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jackalriver
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I think that people have taken the whole “devil” thing too far. Its just not logical…
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Blade_and_Blood
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What isn’t logical?
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Auriel
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While I do not agree with the illogical statement I totally expect an atheist to see it as illogical! 
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blacktiger057
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Thank you for trying to educate us, OP!
Just so that we can all make the best use of this topic on the Devil, displaying our views on how wrong we think Satanists are, let us instead look within ourselves. Personally, the Devil is a metaphor for me. The force of the Devil is the ego to me, and that’s the source of all suffering. What egoic patterns do we witness inside ourselves? <little self-reflection
Remember that these things aren’t necessarily good or evil. God is so amazing that good always comes out of any situations we may view as “bad”.
Just so that we can all make the best use of this topic on the Devil, displaying our views on how wrong we think Satanists are, let us instead look within ourselves. Personally, the Devil is a metaphor for me. The force of the Devil is the ego to me, and that’s the source of all suffering. What egoic patterns do we witness inside ourselves? <little self-reflection
Remember that these things aren’t necessarily good or evil. God is so amazing that good always comes out of any situations we may view as “bad”.
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Blade_and_Blood
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A LaVeyan and Modern Satanic concept, I see.Thank you for trying to educate us, OP!
Just so that we can all make the best use of this topic on the Devil, displaying our views on how wrong we think Satanists are, let us instead look within ourselves. Personally, the Devil is a metaphor for me. The force of the Devil is the ego to me, and that’s the source of all suffering. What egoic patterns do we witness inside ourselves? <little self-reflection
Remember that these things aren’t necessarily good or evil. God is so amazing that good always comes out of any situations we may view as “bad”.
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Podo2005
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Doesnt really matter the difference, they all strive towards the same goal: death and destruction.
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Podo2005
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How so?
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Blade_and_Blood
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Not even close… actually, quite the opposite.
I already posted the answer: forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=4920066&postcount=57
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blacktiger057
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Really? Wow, I didn’t know that haha. I have never actually studied Satanism before, but now that you have brought it up I will definately research it more. I love to study religions and philosophies and I incorporate many different traditions and philosophies to make my own. One might consider me as an eclectic Wiccan, but anways…A LaVeyan and Modern Satanic concept, I see.
When I was Catholic, I spoke with my priest about concepts of the Church that I had trouble believing in. Believing that the Devil was an actual angel was one of them. I explained to him my idea of the Devil as a metaphor to the unconsciousness of humanity, and he said that although it was a little different from the way the Church teaches the Devil, it gives people a way to actually use the concept of Satan in their lives as a force of spiritual growth. Which takes us back to the question I asked before…In what ways is the Devil present in you? How can you use the metaphoric concept of the Devil in your life?
Awareness is always the first step towards change:thumbsup:.
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jackalriver
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what i mean is that people need an excuse for why they do the things they do, or they need something to tell their kids to scare them into leading a “christian” lifestyle.
Anytime something wonderful happens, people give God all the credit. When something bad happens, like and tsunami, they call it a natural disaster…
Anytime something wonderful happens, people give God all the credit. When something bad happens, like and tsunami, they call it a natural disaster…
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Blade_and_Blood
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Heh, I have yet to go deeper into the Wiccan religion.
Anyways, to answer your questions as best as I can:
- The Devil can be displayed in a literal sense, where he is blamed for the world’s faults and the faults and sins of mankind-- together and individually. If memory serves me right, a cannibal by the name of Jeffrey Dahmer said “The Devil made me do it.” Someone has to be blamed. Spiritually, everyone has there demons.
- In a metaphoric concept, Satan represents power, freedom, nature, responsibility, individuality, among others.
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Blade_and_Blood
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Not even. When something bad happens, like a tsunami, they call it Satan’s doing.what i mean is that people need an excuse for why they do the things they do, or they need something to tell their kids to scare them into leading a “christian” lifestyle.
Anytime something wonderful happens, people give God all the credit. When something bad happens, like and tsunami, they call it a natural disaster…
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SedesDomi
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Unless it happens to people you don’t like.
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Veritas248
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Blade and Blood, I’ve been meaning to ask you this: What exactly do you mean when you call yourself “Spiritual at heart”? I could say that about myself, but I’d probably be referring to something completely different. “Spiritual at heart” is a very vague descriptor.
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LDNCatholic
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Not me. I call it a natural disaster.
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Mystic_Warrior
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I hope you realize that even your analysis is incomplete and doesn’t encompass all forms of Satanism. You haven’t even acknowledged cultic Satanism, those who prefer the term diabolist, and the varying degrees of each of those groups. Satanism at its core is filled with individuality and advocates the personal journey of the left-hand path. You haven’t mentioned that Luciferians and theistic Satanists use sorcery to achieve their goals either. And that’s a truly distinguishing factor among these groups.Theistic Satanism: Worship of the Christian Devil
LaVeyan Satanism: Worship of one’s own life and the lives of others
Luciferianism: Worship of intelligence and wisdom
Modern Satanism (aka Symbolic Satanism): Agreement and practice of LaVeyan philosophies and customs… usually without the magic. (In a sense, you could say it’s hardcore Atheism/Anti-theism to the utmost extreme!)
Temple of Set: Worship of philosophy and personal improvement (name derived from the Egyptian god, Set). This branch came from LaVeyan Satanism.
Satanic Dabbling: … think of them as non-denomenational. There are several types, and yet none are the “real thing.”
Poster’s Note
Thanks for participating in this thread. Once again, I’m sorry if I offended, intimidated, and/or frightened. I was simply curious, and, for the most part, I was very satisfied with the replies I received from all of you.
Eternally Yours, Blade and Blood
You’re not going to be able to put all Satanists in a room and label them all as “pure” Satanists because there are a wide variety. And getting all of them to agree on matters of doctrine is pretty near impossible. Anyone can do an internet search and get an idea of what these people believe. The question is do you know any personally?
It frankly doesn’t matter what each of these believe. It’s a fact that they are anti-Christian. They freely admit that. Intentionally or unintentionally, they are grouped with those who do not gather with Christ, but scatter the flock of God. This fact compels any Christian, Jew or Muslim to reject their beliefs and practices. They are emissaries of the dark figure who is opposed to God.
Let me share something that I believe you will dismiss and throw aside.
Based on your posts, the vacuum in your heart that used to be filled with Christ will now be filled with whatever else finds a home there. And it will be easily filled with things not of Him. Be careful with your soul. It’s the only one you have.
Peace…
MW
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Mystic_Warrior
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You have much to learn and your arrogance of supposed knowledge about the left-hand path is not well-founded. Satanism at its core is evil because of its stance against God, beliefs and practices, regardless of what it’s adherents do. Christianity, on the other hand, is based on righteousness, love and compassion, regardless of what its adherents do. Satanism, at its core, has defiled the most holy things of God - the souls whom God has created for righteousness.
Peace…
MW
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jackalriver
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so you blame something on satan, no matter how much physical and scientific evidence shows that it would have happened on its own, with or without satan? wheres your evidence?
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Mystic_Warrior
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I’m always amused when atheists discuss theological issues and spiritual beings such as God and Satan. They seem to fight so hard against something they don’t believe in. I figure that if God were a delusion, and I didn’t believe in delusions, why I would spend so much time contemplating Him?
Now, to your points:
Since Satan is a spiritual creature instead of a physical one, it would be quite absurd for me to attempt to provide physical or scientific evidence of such. You should know better and I believe you do.
I don’t know what you mean by “something” that I’m blaming Satan for.
People do bad things - they are responsible, with or without Satan. Although he is a spiritual force in the world, he cannot “make” someone do something by sheer force of will (again, being a spiritual creature that would make sense). You can’t blame a person’s infidelity to their spouse on the Devil. That’s just plain shifting the blame and avoiding responsibility for one’s actions.
But theists postulate (as you know) that there is a physical world and a spiritual world and an interaction present between the two. Atheists do not. It’s that simple. So, you will not be convinced because you are limited to only the physical world you can see. We have the best of both worlds. We know both. And for those who strive for knowledge and understanding to have no knowledge or understanding of both realms, I find deficient and lacking. Truly an incredible phenomena.
I mean no disrespect to you as a person.
Peace…
MW
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Auriel
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Heck, it is hard to even get a group of Christians from the same denomination to agree on everything! :slapfight:
And you are soo correct. There are many styles out there. I happen to know a few personally. I was married to a** “real”** Luciferian for a while. I did not know what he was though. Was quite shocking. The older groups have survived for hundreds of years because it is shrouded in secrecy. You will not spot them, and if you do find out it will not be right away. My ex even occasionally went with his mother to church. Contrary to Hollywood they do not burn or out act demonically when walking into a church.
Some may even attend a church if there is a person they are “targeting” there.
I do on occasion enjoy Blade and Bloods post. And I get what he is trying to say. To a non theistic Satanist we look stupid when we say they all worship something they do not even believe in. And a Wiccan does not even have a “Satan” because Satan is considered a part of the Christian belief system. Now they do have negative things, but not a Satan. So if you are witnessing to one they will think you do not know what your are talking about and dismiss everything you have to say.
And I will give Blade some credit. I do know people in a few occult groups that are out at the lakes in the summer cleaning them and the parks. And run charity drives such as a run food. But they do not let anyone know about their beliefs for fear no one will get involved. That is another reason you will not hear about it. Some groups have gone “green” And most Wiccans were “green” long before it was popular.
But Blade, I agree with this poster, you do not know as much as you think you do. My ex came from a old group that originated from Germany. They have been around for hundreds of years and some claim their roots go back to ancient days. They believe and worship a real Lucifer. They believe that God cheated him. That Lucifer lost the first war with the heavens but will not lose the second. The believe what they are doing is preparing the way for him.
They claimed to have members world wide. One of their signs is a black tree whose roots dug deep into the earth and spread over the entire globe.
They laugh at dabblers. Because they know dabblers risk calling something they know nothing about and may get hurt. The “Powers” demand respect.
If they were to see your post they would also laugh at you. Because you believe what you posted. And that is exactly how they would like it to stay.
And of course you have never seen any proof of really dark rituals. For God’s sake it is not like they post a giant Neon Sign on the side of a road that points…“This way to the Ritual of the Three Powers”. They do not advertise in the community sections of your local newspaper. Participation is not like the dabblers or light level, it is mandatory and they are very active and dedicated. And neither do they only meet on Halloween. That is another Hollywood notion.
I know you have never stumbled on one because of you did you would not be here to post. Unless you were part of it and wanted to spread disinformation.
Personally I think you are a smart dude and have a lot of questions and did not get the answers you needed or ones that made sense. I know what that is like, trust me. Do you feel you are just going through the motions of religion?
I am not Catholic but realize that you are. at least on paper, so I urge you. Find a priest to talk to. And if he brushes you off then it is the wrong priest, Find one who will take you seriously.
And to the atheist poster. I will agree that sometimes bad things just happen in this world because it is the world that we live in. And there are crazy people out there. It is not always some Divine Judgment from God or a Curse from Satan.
Let’s pretend for a second that you are correct. That there is no good or evil, no God or Satan, That the only heaven or hell that exists is here on earth and created by man. I understand how you could think that because my beloved grandfather was an atheist. He talked to me about his thoughts and feeling on his beliefs from the time I was 6 years old. A good man that I respected but believe was wrong.
If you were correct what difference would it make to the person who does believe and worships their concept of evil? What difference would it make to the person murdered in a ritual? it does not make them any less dead. It does not negate the fact that the ritual act was heinous.
I call people like serial killer Richard Ramírez a Psycho-Satanist. Yes, he was crazy. Good and evil existing or not, he killed real people. His brutally slaughtered in the name of Satan.
Another Psycho-Satanist, Jeffrey Dahmer, had hundreds of satanic books confiscated in his apartment when they caught him. And an alter made of human thigh bones. He obviously was not a peaceful non theistic Satanist. I watched one of the last interviews with him before he was killed and the interview with his divorced parents. It was very interesting.
I do not want a flip the script argument that Christians have slaughtered throughout history in the name of God. I know that. It is not the point.
The point is, your belief or non belief does not alter the fact that wicked brutal acts are committed, A wicked bloody act is still evil no matter what label you want to slap on it. And it is evil no matter what religion is behind it.
I am glad another poster put up the link about the Russian satanists. I was looking for that earlier. thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article1692637.ece
Here is a quote:
These kids were crazy but I am sure Satan still enjoyed the human suffering as they cut off private parts, slowly stabbed all four teens 666 times to torment them, burned their flesh, and consumed them. Christians may do many odd things but they do not torture and consume people! Christians do not desecrate the graves of the newly dead, cut out their hearts and eat them either like these kids did. Call it whatever you like. But evil is still evil and those acts are demonically inspired. Even if the idea was their own the first time, trust me, they drew the dark ones just by their act.
One thing I do think is cool about atheists jackalriver. Is that when some do eventually convert, (it can happen
, they have not already been screwed up by some weird cult. Your non-belief has insulated you a bit to some of the weirdness in this world. heheheheAnd Blood and Blade? Dabblers are not the main problem. They are just the ones who got caught. The real underground Luciferians are too smart and well organized for that. There are thousands of people missing without a trace or any logical explanation who are not considered runaways or suicidal. Most will never be found.
Really, the main problem is not having God.
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