San Diego bishop calls for a practical ‘apology’ to L.G.B.T. Catholics

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Lion_IRC said:
Excuse me ?:mad:
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The way I’ve seen people interact with gay Catholics seems like a way designed to further self loathing and hatred. When people have been convinced that they are incapable of being loved or loving someone else we have seriously failed.
 
Joie_de_Vivre said:
For a while I wondered if Voris was a repressed gay man and then I found out he happens to have “repented of his past which included sins of a homosexual nature”.
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Which isn’t totally uncommon. I’ve found over the years that some of the most vehemently anti-gay voices, come from people who struggle with/reject their own homosexual desires. Almost as if they attack other homosexuals because if they can’t act on their natural desires no one else can either.
 
Joie_de_Vivre said:
So if self hatred was the cause do you think we should stop interacting with parishioners in a way that fosters intense self hatred or should we go for broke and cause another Orlando shooting this time by a Christian?

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What are you trying to say in your question? In what way does not interacting with parishioners foster self hatred that may cause Christians to shoot gays in a bar? Also, I never said self-hated was the cause, the cause of the shooting may be guilt over something he knew to be wrong. He was mentally ill at the time, and any reason could have made him want to shoot people.
 
edwest2 said:
My question: How are LGBT Catholics excluded from the life of the Church?

There is no Catholic Church with a person who asks for your sexual orientation before you go in. And a practical observation: there is no way to tell if someone is gay or lesbian. None.

Everyone is welcome at Mass. Everyone.

God bless,
Ed
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Correct. This is pandering to the current age which is always dangerous. The Church is open to all Sinners which is all of us.

If we want to start apologizing, how about including people who are offended by homilies which ignore political sensitives and lean towards secular ideologies? For example lecturing people about immigration or climate change without any adherence to charity. In the former case, talking about the economic benefits…during Mass!!!

This is all politically motivated and irrespective of the intentions, it will destroy the Church. I’m sick of explaining the obvious. Not to you but to the people who want the Church to be specific and play the divide and conquer game that politicians of all types use. For clarity if a homily’s content started praising controlled immigration and security, I’d have been just as annoyed. This divisive issue is the same thing. It’s playing a contemporary political game, bowing to a media which despises our faith with boundless passion.
Let’s do the right thing and ignore it and welcome everyone to the Church and gradually enable them to receive the Blessed Sacrament by a process of reconciliation and above all, an education grounded in Logos.
 
Padres1969 said:
Which isn’t totally uncommon. I’ve found over the years that some of the most vehemently anti-gay voices, come from people who struggle with/reject their own homosexual desires. Almost as if they attack other homosexuals because if they can’t act on their natural desires no one else can either.
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Homosexual desires aren’t natural. They are intrinsically disordered. Please do not promote the falsehood that they are natural, good, healthy, holy, or compatible with a Christian life.
 
zz912 said:
Homosexual desires aren’t natural. They are intrinsically disordered. Please do not promote the falsehood that they are natural, good, healthy, holy, or compatible with a Christian life.
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I disagree. My marriage is natural, good, healthy and my husband is Christian. 🙂
 
Padres1969 said:
Which isn’t totally uncommon. I’ve found over the years that some of the most vehemently anti-gay voices, come from people who struggle with/reject their own homosexual desires. Almost as if they attack other homosexuals because if they can’t act on their natural desires no one else can either.
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Perhaps it is more likely that they have had their eyes opened in a spiritual sense and now want to help others also open their eyes. A reformed hooker often has the strongest voice regarding staying away from the horrors of prostitution.

Why must we seemingly never take people at face value–by this, I am saying, many people do live lives steeped in various grave sins, and then one day God finds a way to crack through their hardened defenses, and they become a new person in Christ. That is, after all, at the center of the Gospel, becoming a new person in Christ–that is a literal transformation, not just a fable or myth.

Many great saints were not so great before their conversions.
 
irishpatrick said:
**Perhaps it is more likely that they have had their eyes opened in a spiritual sense and now want to help others also open their eyes. **A reformed hooker often has the strongest voice regarding staying away from the horrors of prostitution.

Why must we seemingly never take people at face value–by this, I am saying, many people do live lives steeped in various grave sins, and then one day God finds a way to crack through their hardened defenses, and they become a new person in Christ. That is, after all, at the center of the Gospel, becoming a new person in Christ–that is a literal transformation, not just a fable or myth.

Many great saints were not so great before their conversions.
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Call me cynical, but wanting to open the eyes of others on an issue you feel you’ve been transformed on is one thing. Trying to beat others over the head with it smacks of overcompensation. That’s why I don’t take it at face value.
 
Padres1969 said:
Call me cynical, but wanting to open the eyes of others on an issue you feel you’ve been transformed on is one thing. Trying to beat others over the head with it smacks of overcompensation. That’s why I don’t take it at face value.
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Not sure how many people beat others over the head. But those who do are wrong.

The point is, many people assume that people who once struggled over various sins are angry–it does not seem to occur to those people that some are just fully converted away from their sinful acts.
 
irishpatrick said:
Not sure how many people beat others over the head. But those who do are wrong.

The point is, many people assume that people who once struggled over various sins are angry–it does not seem to occur to those people that some are just fully converted away from their sinful acts.
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It’s certainly possible they are, but then why are they so angry? I mean you can’t tell me Voris doesn’t come off as incredibly angry when homosexual issues are at hand.
 
TMC said:
What an extraordinarily rude comment. In particular, how can you say that his husband is not a Christian?
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It’s not rude, it’s presenting the truth without rancor nor insult. The objective truth is homosexual desires are intrinsically disordered, and they can never be natural, good nor healthy. As for his homosexual partner (he is not a husband), while he remains a Christian by his baptism (assuming he is baptized), he is not living as a Christian nor according to the Christian faith.

None of what I’ve just said should be the least bit surprising to read on a Catholic message board or hear from a Catholic.
 
zz912 said:
It’s not rude, it’s presenting the truth without rancor nor insult. The objective truth is homosexual desires are intrinsically disordered, and they can never be natural, good nor healthy. As for his homosexual partner (he is not a husband), while he remains a Christian by his baptism (assuming he is baptized), he is not living as a Christian nor according to the Christian faith.

None of what I’ve just said should be the least bit surprising to read on a Catholic message board or hear from a Catholic.
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It is very rude and inappropriate. You can express your opinion, but opinions are subjective, not objective. My opinion is that is inaccurate, and rude, to deny that his husband is a husband or that he is a Christian. Christianity is not so narrow as you seem to believe. Certainly it is not limited to those that agree with you on every issue.
 
zz912 said:
It’s not rude, it’s presenting the truth without rancor nor insult. The objective truth is homosexual desires are intrinsically disordered, and they can never be natural, good nor healthy. As for his homosexual partner (he is not a husband), while he remains a Christian by his baptism (assuming he is baptized), he is not living as a Christian nor according to the Christian faith.

None of what I’ve just said should be the least bit surprising to read on a Catholic message board or hear from a Catholic.
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He is my husband, he is Christian, and yes it was very rude the way you presented your so called “truth”, which is an opinion like my own.
 
TMC said:
It is very rude and inappropriate. You can express your opinion, but opinions are subjective, not objective. My opinion is that is inaccurate, and rude, to deny that his husband is a husband or that he is a Christian. Christianity is not so narrow as you seem to believe. Certainly it is not limited to those that agree with you on every issue.
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Thank you for the support and empathy, it goes a long way and I sincerely appreciate it.
 
Strydersroom said:
He is my husband, he is Christian, and yes it was very rude the way you presented your so called “truth”, which is an opinion like my own.
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What about the words in the Bible? Do you believe the Bible speaks Christian “truth”?

Hebrews 13:4

13:4 Let marriage be honored among all and the marriage bed be kept undefiled, for God will judge the immoral and adulterers.

Corinthians 1:6-10

6:10 Do you not know that the unjust will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers nor practicing homosexuals nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God.

1 John 3:7-8

3:7 Children, let no one deceive you: The person who acts in righteousness is righteous, just as he is righteous.

3:8 Whoever sins belongs to the devil, because the devil sinned from the beginning. Indeed the Son of God was revealed to destroy the works of the devil.

If Christianity is based on Christian teachings, how can we ignore the first teachings as they were recorded in the Bible and pretend they do not exist? I think we are deceiving ourselves if we do not acknowledge the truth as it was first revealed and spoken to us by the the first followers of Christ.
 
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Please charitably discuss the issues, not other members nor their families
 
Strydersroom said:
I disagree. My marriage is natural, good, healthy and my husband is Christian. 🙂
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If you don’t mind my asking what denomination is your husband?

As for practical apology, I am glad to see my local Catholic bishop taking a lead on this issue. I know from talking to people that his outreach to the gay community in San Diego has been appreciated.
 
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