San Francisco Approves Gun, Military Recruiting Ban

[ProudArmyWife]

Gun banning - interesting since the criminals follow the law, eh?

Military Recruiting - all for it. If the school permits others to come in, including businesses, colleges and trade schools, they need to permit the recruiters in. Now, if they ban everyone - that could be different.

Odd - they will pass out condoms in schools, but not permit recruiters…

 

[MikeWM]

gilliam:

Not sure how you do recruiting, but around here, you need to go where the young people are to recruit them. They don’t appear by osmosis. And on college and high school campuses you have all kinds of business recruiting, usually at certain days and times. You want to be there at the time and place they recruit to make sure you get your story in.

I see your point - but off the top of my head I don’t recall whether the Armed Forces had stalls at our careers fairs or not when I was at Uni. They certainly weren’t all that prominent. They do a lot of newspaper/magazine/tv/movie advertising, I’m guessing they get most of their recruitment from that.

From my point of view, given the number of reports I’ve read of the way some military recruiters embellish the truth (to be charitable), I think maybe they should clean up their act and then people wouldn’t be so opposed to them.

Mike

 

[gilliam]

MikeWM:

I see your point - but off the top of my head I don’t recall whether the Armed Forces had stalls at our careers fairs or not when I was at Uni. They certainly weren’t all that prominent. They do a lot of newspaper/magazine/tv/movie advertising, I’m guessing they get most of their recruitment from that.

From my point of view, given the number of reports I’ve read of the way some military recruiters embellish the truth (to be charitable), I think maybe they should clean up their act and then people wouldn’t be so opposed to them.

Mike

Air Force and Navy are downsizing. Right now they are not pushing recruitment, so it wouldn’t surprise me to hear that you don’t see them at your career fairs. Also It would depend on what skills they need. That changes over time.

Most recruitment comes from one on one recruitment.

As to stories you might have heard, I would suggest you really look into them before talking about them. Rumors are, well, rumors. You might want to listen to Lt. Gen. Robert Van Antwerp, U.S. Army Commanding Gen., Recruiting & Training, he was on c-span today.

 

[MikeWM]

gilliam:

Air Force and Navy are downsizing. Right now they are not pushing recruitment, so it wouldn’t surprize me to hear that you don’t see them at your career fairs. Also It would depend on what skills they need. That changes over time.

Well, I meant in the UK. I haven’t been to any careers fairs in the US.

Most recruitiment comes from one on one recruitment.

I’m not sure that it true for the UK, I’d suspect it isn’t, but I honestly don’t know.

As to stories you might have heard, I would suggest you really look into them before talking about them. Rumors are, well, rumors.

Of course, but they are quite prevalent rumours. It was even done in Doonesbury! There isn’t anything similar - that I’ve heard about at least - about UK recruiting tactics.

You might want to listen to Lt. Gen. Robert Van Antwerp, U.S. Army Commanding Gen., Recruiting & Training, he was on c-span today.

I may have a look tomorrow if I get bored with other things - though I don’t exactly expect him to be entirely objective about the recruitment process

Mike

 

[contemplative]

gilliam:

And your going to want the US military to help you if you have another earth quake, right?

No
There is the Mouse King and mice army from the NutCracker ballet. They will help rescue.

 

[gilliam]

MikeWM:

Of course, but they are quite prevalent rumours. It was even done in Doonesbury! There isn’t anything similar - that I’ve heard about at least - about UK recruiting tactics.

Doonesbury, by and large, doesn’t know what he is talking about. Sorry to burst any bubbles.

You probably don’t know this, but since my son joined the Army recently we just went through this process. What happens is that a contract is drawn up between the recruit and the Army. Promises that are made by the recruiter must be placed in the contract. If not, the recruiter gets in trouble. Before the recruit signs the contract they read it and make sure it is there. Our Army requires High School graduates and the average age is 19. They know what they are getting into.

[by the way, the Army has lived up to their end of the contract]

I tell you, this is better than what I got when I entered the civilian work force!

 

[MikeWM]

gilliam:

Doonesbury, by and large, doesn’t know what he is talking about. Sorry to burst any bubbles.

Bubbles intact I know Doonesbury is satirical, worry not.

You probably don’t know this, but since my son joined the Army recently we just went through this process. What happens is that a contract is drawn up between the recruit and the Army. Promises that are made by the recruiter must be placed in the contract. If not, the recruiter gets in trouble. Before the recruit signs the contract they read it and make sure it is there.

That sounds fine - but has it always been like that or has this been a recent innovation?

Our Army requires High School graduates and the average age is 19. They know what they are getting into.

I tell you, this is better than what I got when I entered the civilian work force!

Well, yes, but you do have the ability to quit your job. The military is to all intents and purposes a binding commitment, you’d want better safeguards.

Mike

 

[gilliam]

MikeWM:

That sounds fine - but has it always been like that or has this been a recent innovation?

Has been this way since before 9/11 is what I know.

During WWII they promised a lot of Veterans benefits that the Congress didn’t follow up on.

During Vietnam, same.

Today the recruiters only promise what the Congress has committed to.

My son has committed for 3 years. So you are correct there. But I had moved my family to another State and bought a house before it became obvious that I wasn’t getting the management position I had been promised.

 

[MikeWM]

gilliam:

But I had moved my family to another State and bought a house before it became obvious that I wasn’t getting the management position I had been promised.

Oh dear I could start a conversation about my opinion of the level of worker protection in US employment law, but I think I’d better not, at least not in this thread

Mike

 

[gilliam]

MikeWM:

Oh dear I could start a conversation about my opinion of the level of worker protection in US employment law, but I think I’d better not, at least not in this thread

Mike

 

[koda]

catsrus:

For everyone’s edification, there are thousands of human beings living in the San Francisco Bay Area who will be horribly effected and die by another earthquake. We deserve whatever help is available regardless of how SOME people may have voted on a ballot initiative.
According to the article, 58% approved the measure and 42% opposed it.
Who’s going to check the voting records before any earthquake rescue occurs to see who said yay or nay? Or just let all the people suffer and manage the best we can because of a gun ballot?!?
Charity alert!

Agreed! Help in a disaster should not depend on one’s politics regardless of which side of the military recruiting ban they are on (or, for that matter, any other opinion they hold).

 

[gilliam]

koda:

Agreed! Help in a disaster should not depend on one’s politics regardless of which side of the military recruiting ban they are on (or, for that matter, any other opinion they hold).

There ain’t an army unless we can recruit. When you yell HELP! You better pray someone allowed recruiting!

I keep thinking this is really about selfishness. Someone correct me here. Why do I keep thinking that the people of SF want others to help them but they don’t want to contribute because of some misguided sense of superiority? That only fools and the misguided join the Army. But wait! If they need the Army, well, then those misguided fools should hop to it and help them! Sorry, that is the way this whole thing is being presented to me and smells of a class system of morality. Someone correct me here.

 

[AmyS]

catsrus, I understand, that is the problem with living in California in general…

I am lucky to live in a conservative county (although it doesn’t help when voting as a state) I was noticing that San Francisco county voted 80% NO on 73… We have to thank those people for it not passing… UGH… I bet it is frustrating for you.

 

[vern_humphrey]

gilliam:

There ain’t an army unless we can recruit. When you yell HELP! You better pray someone allowed recruiting!

I keep thinking this is really about selfishness. Someone correct me here. Why do I keep thinking that the people of SF want others to help them but they don’t want to contribute because of some misguided sense of superiority? That only fools and the misguided join the Army. But wait! If they need the Army, well, then those misguided fools should hop to it and help them! Sorry, that is the way this whole thing is being presented to me and smells of a class system of morality. Someone correct me here.

I can see it now, the President calls the Mayor of San Francisco, “I understand y’all had an earthquake. I’d like to help, but the Army’s too short of manpower – seems there’s some cities where we aren’t allowded to recruit. So we conserve manpower by helping only those cities whose citizens actually serve. Y’all have a nice day now.”

 

[Fidei_Defensor]

gilliam:

I am not sure the college campuses will enjoy loosing federal funding.

And the gun ban is probably unconstitutional.

The gun ban might be unconstitutional, but the 9th Circuit Court probably won’t lift a finger.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Fidei Defensor:

The gun ban might be unconstitutional, but the 9th Circuit Court probably won’t lift a finger.

Someone needs to ask the 9th Circuit Court (and the Supreme Court) a pointed question – “If the courts will not uphold the Constitution, what will uphold the courts?”

 

[Jeffrey]

That court seems pretty much worthless.
Fidei Defensor:

The gun ban might be unconstitutional, but the 9th Circuit Court probably won’t lift a finger.

 

[Isidore_AK]

Now that SanFran has banned firearms, I’m going to have to start tracking the crime rate in that city just so I can laugh when they reap the whirlwind…

 

[vern_humphrey]

Jeffrey:

That court seems pretty much worthless.

Correction: that court is pro-actively evil.

 

[catsrus]

originally posted by AmyS
I was noticing that San Francisco county voted 80% NO on 73… We have to thank those people for it not passing… UGH… I bet it is frustrating for you.

VERY frustrating!!
It’s so easy for people to lump everyone into a particular catagory and slap a label on them.
Just because I live here (thanks to DH’s job) does NOT mean that I ride with the tide and go with the flow .
Further, there are many Mass attending, conservative Christians here who are just out-shouted. There’s not much one can do about it except live the most Christian life we can - sort of like Lot living in Sodom.
That’s like saying every Iranian is a terrorist because they live in Iran.