Santa Claus

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If you don’t get it, I guess you don’t get it. I’ll admit that my powers of persuasion are not all that great, although for a believing Catholic the quotations from the Bible and the CCC should have been all the persuasion that was necessary. You will “get it” one of these days; I just hope that what it takes to persuade you isn’ your children’s loss of faith at the realization that their parents had been untruthful.
Okay I’ll admit I’m not the best debater either. BUT I’m going to make one quick note here on where you are majorly mistaken in this part.

My parents taught me, as a child that Santa was real. That he brought my toys and presents. Now, by second grade I had already reasoned that it was my parents, who brought the presents. AND not only that, BUT I didn’t go out and start disputing that God was real, becuase of what my parents told me about Santa. I still held on to my belief in God.

In otherwords, I HAD NO LOSE OF FAITH. And I’m betting you the vast majority of children never did.
 
If you don’t get it, I guess you don’t get it. I’ll admit that my powers of persuasion are not all that great, although for a believing Catholic the quotations from the Bible and the CCC should have been all the persuasion that was necessary. You will “get it” one of these days; I just hope that what it takes to persuade you isn’ your children’s loss of faith at the realization that their parents had been untruthful.
Okay I’ll admit I’m not the best debater either. BUT I’m going to make one quick note here on where you are majorly mistaken in this part.

My parents taught me, as a child that Santa was real. That he brought my toys and presents. Now, by second grade I had already reasoned that it was my parents, who brought the presents. AND not only that, BUT I didn’t go out and start disputing that God was real, becuase of what my parents told me about Santa. I still held on to my belief in God.

In otherwords, I HAD NO LOSE OF FAITH. And I’m betting you the vast majority of children never did.

I’m also going to ask this. Say the Pope comes out, and tells the people of the Church, that “So long, as you make sure that Jesus is the focus of the holiday, there is NOTHING WRONG with telling them Santa is real.” Would you accept his statement? Or no. And I’m not saying just his public opinion on the matter, but him speaking on faith and morals. Would you accept it then?
 
I personally disagree with telling children Santa Claus is real. As others have mentioned, it’s not simply a story that takes place “once upon a time” as fairy tales are. Children are told that Santa is actually real, drives a real sleigh pulled by real reindeer, and really comes into their houses to give them presents.

This is not just a simple lie. It’s full-on deception. Parents do a very good job of duping their kids into believing that Santa is real. They sit on his knee at the mall. They write letters to him. In some parts of the world they can speak to him on the telephone. They leave out milk (or beer, for the Aussies) and cookies for Santa, which are gone in the morning. When children ask sceptical questions about Santa (e.g. ‘How will he get into our house since we don’t have a chimney?’), parents are forced to tell more lies to keep the children believing.

And the fact is, it’s not only Santa that parents deceive their kids about - there’s the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy as well. You know the old adage ‘once bitten, twice shy’ - think about it.

Child: Santa’s not real? What about the Easter Bunny?
Parent: No, he’s not real either.
Child: And the Tooth Fairy?
Parent: She’s also not real.
Child: Well what about God?
Parent: No, God is real.

If children have been deceived three times about imaginary figures, then might it not be possible that they think God is in the same category? Atheists actually refer to God as “Santa Claus for grown-ups”.

As Christians, I believe that we should focus on Christ as the “reason for the season”. Children can be told that we give gifts to each other because the Three Wise Men gave gifts to Jesus Christ, who was God’s ultimate gift to us.

And anyway, why do children have to be told that a fat man in a red suit gives them Christmas presents? Can’t they be equally happy knowing that Mum and Dad are the ones giving them the presents because they love them?

That’s my $0.02, anyway.
 
I personally disagree with telling children Santa Claus is real. As others have mentioned, it’s not simply a story that takes place “once upon a time” as fairy tales are. Children are told that Santa is actually real, drives a real sleigh pulled by real reindeer, and really comes into their houses to give them presents.
He does!
this is not just a simple lie. It’s full-on deception. Parents do a very good job of duping their kids into believing that Santa is real.
We do!
They sit on his knee at the mall.
No, that’s never the real Santa. The real Santa is much too busy supervising his Elves at the North Pole. The ones in the shopping centres are just paid to get buyers into the stores and maybe hand out a few freebies. . Sheeesh.
They write letters to him
.These days you can send him emails. That’s cool!
In some parts of the world they can speak to him on the telephone.
Never heard that one. What’s the number? I have a few questions…
They leave out milk (or beer, for the Aussies) and cookies for Santa, which are gone in the morning.
Yep. He loves the beer.
When children ask sceptical questions about Santa (e.g. ‘How will he get into our house since we don’t have a chimney?’), parents are forced to tell more lies to keep the children believing.
Not true. You tell the truth and say you’ll leave a door unlocked!
And the fact is, it’s not only Santa that parents deceive their kids about - there’s the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy as well. You know the old adage ‘once bitten, twice shy’ - think about it.
Never heard of anyone being “hurt” by any of this. It doesn’t happen the way you seem to think it happens.
Child: Santa’s not real? What about the Easter Bunny?
Parent: No, he’s not real either.
Child: And the Tooth Fairy?
Parent: She’s also not real.
The kids don’t wake up one morning to the sudden realisation that it is all false. They come to a gradual realisation that there are people in the world that carry on the tradition of substituting for the once very real St. Nicholas and that it is a celebration about love and giving, as set by the original saint and it all revolves around the birth of Christ, etc, etc, etc.

By the way, who said the Tooth fairy was a “she”?
Child: Well what about God?
Parent: No, God is real.
Well, it’s like this - no one dresses up as God in the local shopping mall, nor phones Him, nor send him emails, nor leaves a glass or three of beer out for Him. We go to Mass as we have always done, to talk to Him there, etc, etc, etc.
If children have been deceived three times about imaginary figures, then might it not be possible that they think God is in the same category?
No! Because the kids come to a slow realisation of it all. Unless, of course, Santa drinks too much beer before all the wrapping is done and falls over things. :rolleyes:
Atheists actually refer to God as “Santa Claus for grown-ups”.
Atheists will attempt to hang their hat on all sorts of arguments. So what? Who cares…
As Christians, I believe that we should focus on Christ as the “reason for the season”. Children can be told that we give gifts to each other because the Three Wise Men gave gifts to Jesus Christ, who was God’s ultimate gift to us.
No argument. We don’t replace Christ with Santa. Santa is an addendum.
And anyway, why do children have to be told that a fat man in a red suit gives them Christmas presents?
Because the fat man in the red suit is jolly good fun. You should also do a really good Google search for St. Nicholas and the tradition of a ‘Santa’.
Can’t they be equally happy knowing that Mum and Dad are the ones giving them the presents because they love them?
Dunno about the rest of the world, but here they get Mum and Dad presents too. Santa gradually gets phased out.
That’s my $0.02, anyway.
Well, I hope Santa brings you a few more cents! 😉
 
If children have been deceived three times about imaginary figures, then might it not be possible that they think God is in the same category? Atheists actually refer to God as “Santa Claus for grown-ups”.
See post #5.
 
But you are looking at it backwards, as a skeptic. No, Santa teaches us not to be skeptics.

That is one if the points I was trying to make above, by referencing Chesterton’s views on fairy tales. And now zhaneAugustine has given us a wonderful article with a dirt Chesterton quote on the subject, which I will now give:

"“We believed that a certain benevolent person did give us those toys for nothing. And I believe it still. I have merely extended the idea. Then I only wondered who put the toys in the stocking. Now I wonder who put the stockings by the bed, and the bed in the room, and the room in the house, and the house on the planet, and the great planet in the void. Once, I only thanked Santa Claus for a few dollars and crackers. Now, I thank him for stars and street faces, and wine and the great sea…”

You were nit raised as a Catholic, so it may be hard to see the attraction of this logic. I think it is wonderful. By the time kids have figured out Santa, it won’t cause them to doubt God; because they will already accept the reality of the supernatural. Santa helps with that acceptance.
👍 I was seven and a half when I finally realized there was no Santa Claus.
Never hurt my Faith in Jesus and the Catholic Church a bit. As long as children are taught by their Catholic parents that Christmas is about Jesus Birth. Kids aren’t stupid and many times they have a far more simple and sane mind than adults do. There are far greater disappointments in life than finding out there is no Santa.
 
My parents never encouraged or discouraged the idea of Santa Claus but they did emphasize the importance of Christ and the Church.

I remember waking up in the morning to the presents under the tree. My mother is never good at keeping secrets and it wasn’t hard to guess that she bought the gifts when she asked us what she thought about them. And it wasn’t hard guessing which ones were from Dad since he did get the occasional awesome present or the really cheap random item from CVS (that was probably purchased the night before or morning of).

I kinda wished that they would talk about Santa Claus and make some attempt in deluding us. Same with the tooth fairy (I made a big show of putting my baby teeth under my pillow). I really wanted the same experience like the other kids did in my class. I didn’t enjoy pretending that I believed in Santa so I didn’t spoil it for the other kids.

(But that reminds me, my parents never even tried talking about the “birds and the bees” and they still act as though the subject doesn’t exist. I really wonder how they expect us to learn about this… Then again, I am perfectly happy if my parents never give me a talk. )
 
In my experience, yes they do.
And when the time comes, they teach their children about St Nicolas, and in a broader sense, the community if saints, and what that all means.

Its’ about stepping stones, about helping children to really grow and mature in their understanding of truth, of God.

St Nicolas was/is a wonderful man and bishop. We all of a lot we can learn from him.
 
In my experience, yes they do.
And when the time comes, they teach their children about St Nicolas, and in a broader sense, the community if saints, and what that all means.

Its’ about stepping stones, about helping children to really grow and mature in their understanding of truth, of God.

St Nicolas was/is a wonderful man and bishop. We all of a lot we can learn from him.
St Nicholas is indeed a great saint. But if you tell children that St Nicholas travels around the world in a sleigh driven by reindeer and delivers presents to children on Christmas night, then that’s a blatant lie. The Bible says “Thou shalt not live; for** thou speakest lies in the name of the LORD**” (Zechariah 13:3). Wouldn’t telling lies about a saint of God be almost as bad?

By the way, St Nicholas is not synonomous with Santa Claus. St Nicholas was merged with the English Father Christmas to create the modern Santa Claus. Although the two terms are generally synonyms today, they have separate origins.
 
St Nicholas is indeed a great saint. But if you tell children that St Nicholas travels around the world in a sleigh driven by reindeer and delivers presents to children on Christmas night, then that’s a blatant lie. The Bible says “Thou shalt not live; for** thou speakest lies in the name of the LORD**” (Zechariah 13:3). Wouldn’t telling lies about a saint of God be almost as bad?

By the way, St Nicholas is not synonymous with Santa Claus. St Nicholas was merged with the English Father Christmas to create the modern Santa Claus. Although the two terms are generally synonyms today, they have separate origins.
What you say about parents not telling their children that Santa Claus is a lie may be true as you say. However; I think people make a far bigger deal about the Santa situation more than the childhood fantasy aspect implies. Most children stop believing in Santa by the time they reach the age of reason (7 years old) give or take a year. Its up to Catholic parents to take the responsibility to teach their children about Christ’s Birth. The Church can’t do this alone.

Many years ago I drove school bus for seven years with many kindergarten and grades one through three. I wouldn’t ever dreamed of robbing a small young child of their fantasy belief in Santa. Besides it wasn’t my responsibility. As I said before kids learn about disappointments in life soon enough. I just don’t see the big deal. Parents know when its time to break the news.
 
Traumatised?

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

I was around seven when I was finally told although I had many doubts beforehand. I cannot link with Jesus Christ because this was the transition between the Salvation Army and the Catholic Church for me.
 
Traumatised?

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

I was around seven when I was finally told although I had many doubts beforehand. I cannot link with Jesus Christ because this was the transition between the Salvation Army and the Catholic Church for me.
Good for the teacher. “Santa” steals the spotlight from our Lord. It’s His holiday, not ho-ho boy’s
 
have to wade in…

I must admit this whole concept bothered me when we started our family

when our first was an infant we got a centrepiece that was santa kneeling at the crib, bowed down in prayer

we started making sure we had a birthday cake Christmas Day to celebrate Jesus’ birthday to remember why we have this joyous day, and why we express love by giving gifts

at nightime in December we would tell them the story of St Nicholas and you want to know what?

the whole concept of Santa being real or not was never discussed…all 4 figured it out by themselves quite young … and they enjoyed Santa but heard every year the story of the real St Nick and they were never told the saintly Nick now flies around the world and they never asked…

best part of the story is when they were older and things started to change…the lack of Santa Claus didn’t bother them, but the first time Dad forgot to get the birthday cake…I sure caught it then!

so - what side of the fence am I on? I am not really sure, we enjoyed the “spirit of Santa” but never told the kids he was real, I like to think we had the best of both sides!
 
St Nicholas is indeed a great saint. But if you tell children that St Nicholas travels around the world in a sleigh driven by reindeer and delivers presents to children on Christmas night, then that’s a blatant lie. The Bible says “Thou shalt not live; for** thou speakest lies in the name of the LORD**” (Zechariah 13:3). Wouldn’t telling lies about a saint of God be almost as bad?

By the way, St Nicholas is not synonomous with Santa Claus. St Nicholas was merged with the English Father Christmas to create the modern Santa Claus. Although the two terms are generally synonyms today, they have separate origins.
You should go back and look at some of my posts on the subject, especially where I looked through the catechsim and showed what I thought did and DID NOT apply to the danger of lying to children.

And actually No, Saint Nick and Father Christmas aren’t the only two, there are many other stories from around the world that add up to how we Americans and the modern western world know him as.

I encourage you actually to go to a store this season and look for three books on Santa, written as an autobiography for him and his wife. They start off with him as the good saint and move forward. It is excellent for children so they can learn where it all began and the truth of the nature of it. PLUS AT THE END THERE ARE EXCELLENT RECIPES!
 
When I was younger, I and my siblings believed in Santa. We believed in everything- the jolly man in the red suit, the reindeer, the elves, ect. Every Chrstmas morning we’d come down to see our presents left by Santa- complete with a letter. Those letters always contained the reminder that we should enjoy our gifts, but remember what Christmas is truly about. In our house, Santa delivered to us the good news every year that Jesus Christ was born that day, and we should rejoice in his birth. We were told that Jesus always watched us and loved us and we should strive to be our best.
Then one year, I watched the movie Yes Virginia, There is a Santa Claus. When the movie ended I cornered my parents before bed and told them I was pretty sure Santa wasn’t real. They told me that that was correct; it was they who placed our gifts under the tree. I wasn’t even really saddened by this or cared all that much.
Over the years since that night, I have given thought to why it was those particular circumstances that led me to stop believing in Santa. I realized that Santa wasn’t truly a myth- Santa existed in all who gave presents at Christmas. When you buy presents for your children, obviously you’re playing Santa. When you drop some money into the Salvation Army kettle- you’re Santa. Those nice people who went around paying for strangers’ lay aways- they are Santa.
But it’s more than that. Santa is only one night a year. Those people aren’t just Santa Claus, they are also the love of Christ poured out to others. Santa exists for a night- Jesus exists forever. Santa is just one more manifestation of the love of Christ- a story to be sure, but when used properly, a wonderful learning tool for children to understand the love of Jesus. In our case, he actually taught us about Jesus. Santa may not have been real, but his words (more precisely, the words of my father) in his letters were very real. He taught us that he may bring us gifts, and we may give gifts to others, but that God gave us the greatest gift of all- His son. And God gives us that gift everyday, and we celebrate that gift every Christmas.
I have continued this tradition with my children- in fact, I even ask my dad to write Santa’s letters because his writing is so wonderful. So yes, there is a Santa. He exists for me. To my brother, sister, and myself, Santa was wonderful for a few years. But we didn’t just stop believing. We grew out of our belief of Santa because we grew into our faith in God and Jesus. I will believe in Santa until the day I die, because to me, he is more more example of love.
I am glad my parents let me believe, and I wouldn’t take the magic away from my children for anything. But that’s just my personal belief…
 
I just wondered what everyone else does. Is Santa allowed in your home? If yes, how do you explain it? If no, why not?
Yes, we had Santa. My child is a teen now so we are beyond that. And yes, we also had the Easter Bunny.

We also attend Mass Christmas Eve. And we are at the church Thursday, Friday and Saturday for Easter.

There is no question in our house why we have the holidays, Santa and the Easter Bunny were simply a nice addition.
 
Good for the teacher. “Santa” steals the spotlight from our Lord. It’s His holiday, not ho-ho boy’s
Good on ya, mate!

Christmas has become increasingly about Santa. Last year I went to a Christian bookshop to get Christmas cards that were about Christ and His birth. Most of the Christmas cards you buy in regular shops feature Santa/presents/toys etc.

In many ways, Santa has taken over Christmas and made it all about him, rather than Christ. At my church, the priest asked the children what they were looking forward to the most at Christmas, and they said “toys” and “presents”.

I personally think we should kick Santa out of Christmas and make it about Christ.
 
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