Same-sex marriages: Let it be!

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The state is more than an idea. Ideas don’t stick a gun in your face and take your money, freedom, or life. States do all of that with impunity and make you pay for the privilege.

Whereas, ideas, as synapses in a head or words upon a page, are harmless, at least a priori.

ICXC NIKA
 
Roseeurekacross said:
He echoed my sentiments about the survey, today. At the National Press Club Luncheon.
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lol, How stupid do you think people are? If he was a ‘no’ voter maybe I would have listened. Of course they are going to condemn anything where a ‘no’ result could get a chance.

The only thing I’ll grant is that it should have been a binding plebiscite where all Australians voted, they could have held it alongside the next federal election which would have saved costs.

Bob Hawke is worried about how unstable the world is today, he needs to look at himself, because he is partly responsible with his ‘yes’ vote, making it even more unstable as the west rebel against their very foundations.

Thank you for reading
Josh
 
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God instituted marriage. Those who choose to engage in activities that God deems an abomination (ie: lying with one of the same gender as one lies with one of the opposite gender) will not see Heaven. I don’t care how many times they call themselves “married.” They are NOT married in God’s eyes.

Homosexuals are called to live celibate lives not give in to their carnal desires. As Catholics, as Christians, we are to love the sinner but hate the sin. Part of loving the sinner is telling him or her the truth about that sin. I don’t want to stand before God and say I didn’t at least, tell them the truth about their chosen lifestyle and the consequences of their actions.
 
And this takes away his right to have his say on the survey, how?
 
Rau said:
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Vonsalza:
In the same vein, we get to go along with ours from their view.
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Actually, that may not remain so. Our children will be required to be educated now about more than the birds and the bees, because stopping at that would not be inclusive.

Going on and on about “our perspective” vs “their perspective” only goes so far.
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Thus enters “conflict theory”. But we’re already at a disadvantage in that the government whose laws we wanna change is secular by definition.

For good or bad, in this secular democracy the law and the right to alter it belongs to homosexuals and those that affirm their right to secular marriage just as much as it belongs to you.
 
I am discussing the big fat waste of time and money this survey is. And Bob Hawke echoes those sentiments.

Don’t conflate the two.

Bob Hawke carries a lot of public opinion. He always has. This does not create in you, an obligation to listen.

But if you read fb tonight, there is a lot of support for his speech, amongst both camps.

We do an injustice to public issues if we attempt to blindside what we do not agree with.

Which Saint learnt all he could about heresy and errors being propagated so he could calmly discuss and refute it?

Thanks for reading.

Hope this helps.
 
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To Christ. If I were a gay individual looking for answers and reading some of the comments here I wouldn’t even bother attempting to have a conversation and would walk away from what is obviously presented as a closed door.

A little compassion and grace goes a long way in the battle to lead others to Christ.
 
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Especially with you on here using ad hominem attacks.

The plank is large…
 
anikins said:
To Christ. If I were a gay individual looking for answers and reading some of the comments here I wouldn’t even bother attempting to have a conversation and would walk away from what is obviously presented as a closed door.

A little compassion and grace goes a long way in the battle to lead others to Christ.
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By what do you mean a closed door? Also Catholics are called to be compassionate to everyone, including individuals who struggle with Same sex attraction
 
I fully understand and agree that Catholics are called to be compassionate to all. This is my point as well. By “closed door” I mean that, with the environment that some users here are creating, individuals who are in need of a path to Christ and truth in the Church may be turned off completely from joining in the fold.

It is right to lead sinners to salvation, but there is a smart and successful way to go about it, and a consistently non-successful way to go about it.
 
anikins said:
It is right to lead sinners to salvation, but there is a smart and successful way to go about it, and a consistently non-successful way to go about it.
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Like calling someone homophobic and islamophobic.
 
I’m referring to an environment that sends the message that LGBT Catholics are “others” or that we are not willing to properly and openly communicate with them. For example, there are Catholics here who do not even use the correct terminology when referring to gay, lesbian or transgender Catholics. The Church teaches that while Scripture presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, individuals with same-sex attraction must be accepted with respect, compassion and sensitivity It’s disrespectful to not only use terms and names that don’t use, but ones they reject. (Similar to the reason we no longer use terms like “negro”.)

How are we to lead our LGBT brothers and sisters to truth and chastity if we put so many doors between us and those we are called to witness to?

There is no group that is as marginalized in the Catholic Church as LGBT Catholics. Many out LGBT people feel like they are being pushed away from their own Church (and yes, the Catholic Church is just as much their Church as it is to any baptized Catholic) because of intolerance, homophobia and a lack of will for open dialog. Instead, we should be listening to them and trying to inculcate what Pope Francis calls a “culture of encounter.”
 
anikins said:
There is no group that is as marginalized in the Catholic Church as LGBT Catholics. Many out LGBT people feel like they are being pushed away from their own Church
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What is the mechanism of marginalization you see / they experience?
 
That’s not what I said. Compassion and grace should motivate us to more successfully lead our LGBT brothers and sisters to their called life of chastity. Same sex marriage within the Church is not possible.
 
anikins said:
Compassion and grace should motivate us to more successfully lead our LGBT brothers and sisters to their called life of chastity.
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OK. Would you agree that that would seem to be another reason not to support the idea that SSM is a good thing? To do otherwise would be in contradiction to your point, would it not?
 
The wording in your questions are unclear so I apologize if this doesn’t answer your question but as I said, intolerance, homophobia and a lack of will for open dialog is pushes our LGBT brothers and sisters away from their Church.

As for you other question, same sex marriage within the church is impossible. Are you talking about legal marriage? That is legal in many countries, and while we Catholics should disagree with it, it would be more fruitful if we Catholics would spend as much effort bringing LGBT individuals into the fold as we do trying to reverse legal marriage. Do you believe that removing the option for same sex marriage is as a successful way to witness as leading them to a life of truth within the Church? In the perfect scenario, legal same sex marriage wouldn’t exist not because of opposition, but because of the lack of interest by all faithful followers of Christ.
 
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