Saudi Child Bride Turned Back Over to 80-Year-Old Husband

[jakasaki]

For a marriage to be valid certain conditions must be met.

~ snip ~ …

The prophet said "the widow and the divorced woman shall not be married until she has consented and the virgin shall not be married until her consent is obtained.

~ snip ~ …

Elwil… what’s interesting is that there is more to the above:

Bukhari

Narrated 'Aisha:
**I said, “O Allah’s Apostle! A virgin feels shy.” He said, “Her consent is (expressed by) her silence.” **(Book #62, Hadith #68)

Narrated 'Aisha:
**I asked the Prophet, “O Allah’s Apostle! Should the women be asked for their consent to their marriage?” He said, “Yes.” I said, “A virgin, if asked, feels shy and keeps quiet.” He said, “Her silence means her consent.” **
(Book #85, Hadith #79)

Narrated Abu Huraira:
**The Prophet said,
“A virgin should not be married till she is asked for her consent;
and the matron should not be married till she is asked whether she agrees to marry or not.”

It was asked,

“O Allah’s Apostle! How will she(the virgin) express her consent?”

He said, “By keeping silent.”

Some people said, “If a virgin is not asked for her consent and she is not married, and then a man, by playing a trick presents two false witnesses that he has married her with her consent and the judge confirms his marriage as a true one, and the husband knows that the witnesses were false ones, then there is no harm for him to consummate his marriage with her and the marriage is regarded as valid.” **

(Book #86, Hadith #98)

Narrated Abu Haraira:
Allah’s Apostle said, “A lady slave should not be given in marriage until she is consulted, and a virgin should not be given in marriage until her permission is granted.” The people said, “How will she express her permission?” The Prophet said, “By keeping silent (when asked her consent).” Some people said, “If a man, by playing a trick, presents two false witnesses before the judge to testify that he has married a matron with her consent and the judge confirms his marriage, and the husband is sure that he has never married her (before), then such a marriage will be considered as a legal one and he may live with her as husband.”
(Book #86, Hadith #100)

Narrated 'Aisha:
Allah’s Apostle said, "It is essential to have the consent of a virgin (for the marriage). I said, “A virgin feels shy.” The Prophet; said, “Her silence means her consent.” Some people said, “If a man falls in love with an orphan slave girl or a virgin and she refuses (him) and then he makes a trick by bringing two false witnesses to testify that he has married her, and then she attains the age of puberty and agrees to marry him and the judge accepts the false witness and the husband knows that the witnesses were false ones, he may consummate his marriage.”
(Book #86, Hadith #101)

searchtruth.com/searchHadith.php?keyword=consent&translator=1&search=1&book=&start=0&records_display=10&search_word=exact

 

[jakasaki]

thank you jakasaki
the fatwa said
The term Mufaakhathah means to have foreplay with the wife in between her thighs.
It is reported in one narration that when the Prophet wanted to enjoy one of his wives who was in menstruation, he would put a piece of cloth on her vagina (i.e. cover it).

i have no problem with that , i think every husband from every religion can enjoy with his wife in between her tights

my request was about proofs that prophet did that with aisha while she was still 6 years old as you suggest

Why then would Aishia clean mohamads “manhood” from his clothes? He was obviously with her was he not?

Was he releasing his “manhood” at his other wifes house and come to Aishia to clean it up?

Enough of this ~

As long is islamic “experts” who issue fatwas and rulings on child brides and how the prophet acted then it’s all real.

 

[elwill]

Elwil… what’s interesting is that there is more to the above:

Bukhari

Narrated 'Aisha:
**I said, “O Allah’s Apostle! A virgin feels shy.” He said, “Her consent is (expressed by) her silence.” ** (Book #62, Hadith #68)

Narrated 'Aisha:
**I asked the Prophet, “O Allah’s Apostle! Should the women be asked for their consent to their marriage?” He said, “Yes.” I said, “A virgin, if asked, feels shy and keeps quiet.” He said, “Her silence means her consent.” **
(Book #85, Hadith #79)

Narrated Abu Huraira:
**The Prophet said,
“A virgin should not be married till she is asked for her consent;
and the matron should not be married till she is asked whether she agrees to marry or not.”

It was asked,

“O Allah’s Apostle! How will she(the virgin) express her consent?”

He said, “By keeping silent.” **

Some people said, “If a virgin is not asked for her consent and she is not married, and then a man, by playing a trick presents two false witnesses that he has married her with her consent and the judge confirms his marriage as a true one, and the husband knows that the witnesses were false ones, then there is no harm for him to consummate his marriage with her and the marriage is regarded as valid.”

(Book #86, Hadith #98)

Narrated Abu Haraira:
Allah’s Apostle said, “A lady slave should not be given in marriage until she is consulted, and a virgin should not be given in marriage until her permission is granted.” The people said, “How will she express her permission?” The Prophet said, "By keeping silent (when asked her consent)." Some people said, “If a man, by playing a trick, presents two false witnesses before the judge to testify that he has married a matron with her consent and the judge confirms his marriage, and the husband is sure that he has never married her (before), then such a marriage will be considered as a legal one and he may live with her as husband.”
(Book #86, Hadith #100)

Narrated 'Aisha:
Allah’s Apostle said, "It is essential to have the consent of a virgin (for the marriage). I said, “A virgin feels shy.” The Prophet; said, "Her silence means her consent." Some people said, “If a man falls in love with an orphan slave girl or a virgin and she refuses (him) and then he makes a trick by bringing two false witnesses to testify that he has married her, and then she attains the age of puberty and agrees to marry him and the judge accepts the false witness and the husband knows that the witnesses were false ones, he may consummate his marriage.”
(Book #86, Hadith #101)

searchtruth.com/searchHadith.php?keyword=consent&translator=1&search=1&book=&start=0&records_display=10&search_word=exact

it’s something normal in our culture , that when the father ask his daughter about her consent and she keep silent out of shyness , so it means that she agree

 

[elwill]

Why then would Aishia clean mohamads “manhood” from his clothes? He was obviously with her was he not?

Was he releasing his “manhood” at his other wifes house and come to Aishia to clean it up?

Enough of this ~

As long is islamic “experts” who issue fatwas and rulings on child brides and how the prophet acted then it’s all real.

i’m not sure , what is that supposed to mean ?
what is that supposed to proof anyway ?
how old aiaha was when she did that ?

 

[Jay53]

no i didn’t mean that permanent committee for islamic is anti_islamic . i think they misquoted the fatwa if it was exist in the first place
i just wonder , if you think that islam watch site have valid informations about muslims beliefs , then why it’s not exist in sites of muslims themselfs !!!

Obviously because they don’t want anything negative toward Islam on their sites.

whether this site have valid information or not for you , it’s not valid for muslims , so study the islam from it as you like but not blaming muslims for knowledge of it , as for it’s not the same knowledge which actual muslims have

although , i think that you are very rational person but i insist that islam-watch site is invalid witness

excellent
as a first step for our discussion give me the fatwa from their site directly instead of second hand writing of islam-watch

another request
can you give me a single reference from a Hadith of Prophet Muhammad that Aisha did indeed get “thighed” ? as for if all the world told me that mohammed (pbuh) thighed aisha while no proofs, references or hadeeth are exist , then i will ignore their allegations

take your time

Sorry, but I’ve completely lost my interest in this thread. At this point, I honestly have no interest in searching through numerous fatwas about what kind of sex is permissable in Islam. If anyone else wants to contact this committee, feel free to do so - I have no intention of going any further with this. My interest in this thread was mainly to protect the innocence of little girls. This 80 year old man obviously thinks he has marital rights with this 10 year old girl. Where did he get this idea and the idea that such actions are sanctioned under Sharia law? Either it is or it isn’t. That is the issue that needs to be addressed. Who is looking out for the interests of this little girl?

 

[jakasaki]

Sorry, but I’ve completely lost my interest in this thread. At this point, I honestly have no interest in searching through numerous fatwas about what kind of sex is permissable in Islam. If anyone else wants to contact this committee, feel free to do so - I have no intention of going any further with this. My interest in this thread was mainly to protect the innocence of little girls. This 80 year old man obviously thinks he has marital rights with this 10 year old girl. Where did he get this idea and the idea that such actions are sanctioned under Sharia law? Either it is or it isn’t. That is the issue that needs to be addressed. Who is looking out for the interests of this little girl?

I’m done with this one as well Jay ~

I hope that his allah takes this 80 year old prune before he has a chance to touch this little child.

 

[Steven_John]

As long is islamic “experts” who issue fatwas and rulings on child brides and how the prophet acted then it’s all real

Please dont be offended but people are slow to learn.

You even put experts in inverted commas but with your words state their rulings as true.

Therefore would you accept the “experts” ruling if they state Christianity is false religion.

if not you accept the “experts” for only what suites you.

DON’T BEAR FALSE WITTINESS
what you bind here will be bound there, bind here on the word of another and there others words will bind you.

I OFFER YOU PEOPLE THIS BECAUSE I LOVE YOU, ITS NOT FOR ISLAM OR CHRISTIANITY BUT FOR YOU THAT YOU STOP SIN.

Qualify your statements to truth and remove your emotions.

 

[josie_L]

Moving the goal posts, Josie. The ‘child’ part of the marriage was about Aisha, not about Mohammad. Therefore the example is about the girls, not the guys.

…and it doesn’t matter what you claim the law allowed; the fact is, as I have just proven, child marriage HAPPENED. It happened often, and nobody had a problem with it.

C’mon, Josie, you lost this one. Learn from it. Get over it.

Concentrate on the real problem, which is child-marriage today; it’s that 10 year old in Saudi-Arabia who was returned to her husband NOW that is the problem, not Mohammad and Aisha, and going on about Mohammad and Aisha is simply playing into the hands of those who want to keep this pernicious practice going. It distracts from the issue.

Child marriage is against the law in India. It still happens. It’s against the law in Niger…it still happens. It’s against the law in most middle eastern nations that are primarily Muslim…it still happens.

Now.

And THAT is what you should be concentrating upon, not some gasping holier than thou
condemnation of a practice that was culturally accepted, and common, at the time it happened.

Whether you or I approve or not.

I’m not conceding anything as I thought you were aware that Mohammed was 53 years of age when he married Aisha, moreover, I’m trying to make you understand that there were restrictions placed by Jews and Christians alike at the time Mohammed claimed to have been called by the Judeo-Christian God.

 

[dianaiad]

I’m not conceding anything as I thought you were aware that Mohammed was 53 years of age when he married Aisha, moreover, I’m trying to make you understand that there were restrictions placed by Jews and Christians alike at the time Mohammed claimed to have been called by the Judeo-Christian God.

:banghead:

 

[Steven_John]

I’m trying to make you understand that there were restrictions placed by Jews and Christians alike at the time Mohammed claimed to have been called by the Judeo-Christian God.

I know this was direct to other poster so forgive me and fob me if i am invasive.

When you say restrictions placed by Jews and Christians are you referring to the Justinian code i would see you as wrong.

I say this because to my understanding these laws were placed on Jews and Christians alike by the Roman rule. I dont doubt that these became cannon but they came from Rome.

As you have stated “Mohammed claimed to have been called by the Judeo-Christian God”.

Now made simple like this, Rome or God.

 

[josie_L]

I know this was direct to other poster so forgive me and fob me if i am invasive.

When you say restrictions placed by Jews and Christians are you referring to the Justinian code i would see you as wrong.

I say this because to my understanding these laws were placed on Jews and Christians alike by the Roman rule. I dont doubt that these became cannon but they came from Rome.

As you have stated “Mohammed claimed to have been called by the Judeo-Christian God”.

Now made simple like this, Rome or God.

I’ll make it very simple, during these times restrictions were placed on marriage, so people obviously understood to an extent that such things has marrying a child under the age of 12 was wrong. Mohammed was dwelling amongst the Jews and even some (albeit possibly heretical) Christians at the time he was called by God, therefore he couldn’t be culturally/religiously ignorant of the practices of Jews or Christians, hence this whole we can’t judge him or this was culturally pervasive cr*p annoys me to no end.

 

[elwill]

well , seems to me about this subject that the father forced her to marry against her will , and that is what i’m argue that it’s illegal marraige in the sight of allah and in the sight of his prophet and in the sight of every pious muslim

i feel sorry more than you for what happened to this innocent girl , don’t think that i confirm this awfull behaviour

 

[Tig]

I haven’t read this whole thread so. My sympathizes are with the kids that have to be married to anyone at their age. It totally amazes me that there are those men who are pedophiles and use religion or invent into a relgion - to get/make approval of their sexual interest in little girls. They are wrong period. And no, I do not see any God, mine or theirs, really approving sex with a little kid. To claim that is so is an excuse to get approval from the Most Holy to approval their nasty bad behavior.

May God bless and help those who cannot protect themselves. And may we all do whatever we can to get the practice outlawed, abandoned, etc. That is IMO doubtful as “they” have pulled God (no matter what time-frame) into the deal with His supposed approval.

 

[Jolly_Joe]

This really points out one of the major differences of Islam. One of the major points of the Bible, God’s Word, is that men are sinners. It is not God saves these people because they are so good, it is these worthless sinners are saved because God is so good.

That gets all flipped with Islam.

Can’t even come right out and admit what a sinner Mohammed was. Even based on the Koran, Mohammed couldn’t admit it either. He’s much like the Pharisee standing on the corner and thanking God he is not like those sinners going to the temple to beg God’s forgiveness.

Mohammed was a sinner, a terrible sinner. If he was actually a prophet, that fact wouldn’t matter, God never spoke through perfect prophets. There weren’t any. The truth does not rely on the prophet it relies on God, but with Islam it relies on the myth of the perfect Mohammed, it relies on the myth of the perfect Koran.

Too bad that Muslims have such a hard time standing up and protecting a 10 year old girl because they fear being accussed for recognizing Mohammed was a sinner.

 

[Steven_John]

Even based on the Koran, Mohammed couldn’t admit it either.

Hi Joe,
i am not a good scholar, i had thought that in the Quran he was instructed or did pray for forgiveness of his sins done and those he was to do.

I am hopeless at searching some times please teach me the verses so i can be in truth.

 

[Booklover]

Sorry, but I’ve completely lost my interest in this thread. At this point, I honestly have no interest in searching through numerous fatwas about what kind of sex is permissable in Islam. If anyone else wants to contact this committee, feel free to do so - I have no intention of going any further with this. My interest in this thread was mainly to protect the innocence of little girls. This 80 year old man obviously thinks he has marital rights with this 10 year old girl. Where did he get this idea and the idea that such actions are sanctioned under Sharia law? Either it is or it isn’t. That is the issue that needs to be addressed. Who is looking out for the interests of this little girl?

This whole thing is utterly disgusting! Muslims won’t look after the interests of that little girl. Muhmmad had sex with a child so ithat makes it “good” and little girls will continue to suffer because of the actions of that wicked man!

 

[Jolly_Joe]

Hi Joe,
i am not a good scholar, i had thought that in the Quran he was instructed or did pray for forgiveness of his sins done and those he was to do.

I am hopeless at searching some times please teach me the verses so i can be in truth.

That’s the big thing Steven, Mohammed clearly was a sinner.

It’s another one of those myths that is routinely taught as being Islam. Myths about the Koran, myths about Mohammed. Yet they are so widely proclaimed and so strongly believed that teaching the truth is going to get one’s life threatened in most Islamic countries so those who know the truth live in submission to false teachers and seem afraid to step up and do something about it.

So you end up with cases like this child where even the government is unwilling or afraid to do anything.

Instead of just listing a couple of things, I would suggest a book where the author has spent time and care to accurately show how Mohammed clearly was, even in Mohammed’s own words, a sinner.

answering-islam.org/Gilchrist/Vol1/index.html

The direct link to that part of the book dealing with the Isma doctrine, that prophets are protected from sin is answering-islam.org/Gilchrist/Vol1/7b.html

It starts right out with the most amazing fact, the doctrine is established against the Koran and the Hadiths.

 

[Steven_John]

That’s the big thing Steven, Mohammed clearly was a sinner.

Instead of just listing a couple of things, I would suggest a book where the author has spent time and care to accurately show how Mohammed clearly was, even in Mohammed’s own words, a sinner.

Strange i say he was a sinner according to the highest authority in Islamic religion and you give me suggest i research how he was a sinner?

How did the spirit guide you to this idea? the spirit knows all of my mind. Are you sure it was me the spirit inspired you to? or maybe you are acting solo.

Bless ya Joe be guided for His is the best of guidance.

 

[elwill]

Strange i say he was a sinner according to the highest authority in Islamic religion and you give me suggest i research how he was a sinner?

How did the spirit guide you to this idea? the spirit knows all of my mind. Are you sure it was me the spirit inspired you to? or maybe you are acting solo.

Bless ya Joe be guided for His is the best of guidance.

mohammed (pbuh) is human being , not God . and yes it’s allowable for him to make mistakes .
when we say that mohammed (pbuh) sinless , so we just means that he never disobeyed god in his life​

one example of mistakes he did , and God blamed him in quran where some group of jews came to asking him some questions as test for his prophethood , so the prophet responded saying
(I will tell you tomorrow about what you have asked me.) but he did not say `If Allah wills"

so because he forgot to say " if allah wills" , the revelation of God with the answers of these questions was delayed for 50 days
anyway when the revelation came to him with the answer by chapter (20) , it said to mohammed (pbuh) in the verse 23 the reasons of this delay
(23. And never say of anything, "I shall do such and such thing tomorrow.’’) (24. Except (with the saying), “If Allah wills!” And remember your Lord when you forget and say: "It may be that my Lord guides me to a nearer way of truth than this.’’)​

another example “The Prophet being reprimanded because He frowned at a Weak Man”

More than one of the scholars of Tafsir mentioned that one day the Messenger of Allah was addressing one of the great leaders of the Quraysh while hoping that he would accept Islam. While he was speaking in direct conversation with him, Ibn Umm Maktum came to him, and he was of those who had accepted Islam in its earliest days. He (Ibn Umm Maktum) then began asking the Messenger of Allah about something, urgently beseeching him. The Prophet hoped that the man would be guided, so he asked Ibn Umm Maktum to wait for a moment so he could complete his conversation. He frowned in the face of Ibn Umm Maktum and turned away from him in order to face the other man. Thus, Allah revealed, in chapter 80

(He frowned and turned away. Because there came to him the blind man. And how can you know that he might become pure) meaning, he may attain purification and cleanliness in his soul.
(Or he might receive admonition, and the admonition might profit him) meaning, he may receive admonition and abstain from the forbidden.
(As for him who thinks himself self-sufficient. To him you attend meaning, you face the rich person so that perhaps he may be guided.' (What does it matter to you if he will not become pure) meaning, you are not responsible for him if he does not attain purification.’
(But as for him who came to you running. And is afraid.) meaning, he is seeking you and he comes to you so that he may be guided by what you say to him.' (Of him you are neglectful and divert your attention to another.) meaning, you are too busy.
’ Here Allah commands His Messenger to not single anyone out with the warning. Rather, he should equal warn the noble and the weak, the poor and the rich, the master and the slave, the men and the women, the young and the old. Then Allah will guide whomever He chooses to a path that is straight.

my last comment , such verses proof to me that the quran isn’t mohammed’s words .

anyway , from the sight of muslims we can just learn from quran how important for us to ask forgiveness with or without commiting the sin
as for God ask his beloved prophet to ask the forgivness , so what should we do
beside , although we knows that quran revealed to mohammed(pbuh) directly but actually it’s massage for every muslim read the quran . as for we read the quran as if it was revealed for us personaly

 

[Jolly_Joe]

Strange i say he was a sinner according to the highest authority in Islamic religion and you give me suggest i research how he was a sinner?

How did the spirit guide you to this idea? the spirit knows all of my mind. Are you sure it was me the spirit inspired you to? or maybe you are acting solo.

Bless ya Joe be guided for His is the best of guidance.

You asked for the specific verses and I gave you a reference that tells of them. Plus, it tells how they are translated. Just listing many of the English translations would likely obscure the meaning for many readers because of the translation.