuals in more than country in the world, and this will cause many problems that we will not be able to control it.

God created us man and woman so we love one another, and the fruit of this love is a new life. God didn’t created us all men, or all women.