San Francisco Archbishop George H. Niederauer addresses recent comments made by House Speaker Nancy Pelosi

[Ender]

I would agree with you there, but I still think the issue is complicated enough to justify the Bishop having a chat with Pelosi before excommunicating her. That’s all I’m trying to say.

Given the publicity surrounding this situation and the storm of protest that will erupt if the archbishop denies her the right to receive communion I am in fact quite pleased to see this process move with deliberation … even if it is agonizingly slow to those of us on the sidelines. If we get to the point where Pelosi is denied communion we will have been well served by this glacial pace because the next hammer to fall will be on (the Catholic VP nominee) who is in exactly the same position and the last thing we should want out of all this is the perception that this is somehow politically motivated. Dotting the I’s and crossing the T’s is really necessary here.

Ender

 

[elts1956]

I still don’t see an “excommunication” on the horizon–especially from Niederhauer. Can anyone here name any famous excommunications of late? I mean a fully launched one, not the kind where you excommunicate yourself by doing this or that.
I don’t think the church wants that kind of publicity.

So why is the Church here, if not to lead and if leading means doing it publically that is what must be done.

 

[elts1956]

I still don’t see an “excommunication” on the horizon–especially from Niederhauer. Can anyone here name any famous excommunications of late? I mean a fully launched one, not the kind where you excommunicate yourself by doing this or that.
I don’t think the church wants that kind of publicity.

In my lifetime I have never heard of an escommunication. When I was a child in Catholic school there was talk of a movie star being escommunicated in Europe, but honestly I don’t know if it ever really happened in the way I understood it as a child. Perhaps there never was officially a public way to excommunicate.

Ingrid Bergman was oustracized (she wasn’t even Catholic) for her marriage to Rossalini. And not just by the Church. A whole different (yea!) public mentality back then.

 

[elts1956]

Having looked at Speaker Pelosis voting record how could anyone
come to any other conclusion other than she wholeheartedly supports taxpayer funded abortions up unitl the moment the childs head fully exits the womb.?

Not many people look at individual voting records of politicians. That is usually why Dems and Repubs vote the party and not the candidate.

 

[Holly3278]

Personally, I don’t know anything about Archbishop George H. Niederauer and I don’t wish to judge him. I think the Christian thing to do would be to give him the benefit of the doubt.

 

[gakroeger]

Personally, I don’t know anything about Archbishop George H. Niederauer and I don’t wish to judge him. I think the Christian thing to do would be to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Of what doubt are you speaking? The Christian thing to do is preach the Gospel.

 

[elgar]

I still don’t see an “excommunication” on the horizon–especially from Niederhauer. Can anyone here name any famous excommunications of late? I mean a fully launched one, not the kind where you excommunicate yourself by doing this or that.
I don’t think the church wants that kind of publicity.

I heard on Catholic radio–I Believe it was Colin Donovan–who said a politician who supports abortion probably can’t be excommunicated on those grounds alone. One has to be complicit to the abortion procedure, either the woman seeking or someone aiding her, or the abortionist. The Church could however excommunicate someone on grounds of heresey if proven. Works for me. Just get the job done!

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

Of what doubt are you speaking? The Christian thing to do is preach the Gospel.

Please do not place yourself in a position of judging whether any bishop preaches the gospel unless you have actually heard all they have to say.
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B

 

[muskieman]

Here is why the bishop of SF needs to not let this dead.

From a reply on a poll: *** What does a girl have to do to get excommunicated?***

Catholic officials keep threatening to excommunicate pro-choice politicians and activists like me. I think they’re bluffing, and canon law is on my side.
By Frances Kissling

Scandalizing of the faithful is a sin and that scandal can come in those that do the act, those that contribute and help with and aid the act through things like legislation, and those that are the guardian of the church that fail to promote a healthy respect for the fundamentals of the church’s teachings.

This is not a multiple choice but is a simple answer…when in doubt chose and defend life…it is always difficult to adhere to Church teaching when you place Christ outside your heart.

 

[rpp]

Here is why the bishop of SF needs to not let this dead.

From a reply on a poll: *** What does a girl have to do to get excommunicated?***

Catholic officials keep threatening to excommunicate pro-choice politicians and activists like me. I think they’re bluffing, and canon law is on my side.
By Frances Kissling

Scandalizing of the faithful is a sin and that scandal can come in those that do the act, those that contribute and help with and aid the act through things like legislation, and those that are the guardian of the church that fail to promote a healthy respect for the fundamentals of the church’s teachings.

This is not a multiple choice but is a simple answer…when in doubt chose and defend life…it is always difficult to adhere to Church teaching when you place Christ outside your heart.

Can you post a link to this article. It looks like it would be interesting.

 

[gakroeger]

Please do not place yourself in a position of judging whether any bishop preaches the gospel unless you have actually heard all they have to say.
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B

Good Morning Deacon Ed

I did not think I was putting myself in a position of judging anyone and I am not sure why you think I was. However, it does cause me to note that you seem to be preaching “tolerance” in most of your posts. Many, like the previous poster seem to want everyone to back off and be silent. Let me quote an another phase from Bishop Chaput’s book;
(Page 146)

“Catholics have the duty not to “tolerate” other people but to love them, which is a much more demanding task. Justice, charity, mercy, courage, wisdom ---- these are Christian virtures; but not tolerance.”

And (page 154)

“God did not put us here to sit out the struggle for the soul of the public square.”

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

I did not think I was putting myself in a position of judging anyone and I am not sure why you think I was. However, it does cause me to note that you seem to be preaching “tolerance” in most of your posts. “God did not put us here to sit out the struggle for the soul of the public square.”

What I am pointing out is that much of what is posted, is hearsay information, which would not even be admitted in a court of law. He said / she said, is a real easy way of coming to a conclusion without having first hand information. It seems that this is especially convenient when speaking of the hierarchy. What I am saying is that unless you have direct first hand information on all the facts involved, it is best to be a bystander and simply pray for those involved. People seem to forget this way too often.
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B

 

[Cristiano]

Good Morning Deacon Ed

I did not think I was putting myself in a position of judging anyone and I am not sure why you think I was. However, it does cause me to note that you seem to be preaching “tolerance” in most of your posts…

Tolerance is a synonym for Fortitude a cardinal virtue. It is not acceptance and the Church often shows tolerance while correcting people. I think that this is what Deacon Ed usually suggests.

 

[maggiemay2u]

Good Morning Deacon Ed

I did not think I was putting myself in a position of judging anyone and I am not sure why you think I was. However, it does cause me to note that you seem to be preaching “tolerance” in most of your posts. Many, like the previous poster seem to want everyone to back off and be silent. Let me quote an another phase from Bishop Chaput’s book;
(Page 146)

“Catholics have the duty not to “tolerate” other people but to love them, which is a much more demanding task. Justice, charity, mercy, courage, wisdom ---- these are Christian virtures; but not tolerance.”

And (page 154)

“God did not put us here to sit out the struggle for the soul of the public square.”

Thank you for the perspective. I was making morning meals for my pets, ruminating over the same post to which you responded.

I couldn’t help but wonder if those in Boston hadn’t been so tolerant of what had to be bantered about in the Archdiocesan offices, or respectful of His Eminence’s action, if we might have been able to end the scourge of the Church that much sooner. The same could be asked of dioceses across the nation.

Archbishop Niederauer has made it very clear he received a lot of mail and calls from across the nation. I think his decision to respond to Madame Speaker, was at least in part, due to the avalanche of mail critical of his perceived laissez faire attitude towards a series of abhorrent incidents.

I hope Catholics don’t let this go. Our bishops need to hear from us, especially when we are congratulating or questioning them on how their statements and decisions help shape the great debates. Our own cardinal, has no problem whatsoever on the topic of illegal immigration, going so far as to tiptoe the legal line. That’s fine, I just wish he would extend the same fire to condemning abortion and anti life politics.

“For evil to triumph requires only that good men do nothing.” E. Burke

 

[rpp]

Tolerance is a synonym for Fortitude a cardinal virtue. It is not acceptance and the Church often shows tolerance while correcting people. I think that this is what Deacon Ed usually suggests.

Incorrect. Fortitude is courage.

The Church does **not **teach that Catholics are to be tolerant. We are not to tolerate error or sin. Quite the contrary, all Catholics, and most particularly our deacons priest and especially our bishops, are **morally obligated **to educate the uninformed and correct the sinner and those i error. Failure to do is, in fact, a sin in itself, the gravity of which depends on the gravity of the sin or error being “tolerated” and our likely influence on the person.

 

[gakroeger]

What I am pointing out is that much of what is posted, is hearsay information, which would not even be admitted in a court of law. He said / she said, is a real easy way of coming to a conclusion without having first hand information. It seems that this is especially convenient when speaking of the hierarchy. What I am saying is that unless you have direct first hand information on all the facts involved, it is best to be a bystander and simply pray for those involved. People seem to forget this way too often.
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B

Dear Deacon Ed

Please do not take offense, however, I feel it necessary to try to clear up a few points.

Who gets to decide what is hearsay? This is a public forum and anything inside the rules of the forum is fair game. And no one, not even Deacon Ed gets to stifle conversation. You are free to determine on your own what you think is hearsay and ignore accordingly. You are even free to state your disagreement. However, you should not try to silence free expression by making false accusations.

My only comment, which I still am at a loss as to why you think it is judgmental, was basically tolerance is not a virtue and Christians are charged with preaching the Gospel.

I believe there is plenty of evidence that Ms. Pelosi is committing Heresy and that there is not sufficient out cry from the Church in San Francisco to ward off the damage that does to the faithful in that and other dioceses; that my friend is not hearsay it is established fact; otherwise this thread would be unnecessary and no one would be posting to it.

 

[Cristiano]

Incorrect. Fortitude is courage.

The Church does **not **teach that Catholics are to be tolerant. We are not to tolerate error or sin. Quite the contrary, all Catholics, and most particularly our deacons priest and especially our bishops, are **morally obligated **to educate the uninformed and correct the sinner and those i error. Failure to do is, in fact, a sin in itself, the gravity of which depends on the gravity of the sin or error being “tolerated” and our likely influence on the person.

Well, I guess that you disagree with my reference to the Webster.

Main Entry:
tol·er·ance Listen to the pronunciation of tolerance
Pronunciation:
\ˈtä-lə-rən(t)s, ˈtäl-rən(t)s\
Function:
noun
Date:
15th century

1: capacity to endure pain or hardship : endurance , fortitude , stamina
…

 

[rpp]

Well, I guess that you disagree with my reference to the Webster.

Main Entry:
tol·er·ance Listen to the pronunciation of tolerance
Pronunciation:
\ˈtä-lə-rən(t)s, ˈtäl-rən(t)s\
Function:
noun
Date:
15th century

1: capacity to endure pain or hardship : endurance , fortitude , stamina
…

The Church does not rely on Webster’s dictionary for it’s definitions. Resorting to this does not help your case.

 

[maggiemay2u]

Well, I guess that you disagree with my reference to the Webster.

Main Entry:
tol·er·ance Listen to the pronunciation of tolerance
Pronunciation:
\ˈtä-lə-rən(t)s, ˈtäl-rən(t)s\
Function:
noun
Date:
15th century

1: capacity to endure pain or hardship : endurance , fortitude , stamina
…

I believe your disagreement of definition is with Archbishop Chaput in his book,* Render to Caesar*, which was referenced:

“Catholics have the duty not to “tolerate” other people but to love them, which is a much more demanding task. Justice, charity, mercy, courage, wisdom ---- these are Christian virtues; but not tolerance.”

 

[Cristiano]

The Church does not rely on Webster’s dictionary for it’s definitions. Resorting to this does not help your case.

Please provide the appropriate Church’s reference for the definition. The other thing that I found was:

*Toleration in general signifies patient forbearance in the presence of an evil which one is unable or unwilling to prevent.

from the Catholic Encyclopedia.*

How much are we able to prevent this kind of evil right now? As I already said the only thing is to work on the correction through education.

I believe your disagreement of definition is with Archbishop Chaput in his book,* Render to Caesar*, which was referenced:

“Catholics have the duty not to “tolerate” other people but to love them, which is a much more demanding task. Justice, charity, mercy, courage, wisdom ---- these are Christian virtues; but not tolerance.”

I think that probably you are right, but again I do not see the definition of tolerance. I was debating what appeared an accusation toward Deacon Ed of promoting acceptance of specific behaviors.