Saying rosary during mass

[Monica37]

Siena,
I have really tried to give you the benefit of the doubt on 2 threads now. As I read your posts, they seem to become more and more accusatory and less and less about trying to understand another persons perspective. That is the great thing about this forum. We can talk to people who have had a wide variety of experiences and customs. We don’t want to argue, but rather give another perspective. Please don’t dismiss things that are meaningful to some as just not allowed or appropriate. We are not talking about chewing gum in the line for Communion (which I have seen), but rather someone engaged in prayer. I’m not sure how you think you know what the Blessed Mother would say to anyone, but I sense a bit of pride and increasing self righteousness in your posts. I hope I am misreading that.

 

[Katie1723]

…
The only reason I can think of that she prayed the Rosary through the mass is that she started before mass and didn’t have time to finish. …

First of all, you DON’T have any idea why she was praying the rosary. Secondly, if you were watching her you weren’t paying attention to the Mass itself.

And to the poster who intimated the woman may have had a “mental illness”…how horrible that is to say!

I think there are some of us too nosy and worried what everyone else is doing , what the state of their souls are, or their mental status is, when perhaps it is we who should be praying to be a little less judgemental and more forgiving.

 

[japhy]

and the answer is?

From other people’s experience, I would say that praying the Rosary during the Mass does not necessarily distract one from the Mass. It might for some people, so those people probably shouldn’t do it!

 

[japhy]

I suppose my question is: what does it mean to “pray along with the priest”,

AMEN…IT IS SO …being in constant agreement

That’s a very simplistic answer. Does it exclude or include praying the Rosary?

 

[SienaFriend]

Wonder if you could clarify this for me. Particularly the “fads” portion.

What should have specifically typed to was

I AM 50 YEARS OLD, DRIVING A ROSARY ROADSTER (MY KIDS CALL IT THAT, BECAUSE I HAVE ON MIRROR AND PRAY WHILE DRIVING) I CARRY IT WITH ME, ALL THE TIME, SLEEP WITH IT, EAT WITH IT AND I AM …LIKE THE OLD LADIES YOU ARE ALL TALKING ABOUT…AND PROUD OF IT…

 

[SienaFriend]

That’s a very simplistic answer. Does it exclude or include praying the Rosary?

For me it excludes the rosary as the priest isn’t praying the rosary, so I would not feel as that particular prayer would help me to achieve being IN THE ONE SPIRIT… Put it this way, or I am putting it this way excuse me let me try and be clear. For me, I do not descern the Holy Spirit moving me to pray the rosary during the mass from entrance to exit. Before or after is the only time that I have not had reservations to praying the rosary.

 

[SienaFriend]

The mass itself, being timeless sacrifice is suffient to mediate the sorrowful mysteries, the glorious mysterious all rosary is gospel and I am hearing the word from the priest, I am at the calvary so…that’s my meditation. I’m not telling anyone how to meditate. This is what I do and what I percieve as proper and surest route to where I am trying to be…

 

[Snerticus]

Japhy, thanks for the short history lesson in alternate prayer during mass. However nothing in what you’ve posted says specifically you can say the rosary during mass. It encourages meditation on the mysteries at times, but that is a totally different thing than saying a rosary during mass.

Saying a rosary encompasses physical action as well as mental prayer. The mental prayer part I agree with, as we certainly can pray whatever we want during the meditation periods during the mass. The physical part where we take out our beads and “use” the rosary is the part that I don’t see anywhere in your references. Different people will see this and come to their own conclusions. Maybe we shouldn’t, but it’s inevitable because that’s what people do when they see something either they’re not used to seeing or that they think is wrong. To the people that just hold the beads because they feel secure doing so, but don’t say the rosary, that’s okay too, because you’re not pulling the beads out on display for everyone to see.

Nothing you’ve said so far illustrates to me that saying the rosary during mass is allowed. I can’t imaging meditating on Mary’s visit to Elizabeth during the EP when we are supposed to be listening to the priest’s offering is reverent. I don’t think Mary would appreciate us thinking about her when we should be thinking about her son’s sacrifice either.

Those documents you referred to are old. One thing that stuck out is that we don’t necessarily understand what the priest is saying. Well, maybe if we tried we would. There is nothing that I’ve heard that the priest says aloud that I don’t understand. I might not understand why he’s saying it that specific way or in that specific order, but if you listen to him, you generally get the gist of what he’s trying to do. Also, there’s a lot of literature on the mass today and it’s not that hard for someone in this day and age to find out what the priest is actually doing and why during the mass. Maybe in Pope Pius’s time the people didn’t understand but today the Church makes it easier to understand what is going on.

If you were born in a generation where that was the norm and you were brought up saying the rosary all during mass (or I guess you yourself only say it during the EP), then that’s fine, I suppose. But we are no longer in those times and while I see an occasional person sitting during mass with a rosary, it’s not common to see anymore. At least not in my area. I don’t think teaching people that saying a rosary during mass is a good idea because of abuses that are running rampant in this day and age. Perhaps back then the people were more pious, but today telling someone that praying the rosary is okay during mass will only bring about abuses of the devotion, not true meditation.

What I’m looking for is a relatively recent Church document on saying the rosary at mass, not pre-Vatican II. I did find this at the website Aquinasandmore.com

Abolition of the rosary, Mariology, or devotion to Mary was never the intent of the Second Vatican Council. The council in fact recommended fervent devotion to Mary and never said anything against the rosary. However an evening Mass replaced some evening services that had previously included Marian devotions, and the faithful were expected to no longer pray the rosary during Mass (which was not uncommon to see in a Latin Mass in the early 60s and before) but to participate in the Mass by attending to what was taking place at the altar.

I know it’s not an official Church document, but it does explain very briefly the point I’m trying to get across. The article was about the Rosary in general (aquinasandmore.com/index.cfm/title/October-and-the-Rosary/FuseAction/store.displayArticle/article/145/).

Since I have read this I know I am not a loony bin in thinking the way I do; and I no longer wish to discuss this subject. My opinion stands and there is good reason for it. If you haven’t gotten the idea why, there’s nothing more I can say about it.

 

[Newbie2]

Ok. What are you doing as you listen? Surely you don’t listen to the priest pray the Eucharistic Prayer in the same way you listen to a radio broadcast or a friend talking your ear off on the phone.

What is happening along with the listening?

I don’t understand your question. I’m attentive to the prayer, focused on the words and the meaning.

First of all, you DON’T have any idea why she was praying the rosary. No, I don’t. Secondly, if you were watching her you weren’t paying attention to the Mass itself. To some extent, yes.

I think there are some of us too nosy and worried what everyone else is doing , what the state of their souls are, or their mental status is, when perhaps it is we who should be praying to be a little less judgemental and more forgiving.

Perhaps.

But it makes for interesting discussion how some of us can “multitask” when it comes to praying and participating in mass. I, for one, cannot. When I pray the Rosary, I’m focused on praying to our Lady and on her intercessions for me. This is completely different than what’s going on during mass. It’s hard for me to imagine how someone can completely focus on both.

So…I wanted to see what other people thought. I, for one, am not judging anyone…it’s something I find as curious. If someone can do both and get something out of it, that’s fine with me.

 

[japhy]

nothing in what you’ve posted says specifically you can say the rosary during mass. It encourages meditation on the mysteries at times, but that is a totally different thing than saying a rosary during mass.

I would disagree that praying the Rosary is a “totally different thing” from meditating on the mysteries of Christ.

Saying a rosary encompasses physical action as well as mental prayer. The mental prayer part I agree with, as we certainly can pray whatever we want during the meditation periods during the mass. The physical part where we take out our beads and “use” the rosary is the part that I don’t see anywhere in your references.

So praying the Rosary without physically handling the beads is permitted, whereas praying the Rosary with the beads wouldn’t be? I suppose there’s a case for the use of Rosary beads potentially causing scandal…

Nothing you’ve said so far illustrates to me that saying the rosary during mass is allowed. I can’t imaging meditating on Mary’s visit to Elizabeth during the EP when we are supposed to be listening to the priest’s offering is reverent. I don’t think Mary would appreciate us thinking about her when we should be thinking about her son’s sacrifice either.

Again, you set it up as though we can’t think of both Christ and his sacrifice and Mary at the same time. The Visitation wouldn’t be a mystery of the Rosary if it weren’t for Jesus being in the womb of Mary. I think the Visitation is a fitting mystery to meditate upon at the very moment of the Consecration: we have a stirring in our souls (as John the Baptist leapt in the womb of Elizabeth) as our Lord comes to us hidden under the appearances of bread and wine, just as he was hidden within the womb of Mary.

Those documents you referred to are old. One thing that stuck out is that we don’t necessarily understand what the priest is saying. Well, maybe if we tried we would. There is nothing that I’ve heard that the priest says aloud that I don’t understand.

It’s great that you understand what is being said at Mass! Hopefully you can help others to do so as well. How many people do actively listen to the words of the prayers and comprehend them?

Also, there’s a lot of literature on the mass today and it’s not that hard for someone in this day and age to find out what the priest is actually doing and why during the mass.

I’ve written some literature on the Mass (in my signature) about what the prayers of the Mass mean, so I know the importance of understanding what is being said and done at Mass, what is means, and why we do it.

If you were born in a generation where that was the norm … then that’s fine, I suppose.

Nah, I wasn’t born until 1981. But that shouldn’t prevent me from being permitted from praying the Rosary during Mass. And just for clarity’s sake: I’ve only prayed the Rosary once during Mass, and I admit I had a hard time concentrating on the Mass, the mystery, and the prayers of the Rosary… but I don’t have a lot of practice praying the Rosary, to be candid.

today telling someone that praying the rosary is okay during mass will only bring about abuses of the devotion, not true meditation.

I don’t think a blanket statement like that is fair. If people learn how to pray the Rosary and how to meditate on the mysteries, perhaps it won’t be an abuse of the devotion… perhaps they will learn how to meditate and enter into the Mass more deeply. Again, this is not a case of pitting the Rosary against participation in the Mass!

Since I have read this I know I am not a loony bin in thinking the way I do; and I no longer wish to discuss this subject. My opinion stands and there is good reason for it. If you haven’t gotten the idea why, there’s nothing more I can say about it.

This isn’t about being loony or not. I’m not trying to force you to pray the Rosary at Mass. I just don’t think the Rosary can be written off as a distraction during the Mass.

 

[japhy]

I don’t understand your question. I’m attentive to the prayer, focused on the words and the meaning.

I’m sure that the way you pay attention to the Eucharistic Prayer (or any other prayer) is different from the way you pay attention to something being spoken or done that isn’t a prayer. When someone is speaking to me, I am focused on the words they’re saying and what they mean by them, so that I understand them… so there’s something more involved (for me) when the Eucharistic Prayer is prayed. As I said in a previous reply, I pray for various things during the Eucharistic Prayer, whether it be for myself, for my wife, for my family, for the priest, for the deceased, etc. Sometimes I coordinate the particular prayer with the part of the Eucharistic Prayer being prayed at that moment (which is awfully hard to do with such a short E.P. like E.P. II).

 

[zab]

I’m sure that the way you pay attention to the Eucharistic Prayer (or any other prayer) is different from the way you pay attention to something being spoken or done that isn’t a prayer. When someone is speaking to me, I am focused on the words they’re saying and what they mean by them, so that I understand them… so there’s something more involved (for me) when the Eucharistic Prayer is prayed. As I said in a previous reply, I pray for various things during the Eucharistic Prayer, whether it be for myself, for my wife, for my family, for the priest, for the deceased, etc. Sometimes I coordinate the particular prayer with the part of the Eucharistic Prayer being prayed at that moment (which is awfully hard to do with such a short E.P. like E.P. II).

I have more time to get in all of my petitions when I pray my morning offering
O Jesus, through the Immaculate Heart of Mary, I offer thee my prayers, works, joys and sufferings in union with the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass being offered throughout the world throughout all time for the conversion of sinners and the salvation of souls, and especially for…
That way, when you are at Mass, your petitions have already been mentioned and you don’t have to worry about getting them all in during the E.P.

 

[palmas85]

Your last line hit the nail on the head.

Catholics are forbidden from praying the Rosary during the Mass. Why? Because it’s not part of the Mass! It’s that simple.

Padre Pio once remarked, if you want to celebrate the Mass piously, think of Mary at the foot of the Cross. What he meant was, we must imitate Mary’s devotion to Jesus.

I would sure like to see the document that forbids people from saying the Rosary during Mass. Please help us out and let us know where this document is.

 

[bilop]

Your last line hit the nail on the head.

Catholics are forbidden from praying the Rosary during the Mass. Why? Because it’s not part of the Mass! It’s that simple.

Padre Pio once remarked, if you want to celebrate the Mass piously, think of Mary at the foot of the Cross. What he meant was, we must imitate Mary’s devotion to Jesus.

Nonsense. No such pronouncement has ever been made. Japhy posted several citations showing it was perfectly fine to engage in private prayer during Mass.

The rubrics of the Mass (the GIRM) bind the celebrant and servers, not the congregation.

God Bless

 

[bilop]

I wouldn’t call it “nonsense” odd or unlikely but not impossible in addition to the main original intention the poor man psalter.

It’s nonsense. The history of the Catholic Church is filled with public prayer. From passion plays, to processions on feast days, to the prayers after the Mass, to adoration, and group praying of the rosary, the traditional Catholic piety is nothing if not public.

If someone wants to make the ridiculous assertion that people were prohibited from praying publicly in Medieval (Catholic) Europe, and beaten for it, I’m going to call it what it is, nonsense.

God Bless

 

[OhMalley]

How do you know that praying the Rosary isn’t helping that person concentrate on the mystery of the Mass (rather than the external distractions like lay homilies, game show priests, saccharine or heretical hymns, etc.)? Perhaps the person is receiving grace through praying the Rosary at Mass.

The best way to focus on the mysteries of the Mass is to focus on the Mass. It’s also the best way to gain God’s graces so we don’t immediately focus on what we personally feel is negative.

That’s really the joke about this forum. You try to discuss a matter and far too many just head off on a tangent about things like “lay homilies, game show priests, saccharine or heretical hymns, etc.” Rarely do we hear or discuss the good things. There are reasons why certain people are focused on the negative, the biggest being a lack of God’s grace.

 

[Newbie2]

I’m sure that the way you pay attention to the Eucharistic Prayer (or any other prayer) is different from the way you pay attention to something being spoken or done that isn’t a prayer. When someone is speaking to me, I am focused on the words they’re saying and what they mean by them, so that I understand them… so there’s something more involved (for me) when the Eucharistic Prayer is prayed. As I said in a previous reply, I pray for various things during the Eucharistic Prayer, whether it be for myself, for my wife, for my family, for the priest, for the deceased, etc. Sometimes I coordinate the particular prayer with the part of the Eucharistic Prayer being prayed at that moment (which is awfully hard to do with such a short E.P. like E.P. II).

OK, I see what you’re saying. I focus on the institution of the Eucharist, maybe getting a mental picture of Jesus with his disciples in the upper room.

 

[zab]

I have always been taught that- as wonderful and powerful of a prayer that the rosary is, it should not be prayed during the Mass. When we are at Mass our focus should be on the Mass. Now sometimes our thoughts may be directed to some events in the Scriptures that may help us to understand what is really happening at Mass. And there is nothing wrong with that so long as we do not lose focus of the Mass. There have been times when I have prayed a Hail Mary and a quick prayer to the Holy Spirit for a certain priest who was about to give the homily. Or perhaps some have prayed a quick prayer for some other person that they saw at Mass whatever the need may have been. I don’t believe that there is anything wrong with that. But for the most part, when we are at Mass, we should try to focus on the Mass which is the greatest prayer in the world. We may have to fight many distractions but we should try to always bring our attention back to the Mass.

 

[japhy]

Rarely do we hear or discuss the good things. There are reasons why certain people are focused on the negative, the biggest being a lack of God’s grace.

When I notice abuses in the liturgy, I pray for grace to not be condemning, for patience, and for charity; I also pray for the people committing the abuse and the people who might be affected by it. I wouldn’t say I’m “focused” on the negative, but rather that I’m perceptive… I pay attention and notice things. I don’t hunt for them, but I notice them.

There is discussion of good things on this forum, but more often than not, people come here and ask question because they’re concerned about something and want to ask a question.

 

[OhMalley]

When I notice abuses in the liturgy, I pray for grace to not be condemning, for patience, and for charity; I also pray for the people committing the abuse and the people who might be affected by it. I wouldn’t say I’m “focused” on the negative, but rather that I’m perceptive… I pay attention and notice things. I don’t hunt for them, but I notice them.

There is discussion of good things on this forum, but more often than not, people come here and ask question because they’re concerned about something and want to ask a question.

Go count the threads on the liturgy. It’s more than 2:1 of something negative about the Mass versus giving praise to something wonderful.

I too pay attention to the liturgy. Very, very close attention as should we all. If we notice something amiss it should not break our concentration or dominate our state of mind during the Mass and that’s certainly not easy. With a great deal of prayer and God’s grace it won’t.

That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t look into perceived problems outside of the Mass, etc. but to have to pray the Rosary during the Mass because one is upset at perceived problems is tragic.

Some seem to miss the fact that while there may indeed by legitimate problem(s) with any Mass (and hence someone/something else’s fault) it’s also incumbent for all Catholics to grow in God’s grace so that we do not allow such matters to vitiate our experience at Calvary. That last sentence won’t make a bit of sense to quite a few here but it’s very important.