"Save a life at all costs" is a dangerous philosophy, is it not?

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umamibella said:
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Freddy:
The flu evolves. That’s why you need yearly shots. The ones that you have next year won’t be same ones you had last year. Likewise with covid. One vaccine won’t give you lifetime protection so there’s no permanent solution.

But there are very many procedures that will prevent you getting it this time around.
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It depends on the strain of flu. WHO determines that on an annual basis and identifies the 4 most prevalent strains for that season. Its not really flu evolving.
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Each of the strains evolve:

‘Of all the influenza viruses that routinely circulate and cause illness in people, influenza A(H3N2) viruses tend to change more rapidly, both genetically and antigenically’. Types of Influenza Viruses | CDC.

If they didn’t evolve (change genetically) then a vaccine against one strain this year would always work.
 
Ridgerunner said:
Apparently Covid evolves too. That’s why this is called “Covid 19” and “Novel Coronavirus”. With some diseases, vaccines work remarkably well. For some, not so well. Even St. Fauci thinks Covid vaccine results will be short lived.
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Freddy:
But there are very many procedures that will prevent you getting it this time around
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No there aren’t. There are measures that are believed by some (disbelieved by others) to improve your chances of avoiding it for the present.
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Of course there are. If you have zero contact with anyone who either has it or has been in contact with someone who has it then you will not become infected. So we have closed state borders in Australia to prevent it spreading. We force people who arrive in Australia to quarantine for 14 days to make sure that they don’t have it and pass it on. We limit the number of people who go to cafes and bars and restaurants so there’s social distancing and you have to leave your contact details with the establishment so contact tracing can be easily carried out if someone has slipped through the net.

I think we’ve had one case in tbe last couple of days. Not in Sydney or New South Wales, but in the entire country.

How can someone say that they don’t believe that these procedures will affect your chances of getting it?
 
umamibella said:
Mutations are agents of evolution but not evolution itself.
New strains can simply come about due to the initial vector rather then evolution, or a mutation to infect the host.

Mutation—The Engine of Evolution: Studying Mutation and Its Role in the Evolution of Bacteria

@Freddy do you follow the Melbourne Cup?
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I think we’ll agree to disagree on the finer points of virus evolution. But yeah, I’ve got the runners and riders in front of me right now. Ashrun for a win and Persan for an outside chance of a place (and I’ve got twenty bucks on Biden in the two horse race).
 
No worries, I am Sir dragonnet, Tigermoth and surrprise baby. Horses and the hendra virus is a good example of 'save a life at all costs ’ philosophy. ( I gotta check sportsbet USA election odds later)
The way the Melbourne Cup is being run today is another good example of ‘save a life at all costs’ philosophy.
 
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Only Tiger Moths fifth race and he’s favourite! Good luck anyway.
 
Freddy said:
Only Tiger Moths fifth race and he’s favourite! Good luck anyway.
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Thanks you too,
So our discussion is not flagged as off topic, the ‘save a life at all costs’ philosophy will aid the non drunken revelry on the way home from the Cup this year. Its a good philosophy for the Cup. No covid super spreader event from Flemington this year.
Have a donut!
 
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Freddy said:
Of course there are. If you have zero contact with anyone who either has it or has been in contact with someone who has it then you will not become infected.
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Not right away, of course. But if the disease is or becomes endemic, sooner or later you will be exposed. Maybe Australia can keep people out and quarantine them forever, but I can’t see that lasting indefinitely. NZ kept everyone out for a time and thought they had wiped Covid out, but somebody turned up with it just the same.
 
Ridgerunner said:
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Freddy:
Of course there are. If you have zero contact with anyone who either has it or has been in contact with someone who has it then you will not become infected.
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Not right away, of course. But if the disease is or becomes endemic, sooner or later you will be exposed. Maybe Australia can keep people out and quarantine them forever, but I can’t see that lasting indefinitely. NZ kept everyone out for a time and thought they had wiped Covid out, but somebody turned up with it just the same.
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The procedures are in place to stop it becoming endemic. And you don’t quarantine for ever. Two weeks is fine. When my wife returned from the UK a few months back then we both had to quarantine for that two weeks. At home was acceptable but you were checked to see if you were complying. We has the police visit two days after her return just to make sure we were home. If we weren’t…then it was a very large fine.

A week after her return the quarantine was to be done in hotels. At the governments expense. But a few weeks later at your own expense.
 
Maybe Australia can keep Covid out of the country forever. Being an island helps, I’m sure. But sooner or later it will turn up. It’s probably already there if one only knew, sort of the experience of NZ. Somebody had it but nobody knew how he got it.
 
Still it’s better to have it under control than not. When there are so few cases, contact tracing and quarantine can stop the disease. That’s how Ebola and SARS were kept from going global.
 
Ridgerunner said:
Maybe Australia can keep Covid out of the country forever. Being an island helps, I’m sure. But sooner or later it will turn up. It’s probably already there if one only knew, sort of the experience of NZ. Somebody had it but nobody knew how he got it.
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It is here. But those who have it are in quarantine. And we know where they got it. They’ve all been contact traced.
 
Beryllos said:
Still it’s better to have it under control than not. When there are so few cases, contact tracing and quarantine can stop the disease. That’s how Ebola and SARS were kept from going global.
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I don’t think either disease was as contagious as Covid is, particularly Ebola. Diseases become endemic in our modern world when they’re both highly contagious and difficult to prevent with vaccines, like the common cold (some 20% of which is actually a coronavirus). Covid appears to be both of those.

I think we’ll find that ultimately all preventives will only be temporary.
Freddy said:
It is here. But those who have it are in quarantine. And we know where they got it. They’ve all been contact traced.
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Or so the government thinks. They thought they had it eliminated in NZ back in August and were even more restrictive than Australia, but then it broke out again. There are now 75 known cases but, of course, nobody knows how many unidentified cases there are.
 
Ridgerunner said:
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Beryllos:
Still it’s better to have it under control than not. When there are so few cases, contact tracing and quarantine can stop the disease. That’s how Ebola and SARS were kept from going global.
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I don’t think either disease was as contagious as Covid is, particularly Ebola. Diseases become endemic in our modern world when they’re both highly contagious and difficult to prevent with vaccines, like the common cold (some 20% of which is actually a coronavirus). Covid appears to be both of those.

I think we’ll find that ultimately all preventives will only be temporary.
Freddy said:
It is here. But those who have it are in quarantine. And we know where they got it. They’ve all been contact traced.
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Or so the government thinks. They thought they had it eliminated in NZ back in August and were even more restrictive than Australia, but then it broke out again. There are now 75 known cases but, of course, nobody knows how many unidentified cases there are.
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Well yeah…there may be some people who are sick and can’t be bothered to go to their local testing station. You can do your best to prevent the spread but you can’t legislate against stupidity.

Well, actually you can. Try crossing a state border without permission and you could face jail time.

And what actually are you arguing against? NZ and Australia are two of the best examples of what to do to prevent the spread. Yeah, we’ve no borders with other countries which gives us an advantage. But the US has only two. Are they closed? Are you contact tracing? Are states isolated? Is quarantine compulsory? Are there still international flights?
 
Socrates92 said:
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Freddy:
Not if it’s your life…
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Why is that not dangerous? That sounds like the philosophy of a paranoid, dangerous individual. Caligula being a great historical example.
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Save someone else’s life at any cost? Well, I’d need to know what the cost is. Is it my life? Then I’m less interested in the cost (within reason).
 
Ridgerunner said:
Apparently Covid evolves too. That’s why this is called “Covid 19” and “Novel Coronavirus”. With some diseases, vaccines work remarkably well. For some, not so well. Even St. Fauci thinks Covid vaccine results will be short lived.
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You have to ask yourself what justification all these leaders have in peddling this “wait for a vaccine” nonsense then. They’re clearly being dishonest and should be publicly called out for it.
 
Freddy said:
(within reason).
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Aha, now you’re changing the tune. That is entirely different than what you originally said.

“Save a life at all costs” and “save a life within reason” are mutually exclusive outlooks. They are in direct contradiction with each other.
 
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Socrates92 said:
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Freddy:
(within reason).
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Aha, now you’re changing the tune. That is entirely different than what you originally said.

“Save a life at all costs” and “save a life within reason” are mutually exclusive outlooks. They are in direct contradiction with each other.
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I must be wrong then.
 
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