Satanism: Do you know the difference?

[Mystic_Warrior]

Heck, it is hard to even get a group of Christians from the same denomination to agree on everything! :slapfight:

Very true, indeed.

And you are soo correct. There are many styles out there. I happen to know a few personally. I was married to a** “real”** Luciferian for a while. I did not know what he was though. Was quite shocking. The older groups have survived for hundreds of years because it is shrouded in secrecy. You will not spot them, and if you do find out it will not be right away. My ex even occasionally went with his mother to church. Contrary to Hollywood they do not burn or out act demonically when walking into a church.

I know some Luciferians. And yes, they have survived hundreds of years and passed down their teachings to their children, just like us Christians do. They are more family oriented than many think. They don’t worship in public. They don’t want people to know who they are. Look at their websites and they will not disclose their membership, not names, not numbers, nothing. They don’t want people to know. They work in all fields of work and are indistinguishable from the rest of society.

Some may even attend a church if there is a person they are “targeting” there.

Yes.

But Blade, I agree with this poster, you do not know as much as you think you do. My ex came from a old group that originated from Germany. They have been around for hundreds of years and some claim their roots go back to ancient days. They believe and worship a real Lucifer. They believe that God cheated him. That Lucifer lost the first war with the heavens but will not lose the second. The believe what they are doing is preparing the way for him.

Funny, the group I know hails from Germany and England. They can actually trace their lineage back a long way. They keep records. Yes, the Luciferians are baffling to me. They take an inverted view of the world. Instead of God being the one most powerful and full of light, they teach that Lucifer is. They indoctrinate their people to believe that God is the evil guy who is a dictator, while Lucifer is the true helper of mankind and wants to help humans take the world back and make it a real utopia, out from under the thumb of God.

They claimed to have members world wide. One of their signs is a black tree whose roots dug deep into the earth and spread over the entire globe.

They do.

They laugh at dabblers. Because they know dabblers risk calling something they know nothing about and may get hurt. The “Powers” demand respect.

Yes.

If they were to see your post they would also laugh at you. Because you believe what you posted. And that is exactly how they would like it to stay.

Yes, deception is of upmost importance. Keep the sheep wandering around with no place to go.

And of course you have never seen any proof of really dark rituals. For God’s sake it is not like they post a giant Neon Sign on the side of a road that points…“This way to the Ritual of the Three Powers”. They do not advertise in the community sections of your local newspaper. Participation is not like the dabblers or light level, it is mandatory and they are very active and dedicated. And neither do they only meet on Halloween. That is another Hollywood notion.

Kind of like the KKK doesn’t advertise their meetings usually. Why would they? They want people on a “need to know” basis. Only if they can bring you into the fold will they share information and it is limited.

I call people like serial killer Richard Ramírez a Psycho-Satanist. Yes, he was crazy. Good and evil existing or not, he killed real people. His brutally slaughtered in the name of Satan.

Yes.

Another Psycho-Satanist, Jeffrey Dahmer, had hundreds of satanic books confiscated in his apartment when they caught him. And an alter made of human thigh bones. He obviously was not a peaceful non theistic Satanist. I watched one of the last interviews with him before he was killed and the interview with his divorced parents. It was very interesting.

Yes.

The point is, your belief or non belief does not alter the fact that wicked brutal acts are committed, A wicked bloody act is still evil no matter what label you want to slap on it. And it is evil no matter what religion is behind it.

Yes.

And Blood and Blade? Dabblers are not the main problem. They are just the ones who got caught. The real underground Luciferians are too smart and well organized for that. There are thousands of people missing without a trace or any logical explanation who are not considered runaways or suicidal. Most will never be found.

Really, the main problem is not having God.

Yes, dabblers are merely an annoyance for the most part. And yes, the real underground Luciferians are smart, well-organized and have enough money to keep up their goals in place. My goodness, we must know the same people Absolutely. They run all kinds of things: drugs, child pornography, child prostitution, and many other rackets to keep the money flowing. I’m glad I’m not the only one who recognizes this.

I clipped parts of your post for brevity. I apologize. I just wanted to highlight and answer the parts that were significant for me.

Thank you very much for posting.

Peace…

MW

 

[Imryl]

You all have no idea what you’re talking about.

None of you have provided any meaningful information beyond what can be found online. Unfortunately most of what you found is nonsense anyway.

 

[SedesDomi]

Funny, the group I know hails from Germany and England. They can actually trace their lineage back a long way. They keep records. Yes, the Luciferians are baffling to me. They take an inverted view of the world. Instead of God being the one most powerful and full of light, they teach that Lucifer is. They indoctrinate their people to believe that God is the evil guy who is a dictator, while Lucifer is the true helper of mankind and wants to help humans take the world back and make it a real utopia, out from under the thumb of God.

What makes God a dictator? Do Luciferians believe that Lucifer created the world?

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

You all have no idea what you’re talking about.

None of you have provided any meaningful information beyond what can be found online. Unfortunately most of what you found is nonsense anyway.

Then by all means enlighten all of us sheep, thou fairest resident CAF diabolist. Your response is empty rhetoric. You’ve not provided any information except to say what’s here is all wrong. How is that helpful? And this coming from a solitary practitioner who has admitted that they know nothing of cultic Satanism. Pot calling the kettle black I’d say.

MW

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

What makes God a dictator?

They believe that He pulls the strings like a puppetmaster who is a narcissist. They think He withholds knowledge and seeks just to keep us under His foot. However, they believe Lucifer is a liberator, giving us knowledge and the ability to make our own utopia, unconstrained by the puppetmaster.

Do Luciferians believe that Lucifer created the world?

As has been said earlier, views are varied. Some say that the Jewish God Yahweh overthrew the true Creator, Lucifer in his quest to enslave mankind and they intend to pave the way for Lucifer to take it back from Him. It really varies from group to group and individual to individual.

I humbly admit that my knowledge is limited. I know what I’ve experienced with Luciferians and cultic Satanists. I cannot speak to the many nuances of these religions. My work is to help people out of these religions, not to learn more about their teachings.

Peace…

MW

 

[Imryl]

Then by all means enlighten all of us sheep, thou fairest resident CAF diabolist. Your response is empty rhetoric. You’ve not provided any information except to say what’s here is all wrong. How is that helpful? And this coming from a solitary practitioner who has admitted that they know nothing of cultic Satanism. Pot calling the kettle black I’d say.

MW

It’s not empty rhetoric. It’s the truth.

It is correct that I do not have experiential knowledge of “cultic” satanism. (Meaning I have not and never will be in a cult.) But that doesn’t mean I don’t know anything about it.

That being said, if someone would like to know the different perspectives I would recommend finding individuals within those organizations rather then an outsider-looking-in perspective.

I certainly wouldn’t take hear-say on a public forum as fact.

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

It’s not empty rhetoric. It’s the truth.

It is correct that I do not have experiential knowledge of “cultic” satanism. (Meaning I have not and never will be in a cult.) But that doesn’t mean I don’t know anything about it.

That being said, if someone would like to know the different perspectives I would recommend finding individuals within those organizations rather then an outsider-looking-in perspective.

I certainly wouldn’t take hear-say as fact.

But you haven’t provided any “truth”. You said simply that everyone is wrong without explaining why and sharing your version of the “truth”. I agree. A person should ask those involved in it. Don’t ask a Baptist about the Catholic faith because they’ll probably get it wrong. I understand that.

I just think it’s arrogant to come say everyone is wrong without explaining why, that’s all. I know that you have first-hand knowledge of the left-hand path. I don’t doubt that at all. Believe me, I don’t doubt it. But neither you nor I know every group of Satanists or Luciferians and their nuanced beliefs.

MW

 

[Blade_and_Blood]

Blade and Blood, I’ve been meaning to ask you this: What exactly do you mean when you call yourself “Spiritual at heart”? I could say that about myself, but I’d probably be referring to something completely different. “Spiritual at heart” is a very vague descriptor.

Being a spiritual person is basically a subtle way of saying “I don’t need religion, and I know it.” As far as God, morals, truth, etc. is concerned in Spirituality, it varies from person to person.

It’s quite the subjective term, however… Only fair to admit that.

Thank you for asking.

 

[Blade_and_Blood]

I hope you realize that even your analysis is incomplete and doesn’t encompass all forms of Satanism. You haven’t even acknowledged cultic Satanism, those who prefer the term diabolist, and the varying degrees of each of those groups. Satanism at its core is filled with individuality and advocates the personal journey of the left-hand path. You haven’t mentioned that Luciferians and theistic Satanists use sorcery to achieve their goals either. And that’s a truly distinguishing factor among these groups.

You’re not going to be able to put all Satanists in a room and label them all as “pure” Satanists because there are a wide variety. And getting all of them to agree on matters of doctrine is pretty near impossible. Anyone can do an internet search and get an idea of what these people believe. The question is do you know any personally?

It frankly doesn’t matter what each of these believe. It’s a fact that they are anti-Christian. They freely admit that. Intentionally or unintentionally, they are grouped with those who do not gather with Christ, but scatter the flock of God. This fact compels any Christian, Jew or Muslim to reject their beliefs and practices. They are emissaries of the dark figure who is opposed to God.

Let me share something that I believe you will dismiss and throw aside.

Based on your posts, the vacuum in your heart that used to be filled with Christ will now be filled with whatever else finds a home there. And it will be easily filled with things not of Him. Be careful with your soul. It’s the only one you have.

Peace…

MW

Thanks for elaborating. It’s only fair to tell you that my answer was merely a vague comparison between the major types.

The vacuum in my heart still has Christ… as a historical figure. I want to be a writer and a religious studies professor, one day; sacrifices must be made.

 

[Veritas248]

Being a spiritual person is basically a subtle way of saying “I don’t need religion, and I know it.” As far as God, morals, truth, etc. is concerned in Spirituality, it varies from person to person.

It’s quite the subjective term, however… Only fair to admit that.

Thank you for asking.

Ah. Well that is completely different from my conception of a spiritual person. I’d envision a spiritual person as one concerned with the matters of the Spirit, rather than the things of the Flesh. Defining terms is sure important. I must say that considering Truth and Morality subjective from person to person is dangerous. Millions of innocent people have been slaughtered because of this type of thinking.

 

[Blade_and_Blood]

Ah. Well that is completely different from my conception of a spiritual person. I’d envision a spiritual person as one concerned with the matters of the Spirit, rather than the things of the Flesh. Defining terms is sure important. I must say that considering Truth and Morality subjective from person to person is dangerous. Millions of innocent people have been slaughtered because of this type of thinking.

If that is my fate, then, so be it.

It would be unfair of me to tell someone they are wrong in what they believe. No two people are the same in beliefs, even within a denomination… if they are, then, I think you encountered a cult. ]

 

[Veritas248]

If that is my fate, then, so be it.

It would be unfair of me to tell someone they are wrong in what they believe. No two people are the same in beliefs, even within a denomination… if they are, then, I think you encountered a cult. ]

You are expressing some serious apathy in that statement.
And when I say because of, I’m referring to people holding such views slaughtering others, not people who hold such views being slaughtered.

 

[Veritas248]

“Everything I have said and done is these last years is relativism, by intuition. From the fact that all ideologies are of equal value, that all ideologies are mere fictions, the modern relativist infers that everybody has the right to create for himself his own ideology, and to attempt to enforce it with all the energy of which he is capable. If relativism signifies contempt for fixed categories, and men who claim to be the bearers of an objective immortal truth, then there is nothing more relativistic than fascism.” —Benito Mussolini

Analyze that quotation and tell me such a line of thinking is beneficial.

 

[SedesDomi]

“Everything I have said and done is these last years is relativism, by intuition. From the fact that all ideologies are of equal value, that all ideologies are mere fictions, the modern relativist infers that everybody has the right to create for himself his own ideology, and to attempt to enforce it with all the energy of which he is capable. If relativism signifies contempt for fixed categories, and men who claim to be the bearers of an objective immortal truth, then there is nothing more relativistic than fascism.” —Benito Mussolini

Analyze that quotation and tell me such a line of thinking is beneficial.

The phrases in bold indicate that Mussolini was not really a relativist. A true relativist would not attempt to ‘enforce’ his own ideology upon others – he or she would, though, certainly try to persuade, e.g., through democratic processes. A true relativist would not have contempt for fixed categories – he or she would, though not assume that such fixed categories are somehow absolute for all time and space. A true relativist would not have contempt for men and women who claim to be the bearers of an objective immortal truth – he or she would, though, like to see evidence for any truth claims and make up his or her own mind about the facticity of such claims.

 

[Blade_and_Blood]

“Everything I have said and done is these last years is relativism, by intuition. From the fact that all ideologies are of equal value, that all ideologies are mere fictions, the modern relativist infers that everybody has the right to create for himself his own ideology, and to attempt to enforce it with all the energy of which he is capable. If relativism signifies contempt for fixed categories, and men who claim to be the bearers of an objective immortal truth, then there is nothing more relativistic than fascism.” —Benito Mussolini

Analyze that quotation and tell me such a line of thinking is beneficial.

Ha! I remember reading that somewhere before…

The one in bold is my favorite. Obviously, Mussolini doesn’t have much sympathy for others and clearly underestimates those in a religion. I’m not that much of an extremist.

Benefits to understanding that people are going to have different views are tolerance, compassion for others, diversity, peace-- okay, I’m getting ahead of myself.

I don’t know why you’d think I’d be on the extremist side. :ehh: Ah, whatever. It’s cool.

 

[Veritas248]

The phrases in bold indicate that Mussolini was not really a relativist. A true relativist would not attempt to ‘enforce’ his own ideology upon others – he or she would, though, certainly try to persuade, e.g., through democratic processes. A true relativist would not have contempt for fixed categories – he or she would, though not assume that such fixed categories are somehow absolute for all time and space. A true relativist would not have contempt for men and women who claim to be the bearers of an objective immortal truth – he or she would, though, like to see evidence for any truth claims and make up his or her own mind about the facticity of such claims.

Maybe he wasn’t a true relativist, but Fascism is a natural progression from it. It would only be a matter of time before a relativist decides that what he or she says is true is true, and that everyone else must agree. Few can stay a true relativist for long, because true relativism requires one to not criticize any system. To them, no system is better or worse than the others. When confronted with atrocities such as the Holocaust or Pol Pot’s killing fields, the relativist has to make a choice: persist in relativistic thought, therefore trivializing the deaths of all those innocent people, or admit that there are some absolutes that were violated by those atrocities. It would take some extreme cruelty to affirm the former.

 

[Veritas248]

Ha! I remember reading that somewhere before…

The one in bold is my favorite. Obviously, Mussolini doesn’t have much sympathy for others and clearly underestimates those in a religion. I’m not that much of an extremist.

Benefits to understanding that people are going to have different views are tolerance, compassion for others, diversity, peace-- okay, I’m getting ahead of myself.

I don’t know why you’d think I’d be on the extremist side. :ehh: Ah, whatever. It’s cool.

I am in no way accusing anyone of being an extremist. I am simply seeing if your philosophy stands up to scrutiny. Consider it a friendly mental exercise.

 

[Blade_and_Blood]

I am in no way accusing anyone of being an extremist. I am simply seeing if your philosophy stands up to scrutiny. Consider it a friendly mental exercise.

Yikes! I posted this thread out of curiosity, not for the sake of being proved.

 

[Veritas248]

Yikes! I posted this thread out of curiosity, not for the sake of being proved.

Obviously you are confused. Let me explain: I had asked you what you meant by “Spiritual at heart”, and you gave me your definition. Now I’m analyzing such a definition. I’m surprised you didn’t figure it out yourself, because you would do the same thing in studying other religions.

 

[Blade_and_Blood]

Obviously you are confused. Let me explain: I had asked you what you meant by “Spiritual at heart”, and you gave me your definition. Now I’m analyzing such a definition. I’m surprised you didn’t figure it out yourself, because you would do the same thing in studying other religions.

Of course I wouldn’t figure it out. I’m only good with analyzing quotes in my English class. I’m only a high school student.

Regardless, thanks for the heads up.