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JimR-OCDS
Guest
PETA opposes dairy farming. Dairy farming requires impregnating the cow, and slaughtering cows for meat, who can’t produce.
Jim
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Jim
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Farmgal
Guest
Of course, we know that, but PETA will not admit to the general public that their goal is to deny us ALL meat, ALL milk, ALL cheese, or eggs. Their claim was cruelty. They cannot win against a sustainable, organic small farm, because these are extremely popular, even among the city folks, who can’t get enough of these local products!
Unfortunately, it sounds as if their age will make it necessary to find something lass physically demanding than farming, anyway. But I also think it was wrong, for the sake of Truth, to cave in so easily. Chickens are not human beings.
Why doesn’t PETA protest abortion clinics? I know the answer already. They HATE PEOPLE! Unless it is a pie-eyed vegan writing out a check.
Unfortunately, it sounds as if their age will make it necessary to find something lass physically demanding than farming, anyway. But I also think it was wrong, for the sake of Truth, to cave in so easily. Chickens are not human beings.
Why doesn’t PETA protest abortion clinics? I know the answer already. They HATE PEOPLE! Unless it is a pie-eyed vegan writing out a check.
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Ridgerunner
Guest
They’re not going to picket Japanese whalers. It’s too easy for a whaling ship to “accidently” run over whatever PETA might sail out to interfere with it.
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bevvy33
Guest
How animals are treated is NOT a joke.
Pope Benedict 2002 interview: When he was asked about the rights of animals in a 2002 interview, he said, “That is a very serious question. At any rate, we can see that they are given into our care, that we cannot just do whatever we want with them. Animals, too, are God’s creatures . . . Certainly, a sort of industrial use of creatures, so that geese are fed in such a way as to produce as large a liver as possible, or hens live so packed together that they become just caricatures of birds, this degrading of living creatures to a commodity seems to me in fact to contradict the relationship of mutuality that comes across in the Bible.”
goveg.com/pdfs/PopeAdEaster.pdf
Here is a link to the undercover video at the Abby. petatv.com/tvpopup/video.asp?video=mepkin&Player=wm
These Monks were cruel here. Please don’t be in such awe, just because someone is a Monk it doesn’t mean they are above the law or even basic cruelty standards.
At the hatchery that supplies birds to Mepkin Abbey, the sensitive tips of birds’ beaks are seared off with a hot blade. This process causes acute and chronic pain, as discussed in PETA’s letter to Mepkin Abbey. Unable to produce eggs and therefore unprofitable to the industry, male chicks are discarded as trash—often suffocated in plastic bags or ground up in a “macerator” while they are still conscious.
At Mepkin Abbey, the monks cram birds into tiny wire “battery cages” that are so small that the animals can’t even spread their wings. Their bones become weak and often break because the birds are unable to exercise them. They never see sunlight, breathe fresh air, or do anything else that is natural and important to them.
Sick and injured hens are often left to suffer. PETA’s investigator observed two hens with broken legs who were removed from a cage by one of the monks and left to suffer on the floor of the barn for at least 45 minutes while the monk continued to perform routine chores.
When the hens’ bodies become so weak that they stop producing eggs, the abbey starves them using a technique called “feed-withdrawal forced molting” in order to shock them into another laying cycle (to increase their economic utility). This practice is so cruel that up to 5 percent of the hens die during the molt, and many of the surviving hens lose all their feathers and much of their body weight.
After every last egg has been squeezed from the birds, Mepkin Abbey ships its hens to gruesome slaughterhouses. There, the hens’ fragile—and possibly already broken—legs are snapped into tight metal shackles and the birds are immobilized (but not rendered insensible to pain) with electrified water. Next, the birds—still conscious but unable to move—have their throats cut open with a metal blade. Many miss the blade and end up at the next stage—the scalding-hot defeathering tank—while they are still able to feel pain.
Pope Benedict 2002 interview: When he was asked about the rights of animals in a 2002 interview, he said, “That is a very serious question. At any rate, we can see that they are given into our care, that we cannot just do whatever we want with them. Animals, too, are God’s creatures . . . Certainly, a sort of industrial use of creatures, so that geese are fed in such a way as to produce as large a liver as possible, or hens live so packed together that they become just caricatures of birds, this degrading of living creatures to a commodity seems to me in fact to contradict the relationship of mutuality that comes across in the Bible.”
goveg.com/pdfs/PopeAdEaster.pdf
Here is a link to the undercover video at the Abby. petatv.com/tvpopup/video.asp?video=mepkin&Player=wm
These Monks were cruel here. Please don’t be in such awe, just because someone is a Monk it doesn’t mean they are above the law or even basic cruelty standards.
At the hatchery that supplies birds to Mepkin Abbey, the sensitive tips of birds’ beaks are seared off with a hot blade. This process causes acute and chronic pain, as discussed in PETA’s letter to Mepkin Abbey. Unable to produce eggs and therefore unprofitable to the industry, male chicks are discarded as trash—often suffocated in plastic bags or ground up in a “macerator” while they are still conscious.
At Mepkin Abbey, the monks cram birds into tiny wire “battery cages” that are so small that the animals can’t even spread their wings. Their bones become weak and often break because the birds are unable to exercise them. They never see sunlight, breathe fresh air, or do anything else that is natural and important to them.
Sick and injured hens are often left to suffer. PETA’s investigator observed two hens with broken legs who were removed from a cage by one of the monks and left to suffer on the floor of the barn for at least 45 minutes while the monk continued to perform routine chores.
When the hens’ bodies become so weak that they stop producing eggs, the abbey starves them using a technique called “feed-withdrawal forced molting” in order to shock them into another laying cycle (to increase their economic utility). This practice is so cruel that up to 5 percent of the hens die during the molt, and many of the surviving hens lose all their feathers and much of their body weight.
After every last egg has been squeezed from the birds, Mepkin Abbey ships its hens to gruesome slaughterhouses. There, the hens’ fragile—and possibly already broken—legs are snapped into tight metal shackles and the birds are immobilized (but not rendered insensible to pain) with electrified water. Next, the birds—still conscious but unable to move—have their throats cut open with a metal blade. Many miss the blade and end up at the next stage—the scalding-hot defeathering tank—while they are still able to feel pain.
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bevvy33
Guest
Three interesting points here.Thank you Jim…Finally a thread that states it like it is!!
PETA is a radical, reactionary, lying, instigating, new-age cult. They twist and manipulate the media and laws to bully others into their modernist, new-age philosophy.
Criticizing and bad-mouthing people for eating meat, poultry and seafood - a Gift from God!
PETA - People Eating Tasty Animals. I’m a PETA, you’re a PETA, she’s a PETA, he’s a PETA…wouldn’t you like to be a PETA too.
- It’s not the eating that’s bad, although there are pros and cons, it is the torture of the animals that is bad. meat, poultry and sea creatures are a gift from God, not to be tortured!
- You also said something about a famine? If all Americans became vegetarian, it would free enough grain to feed 600,000,000 people (the population of India). The grain it takes to feed one cow is enough to feed 10 people.
- Something about “New Age?” Here is a quote from GOD: Genesis CH 1 (NAB)
29 God also said: “See, I give you every seed-bearing plant all over the earth and every tree that has seed-bearing fruit on it to be your food;
30 and to all the animals of the land, all the birds of the air, and all the living creatures that crawl on the ground, I give all the green plants for food.” And so it happened.
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Farmgal
Guest
The moral dilemma is not with eating animals, but with factory farming, which degrades the value of the animal and the dignity of those who are supposed to “husband” them. Even the term “animal husbandry” suggests a tender care for the critters, one that was practiced for eons before some folks decided to make the animals into cheap and abundant food machines. Nobody set out to be cruel, they just set out to feed more and more people, and in their quest for the bottom line, left the dignity of Creation behind in the manure lagoon.
The whole corn/beef argument is silly because ruminants were not designed to eat grain, and it is actually very detrimental to THEIR health. Ruminants were made to eat forage (green growing stuff, for you who are not familiar with the term). A bovine sent to the feedlot becomes so lame and ill, if they are not slaughtered they will die anyway from liver failure. Again, it is the quest for fast grown, cheap beef. The result is animal cruelty and unhealthful meat with a fatty acid ratio that contributes to disease in humans. Beef raised the way God intended is as healthful as wild salmon, and is better for the environment, and better for our dignity as humans in relationship to the animals God gave us for food.
As much as I despise factory farming, though, I see a far greater moral problem with taking corn and feeding it to GAS TANKS. It is a horrible misuse of our land and resources to take fields out of food production and use them to make ethanol. People are starving all over the world, and poor families here are finding it harder to eat properly. But that is another story.
Until I develop a rumen or a cecum, I will continue to eat the beef I raise humanely. I would urge those who are troubled by factory farming to seek out local producers of free ranged chickens, grass fed beef, grass fed dairy. It will improve your own health and will also be morally just in encouraging small farms and the dignity of human labor, the dignity of the animals God created. You’ll be saving the environment, preserving farmland, preserving the family farm, and contributing to the kind of animal husbandry God intended.
The whole corn/beef argument is silly because ruminants were not designed to eat grain, and it is actually very detrimental to THEIR health. Ruminants were made to eat forage (green growing stuff, for you who are not familiar with the term). A bovine sent to the feedlot becomes so lame and ill, if they are not slaughtered they will die anyway from liver failure. Again, it is the quest for fast grown, cheap beef. The result is animal cruelty and unhealthful meat with a fatty acid ratio that contributes to disease in humans. Beef raised the way God intended is as healthful as wild salmon, and is better for the environment, and better for our dignity as humans in relationship to the animals God gave us for food.
As much as I despise factory farming, though, I see a far greater moral problem with taking corn and feeding it to GAS TANKS. It is a horrible misuse of our land and resources to take fields out of food production and use them to make ethanol. People are starving all over the world, and poor families here are finding it harder to eat properly. But that is another story.
Until I develop a rumen or a cecum, I will continue to eat the beef I raise humanely. I would urge those who are troubled by factory farming to seek out local producers of free ranged chickens, grass fed beef, grass fed dairy. It will improve your own health and will also be morally just in encouraging small farms and the dignity of human labor, the dignity of the animals God created. You’ll be saving the environment, preserving farmland, preserving the family farm, and contributing to the kind of animal husbandry God intended.
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JimR-OCDS
Guest
The link and article is by PETA, who are hardly non-biased and often dishonest.
Jim
Jim
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Navarricano
Guest
This does indeed seem to be the case. I have little sympathy for PETA and their tactics. This link is old, from when the controversy first started, but it certainly reflects badly on PETA and demonstrates that they don’t seem to be all too clear on the “ethical” part of the way they go about their business.
For example, PETA admitted that some of the footage released in the controversial video actually was not shot at the monastery.
From the linked article:
I haven’t had a lot of time to carefully read through this website, ActivistCash.com, but it does seem to have some interesting and necessary information. Everyone interested in this issue should look at the info it provides as part of their research and form their own judgements.
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JimR-OCDS
Guest
Navarricano
Also, PETA was responsible for releasing the illegally obtained autopsy report on the late Dr. Atkins. They misled the public on what the results actually were. They claimed he was overweight, but the autopsy showed that the extra weight was the result of the drugs he was on while in a coma, which caused fluid build up.
Jim
They did the same thing here in Massachusetts, when we had an trapping ban on the ballot. They showed TV ads of animals caught in steel jawed traps, which haven’t been legal here for 50 years. It turned out the video footage they showed, were old films from the Soviet Union.
Also, PETA was responsible for releasing the illegally obtained autopsy report on the late Dr. Atkins. They misled the public on what the results actually were. They claimed he was overweight, but the autopsy showed that the extra weight was the result of the drugs he was on while in a coma, which caused fluid build up.
Jim
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Sabda
Guest
If you would use a source that is unbiased your argument would be much stronger. Anything from Peta I will completely dismiss simply because they have shown themselves to be dishonorable on way too many occasions. They also do NOT believe in the Christian, Jewish or even Muslim belief in regard to humans having dominion over creation.
The CCC below shows the Christian teaching on animals. Peta is apposed to this.
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Farmgal
Guest
That pretty much sums it up, doesn’t it? The CCC is the final word on how animals are treated. It is just as wrong to tell others they should not eat meat as it is to be deliberately abusive.
Still, we wouldn’t have such a conflict if Old McDonald down the road sold his diverse products to the local market. Had we based agriculture on the Catholic principle of Subsidiarity, we wouldn’t have these factory farms with the incidental neglect and cruelty which upsets so many people. Modern society is the problem, not the monks, or the eggs, meat, and milk…
Still, we wouldn’t have such a conflict if Old McDonald down the road sold his diverse products to the local market. Had we based agriculture on the Catholic principle of Subsidiarity, we wouldn’t have these factory farms with the incidental neglect and cruelty which upsets so many people. Modern society is the problem, not the monks, or the eggs, meat, and milk…
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bevvy33
Guest
So it’s society’s fault that the monks were smothering the baby chicks with imperfections? It’s not the eating of meat that is the problem, it is the horrific abuse of the animals that is the problem. People that supposedly take a vow to treat nature with respect should be above the normal treatment of animals not below. I am no longer interested in discussing this issue with so many people that look at monks and nuns as if they were celebrities with absolutely no accountability. The issue with the monks was not that they were selling eggs or eating meat, it was that they claimed their standards were better than they were, which where I come from is lying to sell a product, monk or not.
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Farmgal
Guest
I know full well that clergy and religious are not necessarily holy. Many are heterodox, or as we have seen with that pastor in Chicago, some even spew hatred and racism from the pulpit. Many priests teach against Humanae Vitae, some deny the True Presence. They are sinners like the rest of us.
I don’t know about the monks, whether the PETA spy is lying himself about what took place. You know a tree by its fruit, and PETA is notorious for fabricating stories and exaggerating abuses to support their extreme radical cause. I do know that the public’s demand for cheap food has led to factory farming and the “bottom line” mentality at the expense of the animals. Had folks not turned a blind eye to the plight of the family farmer over the years, things might be different.
Instead of condemning, I chose to be part of the solution by supporting the small local farms that raise food in humane and healthy conditions. How about you? It might actually cost you twice as much for free ranged eggs. Are you willing to pay that?
Most people I know, when they hear what humanely raised, grass fed beef costs, gripe and complain that they can get meat cheaper in the stores. Or, they accuse the small farmer of ripping them off for $4/dozen eggs. Humane agriculture costs more, and most people won’t put their money where their mouth is, so the abuse continues.
Even so, factory farming is a small abuse compared to the awful crime of abortion, and I have to wonder how many PETA types are perfectly fine with THAT bloodshed?
I don’t know about the monks, whether the PETA spy is lying himself about what took place. You know a tree by its fruit, and PETA is notorious for fabricating stories and exaggerating abuses to support their extreme radical cause. I do know that the public’s demand for cheap food has led to factory farming and the “bottom line” mentality at the expense of the animals. Had folks not turned a blind eye to the plight of the family farmer over the years, things might be different.
Instead of condemning, I chose to be part of the solution by supporting the small local farms that raise food in humane and healthy conditions. How about you? It might actually cost you twice as much for free ranged eggs. Are you willing to pay that?
Most people I know, when they hear what humanely raised, grass fed beef costs, gripe and complain that they can get meat cheaper in the stores. Or, they accuse the small farmer of ripping them off for $4/dozen eggs. Humane agriculture costs more, and most people won’t put their money where their mouth is, so the abuse continues.
Even so, factory farming is a small abuse compared to the awful crime of abortion, and I have to wonder how many PETA types are perfectly fine with THAT bloodshed?
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Sabda
Guest
You still have not provided proof that the monks were harming the chickens. As I stated I will not accept Peta as a source simply because of their history. Others have already provided proof that Peta has lied about what they said about the monks. Why should I except the statement of someone who admits they lied?
Oh, and I don’t know any Catholic that looks to the monks and nuns, as a whole, as if they were celebrities. Why don’t you hold Peta to the same standards as you do the monks? Peta has not exactly been known for it’s kindness to animals.
In case you didn’t read the articles posted, here is what one says about Peta.
Having checked Peta out for myself this is what I have also found out. I will admit that at one point in time I did, in ignorance, provide Peta with regular monetary support. That of course has been stopped based on my research. The bolded quotes are in opposition to the teachings of the Catholic Church. It was because of your link which had Peta tying itself to our Holy Father that made me jump in. I wanted to make sure that others, who might not know better, understood that the teachings of the Catholic Church are not in agreement with Peta.
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Navarricano
Guest
If the monks were not adhering to the laws of the state or industry farming standards, then that is the problem. The evidence suggests that their farming practices adhered to industry standards and all local,state and federal laws. You cannot accuse the monks of deliberately cruel or unethical practices when they were farming within the law.
You may certainly maintain that those laws permit cruelty or do not do enough to eliminate what you regard as unacceptable practices in the egg farming industry, and that they ought to be changed. That is a legitimate posture, but that’s a question of convincing people and changing the laws. And it should be done without lies and manipulation, not the way that PETA did it.
bevvy33;3848899**People that supposedly take a vow to treat nature with respect should be above the normal treatment of animals not below. [/quote said:
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