San Diego bishop calls for a practical ‘apology’ to L.G.B.T. Catholics

[JB_Brother_4446]

I think, frankly, that the two quotes from Benedict are both more eloquent and carry far more weight than any commentary I could add. I think he expresses the reality very well.

At this point, it is pretty predictable what the pope will say. And frankly, a lot of people on this forum have been saying the media construes his views. *This has happened way too often. * Pope Francis needs to learn prudence and try not to make statements like this.

 

[Don_Ruggero]

At this point, it is pretty predictable what the pope will say. And frankly, a lot of people on this forum have been saying the media construes his views. *This has happened way too often. * Pope Francis needs to learn prudence and try not to make statements like this.

I don’t understand the juxtaposition of the quote from me about Pope Benedict with your statement about Pope Francis.

The significance of what you are trying to convey is lost to me.

 

[Siegehammer]

A meaningful apology is one that communicates what I call the three R’s–regret, responsibility, and remedy.
A practical apology is a statement of regret for having caused inconvenience, hurt or damage.

A practical apology includes an expression of empathy toward the other, including an acknowledgement of the inconvenience, hurt, or damage that we have caused. Having empathy for the one we’ve inconvenienced, hurt or damaged is the most important part of an apology. When we truly have empathy the other will feel it, our apology will wash over the other like a healing balm.

On the other hand, if you don’t have empathy your apology will sound and feel empty.

A practical apology means not blaming anyone else for what we did and not making excuses for our actions. Instead, when we make a practical apology we accept full responsibility for what we did and for the consequences of our words, thoughts, and actions.

A practical apology includes statement of our willingness to take action to remedy the inconvenience, hurt, or damage we have caused either by promising to not repeat our action, promising to work toward not making the same mistake again, making a statement as to how we are going to remedy the situation, or by making restitution for the damage we caused.

An apology that’s anything less is perceived as inauthentic and meaningless and does nothing to repair the inconvenience, hurt, and damage we have caused the other.

 

[JB_Brother_4446]

I don’t understand the juxtaposition of the quote from me about Pope Benedict with your statement about Pope Francis.

The significance of what you are trying to convey is lost to me.

Oh. Sorry. Just commenting about this thread.

 

[djames99]

Good question. The answer is that verifiable proof must be made that confirms the person committed the act of HS. Most would say that sharing the bed with SS person for a considerable time, and living arrangements, meets that proof. Information coming from the confessional doesn’t count, nor is the priest permitted to act on the information. It must come from exterior and verifiable sources. Today, this is not difficult, has society(sinfully) recommends these people “come out”. They find instead of the open arms waiting, they are ostracized. The act must be proven.

The community is to shun them (1Cor 5:11) until they repent and make a lifestyle change.

I think it’s best to bring this up at this time as it’s related. This brings into the issue the very delicate procedure of admonishment. Catholics are to discreetly take the person aside to state he has witnessed the subject carrying out an act of perceived wrong. He doesn’t need to be accurate, but should be almost positive. He should not be relaying a rumor. The observer’s responsibility over, it still includes discretion and secrecy. The subject does not take the talk as an affront nor does he carry any grudges, and is thankful because it was done out of consideration of the subject.

Note how this process has a family ring to it, and we are Family. There is no crack for the wedge of scandal to enter.

Everyone is welcome at mass, but does not mean that everyone can partake of the fruits of the mass.

 

[estesbob]

A meaningful apology is one that communicates what I call the three R’s–regret, responsibility, and remedy.
A practical apology is a statement of regret for having caused inconvenience, hurt or damage.

A practical apology includes an expression of empathy toward the other, including an acknowledgement of the inconvenience, hurt, or damage that we have caused. Having empathy for the one we’ve inconvenienced, hurt or damaged is the most important part of an apology. When we truly have empathy the other will feel it, our apology will wash over the other like a healing balm.

On the other hand, if you don’t have empathy your apology will sound and feel empty.

A practical apology means not blaming anyone else for what we did and not making excuses for our actions. Instead, when we make a practical apology we accept full responsibility for what we did and for the consequences of our words, thoughts, and actions.

A practical apology includes statement of our willingness to take action to remedy the inconvenience, hurt, or damage we have caused either by promising to not repeat our action, promising to work toward not making the same mistake again, making a statement as to how we are going to remedy the situation, or by making restitution for the damage we caused.

An apology that’s anything less is perceived as inauthentic and meaningless and does nothing to repair the inconvenience, hurt, and damage we have caused the other.

I am still at a loss as to just to whom I am to apologize to and what I am to apologize for .

 

[shockerfan]

I am still at a loss as to just to whom I am to apologize to and what I am to apologize for .

The lack of a direct answer to this question from the apology advocates is interesting

 

[estesbob]

The lack of a direct answer to this question from the apology advocates is interesting

Just asked it in another thread where we admonished to follow the direction of the Pope. I suspect crickets will ensue.

 

[Strydersroom]

Just asked it in another thread where we admonished to follow the direction of the Pope. I suspect crickets will ensue.

Hello friend. I first think that maybe you should apologize to my friend Candace. She literally burst into tears after reading some of the threads on here, within 10 minutes! In that short time she learned how her “lifestyle” is, and I quote, among other things “Vile, disgusting, EVIL, nauseating, unnatural, disordered” and that she’s somehow forcing her view on Christians. Also, she saw the threads about people agreeing with punishment for sodomy, the responses to my posts about how I will never be really “married” and that I should not have the right to adopt children. And then when I question or disagree with any of the statements I’m literally told “maybe you should get thicker skin.” Chistian persecution complex anyone?

I think that warrants an apology.

and the ironic thing here is people are truly angry and at the very least confused at why the Pope said you should apologize to LGBT.

I am so happy that my children, and yours, will hopefully grow up laughing at all of this and accepting each other 100% gay or straight.

So please, it would be nice to apologize to my friend Candace. She’s a young woman who just happens to be gay and is one of the nicest people I know.

 

[estesbob]

Hello friend. I first think that maybe you should apologize to my friend Candace. She literally burst into tears after reading some of the threads on here, within 10 minutes! In that short time she learned how her “lifestyle” is, and I quote, among other things “Vile, disgusting, EVIL, nauseating, unnatural, disordered” and that she’s somehow forcing her view on Christians. Also, she saw the threads about people agreeing with punishment for sodomy, the responses to my posts about how I will never be really “married” and that I should not have the right to adopt children. And then when I question or disagree with any of the statements I’m literally told “maybe you should get thicker skin.” Chistian persecution complex anyone?

I think that warrants an apology.

and the ironic thing here is people are truly angry and at the very least confused at why the Pope said you should apologize to LGBT.

I am so happy that my children, and yours, will hopefully grow up laughing at all of this and accepting each other 100% gay or straight.

So please, it would be nice to apologize to my friend Candace. She’s a young woman who just happens to be gay and is one of the nicest people I know.

Nice try-but the idea I am to apologize to unknown internet user for things i didn’t say is specious. I am not angry at the Pope-I just honestly want to know who i am supposed to apologize to and for what am I to apologize for. I seriously doubt the Pope is saying anyone who says homosexuality is disordered should apologize since that is the teaching of the Church.

When my Daughter married her girlfriend should I have apologized for not abandoning my faith to affirm their action?

 

[TMC]

Nice try-but the idea I am to apologize to unknown internet user for things i didn’t say is specious. I am not angry at the Pope-I just honestly want to know who i am supposed to apologize to and for what am I to apologize for. I seriously doubt the Pope is saying anyone who says homosexuality is disordered should apologize since that is the teaching of the Church.

When my Daughter married her girlfriend should I have apologized for not abandoning my faith to affirm their action?

You say you are not angry at the Pope, but you have been ridiculing his statement for days now. Are you sure you are not angry?

 

[estesbob]

You say you are not angry at the Pope, but you have been ridiculing his statement for days now. Are you sure you are not angry?

I have not been ridiculing his statement at all. I have been ridiculing the silly interpretation many of those on thew Left have given this statement. We even had a poster stating this comment at a press conference constituted a Papal decree that all Catholics were bound to follow. The Pope says we should apologize to those we have offended. Nothing new there.

 

[shockerfan]

Hello friend. I first think that maybe you should apologize to my friend Candace. She literally burst into tears after reading some of the threads on here, within 10 minutes! In that short time she learned how her “lifestyle” is, and I quote, among other things “Vile, disgusting, EVIL, nauseating, unnatural, disordered” and that she’s somehow forcing her view on Christians. Also, she saw the threads about people agreeing with punishment for sodomy, the responses to my posts about how I will never be really “married” and that I should not have the right to adopt children. And then when I question or disagree with any of the statements I’m literally told “maybe you should get thicker skin.” Chistian persecution complex anyone?

I think that warrants an apology.

and the ironic thing here is people are truly angry and at the very least confused at why the Pope said you should apologize to LGBT.

I am so happy that my children, and yours, will hopefully grow up laughing at all of this and accepting each other 100% gay or straight.

So please, it would be nice to apologize to my friend Candace. She’s a young woman who just happens to be gay and is one of the nicest people I know.

Thank you for this post, and I really appreciate your perspective. I have a question: Blended in with your post are aspects of Church teaching along side of human reaction to homosexuality. If your position is that people should apologize for harshness, rudeness, poor choice of words, or uncharitable comments, then I agree that an apology from the persons saying such things would be in order. If your position is that an apology is due for stating Church teaching or the definition of marriage, then I would disagree that an apology is due, since I don’t think any Catholic, or the Pope, expects to apologize for Church teaching.

I am honestly trying to learn how to appropriately address this subject (and related subjects) in a charitable and truthful way.

 

[TMC]

I have not been ridiculing his statement at all. I have been ridiculing the silly interpretation many of those on thew Left have given this statement. We even had a poster stating this comment at a press conference constituted a Papal decree that all Catholics were bound to follow. The Pope says we should apologize to those we have offended. Nothing new there.

I think no one is answering your question for two reasons. 1. We are not the Pope and 2. it appears (at least to me) that you are not asking a real question but framing your disagreement as a question to call the Pope’s teaching into question. If 2 is untrue, OK, but 1 remains true.

 

[graciew]

I think no one is answering your question for two reasons. 1. We are not the Pope and 2. it appears (at least to me) that you are not asking a real question but framing your disagreement as a question to call the Pope’s teaching into question. If 2 is untrue, OK, but 1 remains true.

I do not think Estesbob is calling the Pope’s words into question…
Sometimes we need time,. Sometimes we get it,Sometimes we do not. And each of us goes through a process inside that only God and each of us know.
To tell you the truth,sometimes it takes time and silence to even understand myself and what is going on inside of me. Does it happen to you?

 

[estesbob]

I think no one is answering your question for two reasons. 1. We are not the Pope and 2. it appears (at least to me) that you are not asking a real question but framing your disagreement as a question to call the Pope’s teaching into question. If 2 is untrue, OK, but 1 remains true.

I am not calling the Popes teaching into to question. I am talking about the twisting of his words to push an agenda.

 

[TMC]

I am not calling the Popes teaching into to question. I am talking about the twisting of his words to push an agenda.

OK, I’m not seeing that. I’m seeing Catholics, including the bishop of San Diego, trying to follow the Pope’s lead.

 

[estesbob]

OK, I’m not seeing that. I’m seeing Catholics, including the bishop of San Diego, trying to follow the Pope’s lead.

So to whom are we to apologize and for what are we to apologize for? My beef is the idea that this is directed at all Catholics when in reality it is directed only at Catholics who have unjustly discriminated against homosexuals in either words or deeds.

Is stating Church teaching offensive? One poster told me I needed to apologize to someone I have never met or even heard of before for stating that homosexuality is disordered.

 

[TMC]

So to whom are we to apologize and for what are we to apologize for? My beef is the idea that this is directed at all Catholics when in reality it is directed only at Catholics who have unjustly discriminated against homosexuals in either words or deeds

I think everyone understands your “beef.” I also think you understand what the Pope is talking about. If you don’t think this particular teaching applies to you, why don’t you just say so and let it go?

 

[OraLabora]

So to whom are we to apologize and for what are we to apologize for? My beef is the idea that this is directed at all Catholics when in reality it is directed only at Catholics who have unjustly discriminated against homosexuals in either words or deeds.

Is stating Church teaching offensive? One poster told me I needed to apologize to someone I have never met or even heard of before for stating that homosexuality is disordered.

Have you ever used a derogatory term for (a) homosexual(s) in polite or less-than-polite conversation? Then you have your answer. I know I have in the past, and I do owe them an apology for it.

Have you ever discriminated against, avoided, or gossiped against a homosexual in the workplace? I know I have in the past, and I do owe them an apology for it.

Have you ever, even in your heart, said “tsk tsk” at a known homosexual going up for communion in church? I know I have and I do owe them an apology for it.

Have you ever gone out of your way to avoid a homosexual simply because (s)he was homosexual? I know I have and I do owe them an apology for it.

Have ever told a homosexual (s)he is damned to go to hell? Well at least this one I am not guilty of, because I’ve always recognized that damning people to hell is part of God’s job description, not mine.

I bet if we really were honest with ourselves, almost every Catholic would be guilty of one or another of these things at least once in their lives, just as almost every Catholic has probably gossiped in their lives.

These are just examples. They are all against the teaching of the Church and at least worth of being brought up in the confessional. If you’ve done none of these things or similar things,
then you have nothing to apologized for and as TMC says, just let it go. If you have committed one of these sins or something similar, well then go out and hug a gay acquaintance, tell him or her you love them, and ask for forgiveness.