Satan Discussion

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“I saw Satan like lightning falling from heaven” (Luke 10:18).

There is a tendency in liberal theology to discount the Devil as a reality. Yet scriptures plainly account for him, both in the OT and the NT, and he is referenced in the Catholic sacrament of Baptism as the arch-enemy.

The philosophy and psychology of the devil is what I’d most like to explore here.
  1. Are Lucifer and Satan one and the same? Why the name change?
  2. What is the essence of Satan’s personality?
  3. Why does he want us to be brought down with him?
  4. How does he achieve this end?
  5. How can we best combat him?
  6. Why did God create Lucifer in the first place?
  7. Why is there devil-worship?
  8. Why is hell forever?
  9. Do you have a favorite quote about the devil or hell?
  10. If there is music in hell, what is the nearest human approach to it?
Pick any question or ask and answer one of your own.
 
“I saw Satan like lightning falling from heaven” (Luke 10:18).

There is a tendency in liberal theology to discount the Devil as a reality. Yet scriptures plainly account for him, both in the OT and the NT, and he is referenced in the Catholic sacrament of Baptism as the arch-enemy.

The philosophy and psychology of the devil is what I’d most like to explore here.
  1. Are Lucifer and Satan one and the same? Why the name change?
  2. What is the essence of Satan’s personality?
  3. Why does he want us to be brought down with him?
  4. How does he achieve this end?
  5. How can we best combat him?
  6. Why did God create Lucifer in the first place?
  7. Why is there devil-worship?
  8. Why is hell forever?
  9. Do you have a favorite quote about the devil or hell?
  10. If there is music in hell, what is the nearest human approach to it?
Pick any question or ask and answer one of your own.
***I will tackle #8 Why is hell forever?

Time is a creation of God. He exists out side of time, as does heaven and hell.

Outside of time, there is no past, no future, only a perpetual now.

So I guess you could say hell is not forever, it is only in the here and now, a perpetual and unending now.***
 
Ok let’s get this thread moving. I answerd simply from my own knowledge and would encourage others to do the same so as to see you level of knowledge in the subject.
“I saw Satan like lightning falling from heaven” (Luke 10:18).

There is a tendency in liberal theology to discount the Devil as a reality. Yet scriptures plainly account for him, both in the OT and the NT, and he is referenced in the Catholic sacrament of Baptism as the arch-enemy.

The philosophy and psychology of the devil is what I’d most like to explore here.
  1. Are Lucifer and Satan one and the same? Why the name change?
    To me, satan is the father of all lies and lucifer his servant.
  2. What is the essence of Satan’s personality?
    Since God is Love, satan is hate.
  3. Why does he want us to be brought down with him?
    In his mind the greatest kingdom will be the one with the greatest number of souls.
  4. How does he achieve this end?
    Through lies and deceit.
  5. How can we best combat him?
    St Peter tells us to stand up to him "Strong in faith!
  6. Why did God create Lucifer in the first place?
    As far as I know, Lucifer is not a title given to any supernatural being. It was a title given to the king of Babylon. Some folk consider it to be a fallen angel so I will consider it under that perception.God didn’t make an evil angel. All angels have free will as we do and can choose good or evil. Those that chose to oppose God, fell from Heaven and exist in this persistent state of hatred against God which we call hell.
  7. Why is there devil-worship?
    Because people fall for his lies and his deceit and his promise of power. Remember that Christ withstood the temptation to bow down and worship satan in return for all the kingdoms of the world. Not all people can withstand this temptation and so worship satan as he askes them to in return for power. What tey don’t remember is that the promise is a lie and therefore deceives humans into personl and eternal ruin.
  8. Why is hell forever?
    Because souls in hell die with a firm hatred of God and with no intention to ever be reconciled to Him. remember God gives all a last minute chance of salvation. Active rejection of this last chance is a persistance in hate.
  9. Do you have a favorite quote about the devil or hell?
    Our Lady of Fatima to the three shepherd children "You have seen hell where the souls of poor sinners go. To save them, God wishes to establish in the world devotion to my Immaculate Heart. If what I say to you is done, many souls will be saved"
  10. If there is music in hell, what is the nearest human approach to it? Noise without structure. Even heavy metal music has structure and so has no bearing on ‘music’ that could be in hell. The lyrics that go with some of it are another thing though…
Pick any question or ask and answer one of your own.
Come on folks see how far you can go in answering the above!
 
***I will tackle #8 Why is hell forever?

Time is a creation of God. He exists out side of time, as does heaven and hell.

Outside of time, there is no past, no future, only a perpetual now.

So I guess you could say hell is not forever, it is only in the here and now, a perpetual and unending now.***
Satan is so self centred, that he causes space or creation to curve around himself, forming a cave in which he is trapped. This warp results in a constraint which is Time, which causes the Inmates of this jail (cave) to move only forward along the time axis. They cannot see the future till they come to it. Also Divine light or knowledge cannot be experienced by the inmates.
This cave or womb made impure by Satan, generates human souls that eventually die. God sends his SON (image, or blueprint) into Mary inside the cave) to help the souls inside the cave to get out. Only those souls that are fertilised or impregnated with the message of divine spirit (WORD) will grow according to the divine plan or blueprint and reach maturity, and would be able to break through the warp, and become free. Others will perish. Those souls that manage to break free and come out of the darkness will be able to see truth ahead, and behind of time, and would become immune to falsehood.
 
“I saw Satan like lightning falling from heaven” (Luke 10:18).

There is a tendency in liberal theology to discount the Devil as a reality. Yet scriptures plainly account for him, both in the OT and the NT, and he is referenced in the Catholic sacrament of Baptism as the arch-enemy.

The philosophy and psychology of the devil is what I’d most like to explore here.
  1. Are Lucifer and Satan one and the same? Why the name change?
There wasn’t a name change. Lucifer is a description applied to a couple different figures in Scripture; it was also applied to Christ in the New Testament. It simply means “Morning Star” or “Day Star”.

Peace and God bless!
 
Fergal

You are certainly enthusiastic on this subject, and I hope your enthusiasm is infectious! :clapping:

I could not find exception to any of your answers.

Here is Chesterton’s view:

“There are two ways of renouncing the devil, and the difference is perhaps the deepest chasm in modern religion. One is to have a horror of him because he is so far off; and the other is to have a horror of him because he is so near.”

And C.S. Lewis:

“In fighting those who serve devils, one always has this on one’s side: their Masters hate them as much as they hate us.”

Chesterton on film at Holy Cross college in Worcester, MA.:

youtube.com/watch?v=K4wUYTMcXBE&feature=related

C.S. Lewis youtube.com/watch?v=FVOdXpFNIKk

youtube.com/watch?v=rMrLI-SOyKE&feature=related
 
“Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, roams about, seeking whom he may devour.” (I Pet. 5:8).

The devil ate of Adam and Eve when they ate of the forbidden fruit. Since eating is the primary metaphor for Satan’s activity, it is interesting that our eating of the Eucharist is the primary antidote to the devil’s bite in our flesh. The more we eat of Christ, the less the devil must want to eat of us? Unless he can succeed in tempting us to eat unworthily!
 
There wasn’t a name change. Lucifer is a description applied to a couple different figures in Scripture; it was also applied to Christ in the New Testament. It simply means “Morning Star” or “Day Star”.
Lucifer means the bearer of light, and is the name of the pagan roman God who was worshiped along with a Godess. They were commonly refered to as the Lord and Lady.
 
“Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, roams about, seeking whom he may devour.” (I Pet. 5:8).

The devil ate of Adam and Eve when they ate of the forbidden fruit. Since eating is the primary metaphor for Satan’s activity, it is interesting that our eating of the Eucharist is the primary antidote to the devil’s bite in our flesh. The more we eat of Christ, the less the devil must want to eat of us? Unless he can succeed in tempting us to eat unworthily!
I saw a program on TV in which JD Jakes asked the question, “What did Eve eat?” The answer is “a lie.” Everything fit into Catholic teaching including how men and women started seeing one another after the sin. A lie can only be countered with the truth.
Lucifer means the bearer of light, and is the name of the pagan roman God who was worshiped along with a Godess. They were commonly refered to as the Lord and Lady.
Lucifer, as the bearer of light, was very close to God. Satan means adversary, which is what he became when he rebelled against God’s sovereignty.
 
“I saw Satan like lightning falling from heaven” (Luke 10:18).

There is a tendency in liberal theology to discount the Devil as a reality. Yet scriptures plainly account for him, both in the OT and the NT, and he is referenced in the Catholic sacrament of Baptism as the arch-enemy.
You are aware that liberalism is a political philosophy, right? It has nothing to do with theology. But you, of course, will ignore this fact, because tossing around labels is fun (Edited).
  1. What is the essence of Satan’s personality?
To me, Lucifer represents our “id” (see Freud). His personality is much like ours except that it’s unrefined; it ignores all external obstacles. It is not seasoned by morals or reverence, it just pursues what it craves. It is important to note that, in general, we crave much of what Lucifer did.
  1. Why does he want us to be brought down with him?
Why do you want pro-choicers to become pro-lifers? He feels that he’s right, so he wants others to agree.
  1. Why is there devil-worship?
Now I am confused. What devil-worship? People who claim to worship Satan or Lucifer do not worship the same entity portrayed in your Bible.

I’ve been thinking about the similarities between the characteristics of God and Satan, and it is my personal opinion that, if Satan had been the one who was more powerful than God, things would have ended up exactly the same. They both have the same kind of arrogance.
 
“I saw Satan like lightning falling from heaven” (Luke 10:18).

There is a tendency in liberal theology to discount the Devil as a reality. Yet scriptures plainly account for him, both in the OT and the NT, and he is referenced in the Catholic sacrament of Baptism as the arch-enemy.

The philosophy and psychology of the devil is what I’d most like to explore here.
  1. Are Lucifer and Satan one and the same? Why the name change?
  2. What is the essence of Satan’s personality?
  3. Why does he want us to be brought down with him?
  4. How does he achieve this end?
  5. How can we best combat him?
  6. Why did God create Lucifer in the first place?
  7. Why is there devil-worship?
  8. Why is hell forever?
  9. Do you have a favorite quote about the devil or hell?
  10. If there is music in hell, what is the nearest human approach to it?
Pick any question or ask and answer one of your own.
My question is this: Should we pray for Satan, asking God to give him a second chance.
 
My question is this: Should we pray for Satan, asking God to give him a second chance.
I read a book many years ago. It was a collection of stories about changed lives. Satan, in the last story refused this opportunity. I wish I could remember the name of the book.
 
I read a book many years ago. It was a collection of stories about changed lives. Satan, in the last story refused this opportunity. I wish I could remember the name of the book.
I “played ghosthunter” for a few years. I’m convinced that all “ghosts” who react to the presence of a person are controlled by demons. That conclusion is based on experience. Aftere an initial bad experience, I never talked to the things. (Communication energizes them.) I used to “shut down” the things I heard knocking in the walls in the houses I visited with simple mental prayer. With a little more prayer you can drive them out of the house. It sounds like distant cannonfire, when they leave. The whole house siezes.

The most effective prayer I used to pray, to get rid of them, was a prayer of love, asking God to have mercy on them, giving them a second chance. Phhht. In seconds, they were gone.

There is no lie, here.
 
You are aware that liberalism is a political philosophy, right? It has nothing to do with theology. But you, of course, will ignore this fact, because tossing around labels is fun (Edited).
Miriam-Webster dictionary states liberalism thus:

*Pronunciation:
\ˈli-b(ə-)rə-ˌli-zəm\
Function:
noun
Date:
1819

1: the quality or state of being liberal often capitalized : a movement in modern Protestantism emphasizing intellectual liberty and the spiritual and ethical content of Christianity b: a theory in economics emphasizing individual freedom from restraint and usually based on free competition, the self-regulating market, and the gold standard c: a political philosophy based on belief in progress, the essential goodness of the human race, and the autonomy of the individual and standing for the protection of political and civil liberties dcapitalized : the principles and policies of a Liberal party*

Link.

As you can see, it has quite a lot to do with religion.
 
From the Catechism, 395:

“The power of Satan is, nonetheless, not infinite. He is only a creature, powerful from the fact that he is pure spirit, but still a creature. He cannot prevent the building up of God’s reign. Although Satan may act in the world out of hatred for God and his kingdom in Christ Jesus, and although his action may cause grave injuries - of a spiritual nature and, indirectly, even of a physical nature - to each man and to society, the action is permitted by divine providence which with strength and gentleness guides human and cosmic history. It is a great mystery that providence should permit diabolical activity , but ‘we know that in everything God works for good with those who love him.’”

Even HH JP2 was to call the mystery of evil the “mysterium iniquitatis”. I believe we musn’t succumb to the Manichean temptation to grant evil, the Devil, Satan greater power than he has been allowed. Evil and Good are by no means coequal in power. The devil’s number one weapon may be to convince people he does not exist but, I fear, sometimes his second strongest weapon appears to be convincing people that he has more power over us than he has been allotted so that people become obsessed with finding Satan behind every unwanted thought or mistake, forgetting that Christ is more powerful and here with us now.

But the devil remains a mystery. I believe though that our decisions and deeds and beliefs in this life have a direct bearing on that cosmic battle between St. Mike and the fallen angels; that is that somehow, unbeknown to us, we are intertwined in precisely how that cosmic battle unfolds and that we have some bearing on the fallen angels. I do not know. It is just intuition on this point, but it makes more sense to me than believing we are simply pawns lined up by God to be dealt with as if in a gamble between God and the Devil (i.e. God grants Devil so many years of free reign on earth on some sort of cosmic bet). Our choices matter not just here on earth but on the metaphysical level.

How did Satan tempt Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. What was the first temptation: “you shall be as Gods”. This was the same temptation that damned Satan, the desire to be God. And this first temptation can be found on this earth to this day. The first step a Christian sometimes has to argue with the unbeliever is that there is such a thing as “evil”. Having accepted this, the Christian then has to argue that there is no such thing as “Absolute Evil” here as there is “Absolute Goodness” in God. Evil is the lack of or the contortion of Good. Nazism had to take the good let’s say of patriotism and twist it here and there until it became the twisted, sordid ideology it became. Communism had to take the good of equality and break it, twist it into the mutation of Communism. Yet both arose out of the same original temptation: “to be as Gods”. Hitler would often announce of his achievements and his followers: “We are creating gods!”. After the Bolshevik revolution, one of its chief ideologues Lunacharsky simply labeled Communism “God-Building”. Hence, their similar god-like architecture, statues, etc.

This is my small step into this thread. Charlemagne, I’m sorry, my next step is to figure out how to quote selectively and respond and quote and respond in one post. I am off to the back fence to figure out how to do it. Me needs some more education. :confused:
 
I’ve been thinking about the similarities between the characteristics of God and Satan, and it is my personal opinion that, if Satan had been the one who was more powerful than God, things would have ended up exactly the same.
Oh, so you can’t see good vs. evil, o.k. Nice.

Second of all, God was not created, Satan was - by God. I assume you realize this.
 
I “played ghosthunter” for a few years. I’m convinced that all “ghosts” who react to the presence of a person are controlled by demons. That conclusion is based on experience. Aftere an initial bad experience, I never talked to the things. (Communication energizes them.) I used to “shut down” the things I heard knocking in the walls in the houses I visited with simple mental prayer. With a little more prayer you can drive them out of the house. It sounds like distant cannonfire, when they leave. The whole house siezes.

The most effective prayer I used to pray, to get rid of them, was a prayer of love, asking God to have mercy on them, giving them a second chance. Phhht. In seconds, they were gone.

There is no lie, here.
I know the reality of demonic forces. St. Paul tells us to test the spirits. If it is not of God it will not acknowledge Jesus as Lord. As you state, it will not accept God’s mercy.
The most powerful prayer, of course, is the sign of the cross.
Since Lucifer was close to God, he can imitate God’s voice. This is where the gifts of the Holy Spirit can be used, especially the gift of glossalia, allowing the Holy Spirit to pray through me.
There is also the rosary, the scourge of the devil. Keep praying despite the attacks.
 
To me, Lucifer represents our “id” (see Freud). His personality is much like ours except that it’s unrefined; it ignores all external obstacles. It is not seasoned by morals or reverence, it just pursues what it craves. It is important to note that, in general, we crave much of what Lucifer did.
Really? Oreoracle, you crave Murder, War, Bloodshed, Lies, Iniquity, Hatred, Destroying Families, Destroying Love and Benevolence, stealing human souls for destruction. I didn’t know we all were supposed to pursue this, but thanks for the heads-up! 😉

Freud? Really? Freud was like Marx. He discovered one aspect of human existence and made the cardinal error of making his explanation the ONLY explanation for how humans act. Monism. Reductionism to the extreme. You still buy that? I guess you posting on here is just a reflection of your repressed desires.
 
Oreoracle
*
I’ve been thinking about the similarities between the characteristics of God and Satan, and it is my personal opinion that, if Satan had been the one who was more powerful than God, things would have ended up exactly the same. They both have the same kind of arrogance.*

Satan would have died on a cross for our sins? (Edited) :rolleyes:
 
Reading some of your posts, it occurs to me that atheism is the Devil’s favorite philosophy. Not only does atheism remove God from our desires, but it conceals the presence of the Devil and the work he needs to do in our souls to destroy us. The two greatest lies from the Father of Lies?
  1. There is no God.
    Code:
      Ergo:
  2. There is no Devil.
 
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