Saudi Marriage 'Expert' Advises Men in 'Right Way' to Beat Their Wives

[AbeOman]

None of the ‘so-called’ rebuttals to Ali Sina is even plausible.

Kudos, it’s the blind man leading the blind scenario all over again… so stick to your guns…! though would have been lot healthier to do bit of exploration by yourself, it would have been lot more fun and rewarding then taking quotes from someone you can NOT even proof his or own legitimacy…(or you can and if you can please share with me), moreover, I would be wasting my time and yours in discussing such stuff from likes of this person and few others like him when dealing with such important topics as this…personally would NOT even acknowledge such a garbage so unless you have a better source then all these blasphemous stuff on this site (your link)…let’s call quits and who are these faceless anti-Islam people anyway…?

Honestly, I’m not interested to deal with such fools who so ignorant and blinded by hate, it’s their problem to get over it, but I’m prepared and more than be happy to discuss with you all matters related to Islam and Muslims and we can exchange a guinea questions, answers, interests and ideas, imagine me going to anti-catholic site (there are thousands on the net) and using it as a valid source to discredit catholicism, that is really not objective and it’s highly dishonest.
Don’t you agree…?

 

[AbeOman]

The Quran does not differentiate between beating adult as opposed to child wives. It just allows Muslims to beat their wives.

Yes, it does but why not complete the story instead of stopping there or that is what suit your need.
Quran is very clear about the subject of “Beating” as for the other offensive words as child wives, I really have no idea where such thing has crepted into your thinking and I’m not going to waste my time trying to refute it…!

 

[AbeOman]

Jerry, before you quote the Quran willy-nilly please read the biography of Muhammad and the Quran.

Surah 9:29 is very clear - it compels Muslims to persecute Christians, and abrogates anything that was revealed before it.

You are dead wrong and you are the one who’s is cherry picking up the Quran and quoting it willy Nelly, why don’t you quote what is before and after the ayah 29, if your intentions where any valid…?

 

[Rodrigo_Bivar]

You are dead wrong and you are the one who’s is cherry picking up the Quran and quoting it willy Nelly, why don’t you quote what is before and after the ayah 29, if your intentions where any valid…?

I am dead right.

9:28
You, you those who believed but/truly the sharers/takers of partners (with God are) impurity/contamination , so they do not approach/near the Mosque the Forbidden/Sacred after this their year, and if you feared need/necessity/poverty, so God will/shall enrich/suffice you from His grace/favour , if He willed/wanted, that God (is) knowledgeable, wise/judicious.

9:30
And the Jews said: “Ezra (is) God’s son”, and the Christians , said: “The Messiah, (is) God’s son.” That (is) their saying/word/opinion and belief with their mouths, they equal/resemble (the) saying/word/opinion and belief (of) those who disbelieved from before, God fought/killed them, how (do) they be lied to/be turned away?

Do these verses make 9:29 any less hateful? What is the context of 9:29 anyway? It was revealed after Hunain, and Muhammad told Umar to apply it to conquer other countries.

Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 53, Number 386
…
Our Prophet, the Messenger of our Lord, has ordered us to fight you till you worship Allah Alone or give Jizya (i.e. tribute); and our Prophet has informed us that our Lord says:-- “Whoever amongst us is killed (i.e. martyred), shall go to Paradise to lead such a luxurious life as he has never seen, and whoever amongst us remain alive, shall become your master.”
…

This hadith proves Muhammad applied 9:29 to surrounding countries - who didn’t do anything to the Muslims - they didn’t even know who the Muslims were.

Hardly peaceful, is it?

 

[AbeOman]

Sorry but 9:29 trumps that. Muhammad was a hypocrite who said many conflicting things. Despite his ‘mercy’ to the Nazarene Christians, he persecuted Christians using 9:29.

Fight (to kill) all those who do not believe in Allah or the Last day, except if they are Christians and Jews who pay the Jizyah with HUMILIATION.

He persecuted the Christians by making them second-class citizens.

That is in the Quran. End of story.

I say to you my friend, you are the hypocrite here, far from it Prophet Muhammad (PBBUH) IS NOT, as matter of fact, I took the trouble to look up your public profile and to my amazement it shows no religious believe…so why is that you chose to hide what you believe in and decided to attack Islam and Muslims.

That is what I call pure hypocrisy…!

Now let us deal with your missquoted ayah in full and it’'s original context and (STOP telling us this was or has abrogated) what a none sense, now here is the correction,

“O you who believe, the idol worshipers are polluted; they shall not be permitted to approach the Sacred Masjid after this year. If you fear loss of income, GOD will shower you with His provisions, in accordance with His will. GOD is Omniscient, Most Wise”[9:28]

followed by…

“You shall fight back against those who do not believe in GOD, nor in the Last Day, nor do they prohibit what GOD and His messenger have prohibited, nor do they abide by the religion of truth - among those who received the scripture - until they pay the due tax, willingly or unwillingly”[9:29]

Now, where God is instructing the Prophet or Muslims to fight against Christian since clearly they are not Pagan and the Quran never considered them as such or was it your own makeup or you have failed to inform us that you borrowed from folks like that Sina (adultery) guy.

Again, I have seen where you have your interpretation of the Quran when dealing paying “Jizya in humiliation”, where did you get that forum, why not translate the original arabic word and show us all it’s true meaning instead of twisting it.

Listen, I don’t care much of your blind hate of Islam or Muslims just don’t misquote and lie about it. ok

Why wonder why the owners of this forum seem to be oblivous on your clear and baseless attack on Islam…?
This does not do any good for the forum…!

And this is end of your story…!

 

[Rodrigo_Bivar]

Yes, it does but why not complete the story instead of stopping there or that is what suit your need.
Quran is very clear about the subject of “Beating” as for the other offensive words as child wives, I really have no idea where such thing has crepted into your thinking and I’m not going to waste my time trying to refute it…!

Okay - tell us where the Quran limits the ‘beating’ to child wives?

Don’t just tell us it does - show us the words.

 

[Rodrigo_Bivar]

I say to you my friend, you are the hypocrite here, far from it Prophet Muhammad (PBBUH) IS NOT, as matter of fact, I took the trouble to look up your public profile and to my amazement it shows no religious believe…so why is that you chose to hide what you believe in and decided to attack Islam and Muslims.

That is what I call pure hypocrisy…!

Now let us deal with your missquoted ayah in full and it’'s original context and (STOP telling us this was or has abrogated) what a none sense, now here is the correction,

“O you who believe, the idol worshipers are polluted; they shall not be permitted to approach the Sacred Masjid after this year. If you fear loss of income, GOD will shower you with His provisions, in accordance with His will. GOD is Omniscient, Most Wise”[9:28]

followed by…

“You shall fight back against those who do not believe in GOD, nor in the Last Day, nor do they prohibit what GOD and His messenger have prohibited, nor do they abide by the religion of truth - among those who received the scripture - until they pay the due tax, willingly or unwillingly”[9:29]

Now, where God is instructing the Prophet or Muslims to fight against Christian since clearly they are not Pagan and the Quran never considered them as such or was it your own makeup or you have failed to inform us that you borrowed from folks like that Sina (adultery) guy.

Again, I have seen where you have your interpretation of the Quran when dealing paying “Jizya in humiliation”, where did you get that forum, why not translate the original arabic word and show us all it’s true meaning instead of twisting it.

Listen, I don’t care much of your blind hate of Islam or Muslims just don’t misquote and lie about it. ok

Why wonder why the owners of this forum seem to be oblivous on your clear and baseless attack on Islam…?
This does not do any good for the forum…!

And this is end of your story…!

He told Muslims to fight Christians who do not submit to Islamic oppression.

9:29
Fight/kill those who do not believe with God and nor the Day the Last/Resurrection Day, and do not forbid/prohibit what God and His messenger forbid/prohibited, and do not take/adopt a religion the correct/right religion from those who were given/brought The Book , until they give/hand over the fee paid by non-Moslems living in a Moslem society (paid instead of Zakat by Moslems) from a hand, and (while) they are subservient/humiliated .

You only don’t fight the Christians (i.e. People of the Book) if they pay the Jizyah with humiliation.

Well - I say no to oppression. I refuse to pay the jizyah with humiliation. Come and fight me then.

 

[Rodrigo_Bivar]

The word in 9:29 is saghiroona.

This word means humbled, shamed, humiliated, subjected, subjugated.

Tafsir Ibn Kathir
(Fight against those who believe not in Allah, nor in the Last Day) (9:29) until,

﴿وَهُمْ صَـغِرُونَ﴾

(And feel themselves SUBDUED) (9:29).

Tafsir al-Jalalayn
Fight those who do not believe in God, nor in the Last Day, for, otherwise, they would have believed in the Prophet (s), and who do not forbid what God and His Messenger have forbidden, such as wine, nor do they practise the religion of truth, the firm one, the one that abrogated other religions, namely, the religion of Islam — from among of those who (min, ‘from’, explains [the previous] alladhīna, ‘those who’) have been given the Scripture, namely, the Jews and the Christians, until they pay the jizya tribute, the annual tax imposed them, readily (‘an yadin is a circumstantial qualifier, meaning, ‘compliantly’, or ‘by their own hands’, not delegating it [to others to pay]), being SUBDUED, [being made] SUBMISSIVE and COMPLIANT TO THE AUTHORITY OF ISLAM.

Tanwîr al-Miqbâs min Tafsîr Ibn ‘Abbâs
Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture) the Jews and Christians (as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day) nor in the bliss of Paradise, (and forbid not) in the Torah (that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the religion of truth) do not submit themselves to Allah through confession of Allah’s divine Oneness, (until they pay the tribute readily) standing: from hand to hand, (being brought low) ABASED.

Nice huh? You think fighting until you force Christians to pay the Jizyah with humiliation, until they are subdued, submissive and abased is peaceful?

 

[Valke2]

It is always difficult discussing someone else’s religion. There are times when I have been disrespectful, arrogant and narrow minded in my replies to issues involving Islam.

When I do post anything disputing something about Islam or Islamic governments, I am doing so from a position that: a. Each person, mulsim, jew or christian, whatever, is created in God’s image; and b. I believe that a faithful christian, jew or muslim can live a life that is pleasing to God.

If anything I post seems contrary to this position, it is not my intention and I apologize in advance for any such misunderstanding.

 

[AbeOman]

SNIPPED for corrections and clarity:

Do these verses make 9:29 any less hateful? What is the context of 9:29 anyway? It was revealed after Hunain, and Muhammad told Umar to apply it to conquer other countries.

What countries…? what sad fabrications,

This Sura Al Barah deals not with wars but with various issue of one of them is Blasphemies…as in 9:28, I urge you to consider this link for more learning

submission.org/suras/sura9.htm

Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 53, Number 386
…
Our Prophet, the Messenger of our Lord, has ordered us to fight you till you worship Allah Alone or give Jizya (i.e. tribute); and our Prophet has informed us that our Lord says:-- “Whoever amongst us is killed (i.e. martyred), shall go to Paradise to lead such a luxurious life as he has never seen, and whoever amongst us remain alive, shall become your master.”
…

Why involve with Hatidh when we are dealing with Quran, anyway, I will take care of this in a minute…just to show you how much you are wrong…!

This hadith proves Muhammad applied 9:29 to surrounding countries - who didn’t do anything to the Muslims - they didn’t even know who the Muslims were.

That is not true and it does not proof but let me ask you for the last time, where you quoting all these, please share the link with me.

Hardly peaceful, is it?

This is very misleading question, you make mockery of the Quran and then at the end come with this…?

Guess you never learn to stop it…? I’m Arab and good Muslim (Hope so), my knowledge of the Science of the Quran and the Hadith are very acceptable, though I’m not a scholar in either, so let me break it down to you, first I’m applying two standard and acceptable translators of the Quran’s meanings, these are Yusuf Ali and Pickthall. who is your translator and who authentic is it…?

Second, the Ayas in Question, 28 and 29 where dealing specificially the Pagans and had nothing to do with neither Jews nor Christians…!

Now, let me ask you this, where are you quoting this and who’s translation you applying because I can see you are making a mockery here…?

The next Aya you have quoted is 9:30 it deals with both christians and Jews and hence question there claim that “God had a son” in No certain terms does not instruct the prophet or Muslims to fight and kill Christians and Jews and simply states that they are wrong like the folks in the old days and God condemned those before them, ie, (before Christians and Jews).

Here is the complete Aya (verse) “The Jews said, “Ezra is the son of GOD,” while the Christians said, “Jesus is the son of GOD!” These are blasphemies uttered by their mouths. They thus match the blasphemies of those who have disbelieved in the past. GOD condemns them. They have surely deviated” [9:30]

Now, where all these killings and stuff you quoted come from…?

Moreover, why are you equating the Pagans (Idol worshippers) to Jews and Christians (People of the Books) why…I tell you why because you have your own sad and twisted agenda…why it is I have no idea.

To proof my point here is the translation of the meaning of Aya 9:28 that you have twisted so much it reads like a Chinese typography.

"O ye who believe! Truly the Pagans are unclean; so let them not, after this year of theirs, approach the Sacred Mosque. And if ye fear poverty, soon will God enrich you, if He wills, out of His bounty, for God is All-knowing, All-wise.[9:28]

Who are Pagans …? the Quraish pagans or Christians and Jews.

Hunian…do you mean the battle of Hunnain…? if so we will deal with it separate and if so, I ask you to have the time of this battle noted somewhere, preferably when did this battle took place and where…?

my friend, if you need to understand Islam ask about it and hopefully you will ask Muslims like me or others who are more knowledgable if not then you are not interested in knowledge but vile attack on Islam and Muslims and that is not really good and it this question becomes rather a vocal why do you want to do that…? I wonder why…? and why on a Catholic forum thought you never claimed you are one…?

 

[AbeOman]

Okay - tell us where the Quran limits the ‘beating’ to child wives?

Don’t just tell us it does - show us the words.

First don’t corrupt what I have said, Quran does not mentioned anything called “child wives” as matter of fact that is offensive to me and everything you are implaying forthwith…!

Second, the Quran is very clear on the subject of “beating” in general and particualy in “Beating your wife”.

The only way to beat a wife or child, is to do so in a way that does not risk physical harm to the person and it should only be done after the committing of something serious such as flagrant disobedience (disobedience only to that which is halal [permissible according to Islam]).
Now, one MUST understand fully what is permissible according to Islam or what are the disobediences that Islam is talking about, not just if your wife say no to something you start beating her.
Howe ever, I will attend to this some other time but now let me deal with wife beating…as you have noted in your post.

First, keep these Hadiths in mind,
T. Al-Qurtubi, Vol. 15, p. 212
During the ailment of Job, his wife used to beg for him and Satan told her a word of disbelief to say and she told her husband (Job), so he became angry with her and took an oath to strike her one hundred lashes. So Allah ordered Job to fulfil his oath by striking her with the bundle of thin grass.

Prophet Ayûb (Job) was informed how to beat his wife in this particular instance, in a way such that he would not harm her, yet still fulfill his misguided oath:

Same applies to all Muslims, now I will backed up with What the Quran is teaching us…

 

[AbeOman]

First don’t corrupt what I have said, Quran does not mentioned anything called “child wives” as matter of fact that is offensive to me and everything you are implaying forthwith…!

Snipped…

Same applies to all Muslims, now I will backed up with What the Quran is teaching us…

The Noble Qur’an - Sâd 38:44
[To Job]: And take in your hand a bundle of thin grass and strike therewith (your wife),…

And Quran goes on…

Al-Baqarah 2:224
And make not Allâh’s (Name) an excuse in your oaths against your doing good and acting piously, and making peace among mankind. And Allâh is All-Hearer, All-Knower (i.e. do not swear much and if you have sworn against doing something good then give an expiation for the oath and do good).

What does the Hatidh has to say…well plenty,

Hadith - Bukhari 8:68 (Volume 8, Book 73, Number 68), Narrated 'Abdullah bin Zam’a The Prophet forbade laughing at a person who passes wind, and said, “How does anyone of you beat his wife as he beats the stallion camel and then he may embrace (sleep with) her?”

Hadith - Tirmidhi, Narrated Amr ibn al-Ahwas al-Jushami
I said: Apostle of Allah, how should we approach our wives and how should we leave them? He replied: Approach your tilth when or how you will*, give her (your wife) food when you take food, clothe when you clothe yourself, do not revile her face, and do not beat her.
*meaning, you may have vaginal intercourse from any position.

Hadith - Dawud, Narrated Aisha, Ummul Mu’minin
Habibah daughter of Sahl was the wife of Thabit ibn Qays Shimmas. He beat her and broke some of her part. So she came to the Prophet after morning, and complained to him against her husband. The Prophet called on Thabit ibn Qays and said (to him): Take a part of her property and separate yourself from her. He asked: Is that right, Apostle of Allah? He said: Yes. He said: I have given her two gardens of mine as a dower, and they are already in her possession. The Prophet said: Take them and separate yourself from her.

 

[AbeOman]

[Snipped]

Incoclusion, please consider these Quran verses and Hadiths instructing all Muslims about the subject…in more clear terms and in reality, a believing husband would most probably NEVER come to the stage where he would actually lay a hand on his wife. He would be much too careful to examine his own motives first, as a God fearing man, before exercising this right. As we see in the verse immediately following 4:34, when the marriage reaches this stage it’s on it’s way to end, as the very next words in the Quran reads; “If a couple fears separation…”

Most women in the world today do not enjoy the protection verse 4:34 grants them. Instead they are unjustly abused, verbally and physically, by unrighteous men in unrighteous ways, and get beaten up for the most trivial of reasons, or for no reason at all. According to 4:34 even if the husband has a good reason, he is not allowed to lay a hand on his wife until he has passed all the previous steps.

The woman’s responsibility in a marriage starts the day she chooses a husband. If she wants to enjoy her God given rights, she must obey her God given commands, and choose a believing husband. Thus, she can expect from him to treat her in accordance with God’s decree, and not transgress against her. She can expect from a believing husband that he will heed any reminder she gives him, if he forgets. If she chooses to disregard God’s commands, she has to know that there will be consequences.

If women expect the men’s deeds to have consequences, they should expect the same for themselves. These consequences are however well controlled to protect the women from the outrage of the angry husbands as we can find in God’s law for the believers in 4:34.
We also learn that one of the traits of the righteous is that they suppress anger.
[3:134] “…They are suppressors of anger, and pardoners of the people. GOD loves the charitable.”
The nature and essence of a healthy relationship between a husband and wife is beautifully expressed in the following verse from the Quran:
30:21] Among His proofs is that He created for you spouses from among yourselves, in order to have tranquility and contentment with each other, and He placed in your hearts love and care towards your spouses. In this, there are sufficient proofs for people who think.
[3:195 ]"Their Lord responded to them: “I never fail to reward any worker among you for any work you do, be you MALE OR FEMALE, YOU ARE EQUAL TO ONE ANOTHER…”
When facing difficult times, even if the man dislikes his wife, God has decreed;
[4:19] O you who believe, it is not lawful for you to inherit what the women leave behind, against their will. You shall not force them to give up anything you had given them, unless they commit a proven adultery. You shall treat them nicely. If you dislike them, you may dislike something wherein GOD has placed a lot of good.
And when divorce happens, the full respect to the wife is urged,
[2:229] Divorce may be retracted twice. The divorced woman shall be allowed to live in the same home amicably, or leave it amicably. It is not lawful for the husband to take back anything he had given her. However, the couple may fear that they may transgress GOD’s law. If there is fear that they may transgress GOD’s law, they commit no error if the wife willingly gives back whatever she chooses. These are GOD’s laws; do not transgress them. Those who transgress GOD’s laws are the unjust.
In conclusion; A BELIEVING wife and a BELIEVING husband will NEVER get to the point where beating of the wife enters the picture. A BELIEVING couple will consult one another and agree on the best way to solve their differences as verse 4:34 and the whole scripture recommends.

We have to know that we are not in this world to protect unrighteous behavior. We are in this world to be given a last chance to make the right choice and submit to God alone.

Making the wrong choices will have consequences for all of us, both in this world and in the eternal Hereafter, for women and men equally.

That is it.

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

Who is Ali Sina…? have you read or try to find any rebuttals to his lies and what he claims…? come on I expect more than that from you… or when slander Islam and Muslims anything goes…?

By the way, I have a question, don’t you realise that I can also do the same thing and slander Catholism or Christianity and use sordid and untruthful sources…! anyway, I would not do it since it’s forbidden by Islam in the first place…just get your facts and reasons right and think for yourself instead of folks like Ali Sina as he never being a Muslim…and I don’t think you can proof otherwise.

The Hadiths he quotes are well known and easy to look up. They are quoted in context.

faithfreedom.org/debates.htm

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

**Chapter 10: IT IS PERMISSIBLE FOR THE FATHER TO GIVE THE HAND OF HIS DAUGHTER IN MARRIAGE EVEN WHEN SHE IS NOT FULLY GROWN UP **

---

Book 008, Number 3309:
'A’isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house at the age of nine. She further said: We went to Medina and I had an attack of fever for a month, and my hair had come down to the earlobes. Umm Ruman (my mother) came to me and I was at that time on a swing along with my playmates. She called me loudly and I went to her and I did not know what she had wanted of me. She took hold of my hand and took me to the door, and I was saying: Ha, ha (as if I was gasping), until the agitation of my heart was over. She took me to a house, where had gathered the women of the Ansar. They all blessed me and wished me good luck and said: May you have share in good. She (my mother) entrusted me to them. They washed my head and embellished me and nothing frightened me. Allah’s Messenger (, may peace be upon him) came there in the morning, and I was entrusted to him.

---

Book 008, Number 3310:
'A’isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house when I was nine years old.

---

Book 008, Number 3311:
'A’isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported that Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him) married her when she was seven years old, and he was taken to his house as a bride when she was nine, and her dolls were with her; and when he (the Holy Prophet) died she was eighteen years old.

usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/muslim/008.smt.html#008.3310

Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64:
Narrated 'Aisha:

that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death).

---

Volume 7, Book 62, Number 65:
Narrated 'Aisha:

that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: I have been informed that ‘Aisha remained with the Prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death)." what you know of the Quran (by heart)’

---

usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/062.sbt.html#007.062.065

Volume 7, Book 62, Number 17:
Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah:

When I got married, Allah’s Apostle said to me, “What type of lady have you married?” I replied, "I have married a matron’ He said, “Why, don’t you have a liking for the virgins and for fondling them?” Jabir also said: Allah’s Apostle said, "Why didn’t you marry a young girl so that you might play with her and she with you?’

usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/062.sbt.html#007.062.018

Volume 9, Book 87, Number 140:
Narrated 'Aisha:

Allah’s Apostle said to me, "You were shown to me twice (in my dream) before I married you. I saw an angel carrying you in a silken piece of cloth, and I said to him, ‘Uncover (her),’ and behold, it was you. I said (to myself), ‘If this is from Allah, then it must happen.’ Then you were shown to me, the angel carrying you in a silken piece of cloth, and I said (to him), 'Uncover (her), and behold, it was you. I said (to myself), ‘If this is from Allah, then it must happen.’ "

usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/087.sbt.html#009.087.140

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

Sahih Bukhari 5.236.
Narrated Hisham’s father:
Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married 'Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consumed that marriage when she was nine years old.

Sahih Bukhari 5.234
Narrated Aisha:
The Prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six (years). We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Bani-al-Harith bin Khazraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became Allright, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, “Best wishes and Allah’s Blessing and a good luck.” Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah’s Apostle came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age.

Sunan Abu-Dawud Book 41, Number 4915, also Number 4916 and Number 4917
Narrated Aisha, Ummul Mu’minin:
The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) married me when I was seven or six. When we came to Medina, some women came. according to Bishr’s version: Umm Ruman came to me when I was swinging. They took me, made me prepared and decorated me. I was then brought to the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him), and he took up cohabitation with me when I was nine. She halted me at the door, and I burst into laughter.

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 90
Narrated Aisha:
When the Prophet married me, my mother came to me and made me enter the house (of the Prophet) and nothing surprised me but the coming of Allah’s Apostle to me in the forenoon.

Sahih Bukhari Volume 8, Book 73, Number 151
Narrated 'Aisha:
I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet, and my girl friends also used to play with me. When Allah’s Apostle used to enter (my dwelling place) they used to hide themselves, but the Prophet would call them to join and play with me. (The playing with the dolls and similar images is forbidden, but it was allowed for 'Aisha at that time, as she was a little girl, not yet reached the age of puberty.) (Fateh-al-Bari page 143, Vol.13)

Sahih Muslim Book 008, Number 3311
'A’isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported that Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him) married her when she was seven years old, and he was taken to his house as a bride when she was nine, and her dolls were with her; and when he (the Holy Prophet) died she was eighteen years old.

Sahih Bukhari Volume 8, Book 73, Number 33
Narrated 'Aisha:
I never felt so jealous of any woman as I did of Khadija, though she had died three years before the Prophet married me, and that was because I heard him mentioning her too often, and because his Lord had ordered him to give her the glad tidings that she would have a palace in Paradise, made of Qasab and because he used to slaughter a sheep and distribute its meat among her friends.

Sahih Bukhari Volume 5, Book 58, Number 245

Narrated 'Aisha:
(the wife of the Prophet) I never remembered my parents believing in any religion other than the true religion (i.e. Islam),

usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/muslim/008.smt.html#008.3310

You need only follow each of his links to the Hadiths themsleves to see that he is correctly quoting those sources.

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

Besides my purpose in bringing up Muhammad’s child-bride was to raise the question that discipling one’s wife, only related to a wife who was not an adult. Is there any evidence to this possiblity?

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

kidnappedchristiangirls.org/women_and_islam
kidnappedchristiangirls.org/what_to_do_if_youre_propositioned_by_a_muslim
kidnappedchristiangirls.org/magdi_khalil_on_the_kidnappings

Faisalabad (AsiaNews) – Two Christian girls, little more than children, were kidnapped from their families recently, forcibly converted to Islam and then married off to strangers. Both of the kidnaps took place in Faisalabad, the third largest city in Pakistan, and both were completely ignored by the police. The phenomenon is not a new one however, underlined numerous human rights activist, but it is dangerously on the increase.

On August 5 Muhammad Adnan, a Muslim from Zulfiqar colony Faisalabad and his sister kidnapped Zunaira, **an eleven years old Christian girl from her home in Warispura. After the kidnap, they forced her to convert to Islam and marry her kidnaper Muhammad. **
The small girl’s mother, Abida, told AsiaNews: “When I was roaming in streets in search of my daughter two Muslim men of the area told me that they saw Adnan and his sister taking my daughter”. Abida decided to go to the kidnapper’s house, from which however she is thrown out. Returning home, she was contacted by two men who revealed the kidnappers identity and offer to act as negotiators for her daughters release in exchange for money

kidnappedchristiangirls.org/home

 

[AbeOman]

The word in 9:29 is saghiroona.
Correction, it’s not Saghiroona…that sounds Urdu and not Arabic in English you could write it as Saaghiroon or Saaghiruun)

This word means humbled, shamed, humiliated, subjected, subjugated.

No it does not mean all of the above…but it means more like humbled, unwilling, doing something and feeling low at the same time. where does humiliated or subjected get in your misquotes, as matter of fact, it’s what they feel when they paying money or Jizya.

Before we go in to the Tafseer, which basically means what and how someone interprets the Quran and gives meanings of (Surah, Ayah or kalimah), let us go back to the Quran in it’s original Arabic…

قاتلوا الذين لايؤمنون بالله ولاباليوم الاخر ولايحرمون ماحرم الله ورسوله ولايدينون دين الحق من الذين اوتوا الكتاب حتى يعطوا الجزية عن يد وهم صاغرون
Surat (Chapter) Al Toubah, Ayah 29.

Now, let’s look at the translation of the last word of the Ayah, Saaqhiruun and what does it mean, here I will give you 3 different translations of the meaning of the Kalimah (word), to do so I will point-out to 3 different translations,

Yusuf Ali
“Fight those who believe not in God nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by God and His Apostle, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued”

Pickthal
“Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low”

Let’s look at this this translation,

“You shall fight back against those who do not believe in GOD, nor in the Last Day, nor do they prohibit what GOD and His messenger have prohibited, nor do they abide by the religion of truth - among those who received the scripture - until they pay the due tax, willingly or unwillingly”

Now, if you ask me which is the closet to the original Arabic Ayah, then I must say it’s must be the last one, because it renders the closest meaning of what I understand from the Ayah or verses, since I don’t need a translator and my mother tongue is Arabic, so does the Ayah telling me to fight against Christians and Jews or people among them who don’t believe, i thing it’s clear it says that “among them”.

What do I understand the word, Saaqhiruun…(An Yad wahum Saaqhiruun)

Now let me break it down to you…An Yad…means (On hand or from their hand) Wahum (means them) Saaqhiruun (means not willingly, or feeling humbled)

Where do we see humiliation, subjugation or any of that e offensive stuff you are trying to push down in our throats…?
Where does the Ayah say go an kill Christians and Jews…?

Do the Jews and Christians believe in God, Do they believe in the day of Judgement, do they forbid what God and the prophet has allowed…?

This is what the Ayah, is telling us fight against those who don’t believe in god, the day of judgement, etc who are among those who received our book, who are they, now to get the answer to that question then you need to understand why and when this aya was revealed to the prophet… and that is for you to find out.

You don’t to bring up any further Tafseers or translations, I’m here and more than capable to translate any word for you so stop making up your own meanings and jumping to your own conclusions.

Finally, I challenge you to show us your source, share with us the sight you using as I have done and been doing all the time.

Thanks and I hope you don’t waste my time any more.

 

[AbeOman]

kidnappedchristiangirls.org/women_and_islam
kidnappedchristiangirls.org/what_to_do_if_youre_propositioned_by_a_muslim
kidnappedchristiangirls.org/magdi_khalil_on_the_kidnappings

kidnappedchristiangirls.org/home

Good grooves, there is even a website dedicated to Muslim kidnappers…Boy ooh boy, don’t how factual all these stuff are but some has been real busy.

Perhaps, those 100 Chadian kids who were kidnapped did not make into the news yet or no one had the time or money to make a website.

Daniel, not everything you read is correct, so I suggest you cross check and double check your sources.

Sometimes, it only makes sense to find the truth…, perhaps this all truth so then what are we doing about it. how about writing to the Egyptian and Pakistani Embassy in D.C for a starter…?

What do you think…?