Scans see 'gay brain differences'

[rlg94086]

Here’s a simple way to test the idea:

Ask yourself; “did I ever consider the alternatives with regard to sexual orientation, and make a decision which one I wanted to be?”

Whether you’re a homosexual or a heterosexual, or whatever is in between, did you ever consider being any of the others, and decide that you wanted to be what you are?

I cannot ever remember deciding to be a heterosexual. It just happened. And although I’ve asked a lot of people, only one (bisexual) actually remembered choosing.

I thought you are a scientist. That isn’t a scientific way to approach the subject - it is purely subjective and anecdotal.

 

[rlg94086]

The church teaches that homosexual orientation is not sinful per se. And the church teaches infallibly. The Church is not wrong in her teaching. Is she absolutely right? Given what we know, I’d say yes, but the Church herself says that it must always examine its teaching in light of advancing knowledge and revelation. So, is she absolutely right in the final analysis, maybe, maybe not. And it is the church herself that teaches us that true religion and true science are never in conflict.

Homosexuals have proportionally higher rates of mental illness and suicide as a group. So why would someone choose a lifestyle that is so ostracized and scorned by the mainstream?

As a strictly heterosexual male, I cannot understand (and I’m sure most other heterosexual men would agree) for the life of me, why anyone would willingly and happily choose such a lifestyle. There has to be some “wires crossed” somewhere. Science is trying to find those “wires”. And maybe uncross them. If they exist.

It is the obligation of science to attempt to answer those questions. And the answers aren’t going to change any church positions. So why not let science do its job and forgo the condemnation or rebuttal till all the facts are known?

The only question I have about the cited study is how does it explain the very feminine lesbian (lipstick lesbians) and the very masculine male who does not fit the stereotype (queen, swishy, etc.?) Science needs to keep looking, and I think we need to pull back and let science do its job.

I agree. It is logical that something biological leads to the experience of same sex attraction.

The conclusions of the study do lead to another interesting question though. If a homosexual man’s brain is “wired” the same as a heterosexual woman, then shouldn’t he prefer a heterosexual man or a homosexual woman? It would seem to me that one fight/flight/mate instinct or brain type would not be attracted to someone with the same instinct or brain type.

 

[gwendes]

I think homosexuality is a sin and find it offensive that anyone would not. Justify your ‘opposition’ anyway you like

Sorry ‘Prayer Warrior’ - to be offended by me liking people regardless of what they decide to do in the bedroom is ridiculous!

You should understand the difference between what you think is right and wrong and what your god thinks is right and wrong.

You should try going to a gaybar or pub, you might enjoy it!

 

[rlg94086]

Sorry ‘Prayer Warrior’ - to be offended by me liking people regardless of what they decide to do in the bedroom is ridiculous!

You should understand the difference between what you think is right and wrong and what your god thinks is right and wrong.

You should try going to a gaybar or pub, you might enjoy it!

Actually, God gives us clear instruction through His Church as to what He “thinks” is right and wrong.
Catechism of the Catholic Church:

Chastity and homosexuality
2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,141 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."142 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

 

[estesbob]

Sorry ‘Prayer Warrior’ - to be offended by me liking people regardless of what they decide to do in the bedroom is ridiculous!

You should understand the difference between what you think is right and wrong and what your god thinks is right and wrong.

You should try going to a gaybar or pub, you might enjoy it!

What I have bolded above applies to you much more than it does me. You came to a Catholic forum -what dd you expect? Did you come here to convince us that homosexual behavior is not a sin or to convince yourself.?

I dont, BTW, go to any bars. As a recovering alchoholic i cant drink. It may very well be that my condition is genetic or perhaps my brain is wired for it. Regardless of how I got this affliction I can always choose not to act on it. One of the ways not to act on it is not to frequest bars

. Of course i guess i could call everyone who believes drunkedness is a sin a bigot and demand that the law be changed so that publci drunkedness is no longer a crime. Perhaps i could even organize some drunk pride parades and demand that being drunk be accorded the same protected status as race, gender and country of National origin. Or perhaps i should humbly accept the cross the Lord has given me to bear and not give in to my desire to drink.

 

[monorail]

I dont, BTW, go to any bars. As a recovering alchoholic i cant drink. It may very well be that my condition is genetic or perhaps my brain is wired for it. Regardless of how I got this affliction I can always choose not to act on it. One of the ways not to act on it is not to frequest bars

. Of course i guess i could call everyone who believes drunkedness is a sin a bigot and demand that the law be changed so that publci drunkedness is no longer a crime. Perhaps i could even organize some drunk pride parades and demand that being drunk be accorded the same protected status as race, gender and country of National origin. Or perhaps i should humbly accept the cross the Lord has given me to bear and not give in to my desire to drink.

Excellent post!

 

[pathia]

. Of course i guess i could call everyone who believes drunkedness is a sin a bigot and demand that the law be changed so that publci drunkedness is no longer a crime. Perhaps i could even organize some drunk pride parades and demand that being drunk be accorded the same protected status as race, gender and country of National origin. Or perhaps i should humbly accept the cross the Lord has given me to bear and not give in to my desire to drink.

Let me start this by saying I’m not meaning you did any of these things as an alcoholic, my father is one and struggles daily himself.

I haven’t heard of many cases of gay guys stumbling around and randomly assaulting people, beating their wives, or causing deaths in car crashes due to their lack of/too much sex.

I have been fired, with no qualms about telling me why, that they fired me very specifically because I was transsexual. It was not performance, there was nothing else, that was the SOLE reason that they fired me, and it is completely and utterly legal in almost all states.

‘Due to your medical and/or physical conditions we cannot continue to employ you due to concerns of resource allocation for your special needs’.

They always sounded something like that. How could anyone think this to be legal? No one knows, no customer was offended by me, merely the management didn’t approve of my lifestyle, so I was fired. This happened THREE times.

The only reason why they even KNEW was because of background checks and my file with HR being flagged because of insurance problems that outted me. I didn’t tell any coworkers or managers anything, I am not ‘out’. They pried into my personal privacy and then FIRED me with what they found.

 

[estesbob]

Let me start this by saying I’m not meaning you did any of these things as an alcoholic, my father is one and struggles daily himself.

I haven’t heard of many cases of gay guys stumbling around and randomly assaulting people, beating their wives, or causing deaths in car crashes due to their lack of/too much sex.

Did you miss the AIDS epidemic?

I have been fired, with no qualms about telling me why, that they fired me very specifically because I was transsexual. It was not performance, there was nothing else, that was the SOLE reason that they fired me, and it is completely and utterly legal in almost all states.

‘Due to your medical and/or physical conditions we cannot continue to employ you due to concerns of resource allocation for your special needs’.

So they had a reason-you just didnt like the reason.

They always sounded something like that. How could anyone think this to be legal? No one knows, no customer was offended by me, merely the management didn’t approve of my lifestyle, so I was fired. This happened THREE times.

I own my own company and as the one who pays the bills I have the right to hire and without having to justify it.

The only reason why they even KNEW was because of background checks and my file with HR being flagged because of insurance problems that outted me. I didn’t tell any coworkers or managers anything, I am not ‘out’. They pried into my personal privacy and then FIRED me with what they found.

Soounds like they didnt want to incur higher insurance premiums because of your employment-that is a problem a lot of us business owners face

 

[pathia]

Did you miss the AIDS epidemic?

So they had a reason-you just didnt like the reason.

I own my own company and as the one who pays the bills I have the right to hire and without having to justify it.

Soounds like they didnt want to incur higher insurance premiums because of your employment-that is a problem a lot of us business owners face

They don’t cover anything involved with my condition, it doesn’t effect premiums what so ever. The reason they fired me was because they didn’t have a bathroom I could use. They speculated that I might just go insane and decide to rape some female coworker in the women’s room, so I couldn’t use that one, and they were afraid some male coworker would lose himself and rape me in the men’s room, so I couldn’t use that one.

So the solution was to fire me. They didn’t try very hard did they? They even had me as employee of the month RIGHT the month before in one of the cases!

Why should they have a right to fire me based on this? It does not effect my work, does not effect customers, does not effect ANYTHING. No one knew anything until they investigated me behind my back.

 

[LCMS_No_More]

I was thinking about how cocaine use before, during or after delivery in mice caused the infant mice to have sexual confusion as they went through adolescence.

With a 30% cesearan rate in the U.S. and just about every single delivery having at least one form of analgesic, if not several, I wonder what affect this has on the newborn’s chemical balance and brain development.

I wonder, if scientists did conclude that homosexual attraction was due to an environmental factor such as the mother snorting coke, saddle blocks, artificial hormones in the water, antibiotics in meat, etc, do you think some people would sue?

I wonder if Ritalin is an issue. I was on Ritalin as a child and it may have contributed to my SSA.

 

[hasikelee]

I wonder if Ritalin is an issue. I was on Ritalin as a child and it may have contributed to my SSA.

It’s not really a pie in the sky speculation. I mean, think of the number of pills the average American takes.

Over 80% of women are on a hormonal replacement therapy.

Last time I checked, 2 out of every 5 boys are on Ritalin

Depression is being spouted as the #1 mental illness, with the average person suffering from depression taking 2-3 medications

All of our foods contain chemicals, preservatives, coloring, antibiotics, synthetic hormones, etc

Seriously, did we all think this century was going to be filled with health and good results?

Anectdotally, I know a coworker takes 3 anti-depressents, a prescribed allergy medication, is wearing Minera (sp) (the uterus screw) taking Yasmin, and has some painkiller medication for her migraines. Talk about knocking your body out of balance!

Another coworker has high blood pressure, is like 80lbs overweight and has mitral valve prolapse. She pops 8 pills daily. I don’t know what they all are though!

 

[pathia]

It’s not really a pie in the sky speculation. I mean, think of the number of pills the average American takes.

Over 80% of women are on a hormonal replacement therapy.

Some of us require it. Just like SOME kids might need ritalin, I suspect it is insanely overprescribed though.

I don’t make enough hormones for either gender. I developed osteoporosis at the age of 19. Some of my bones didn’t grow right, or thick as they are supposed to because of the lack of hormones. My back has already collapsed several disks, and I’m only 28 and I was never a professional athlete. Things just happen. If I didn’t have the meds I do, I would be DEAD. It’s not a speculation, it’s pure truth. If I had lived a hundred years ago I would have died halfway through puberty. I am very lucky to be alive.

Some of the drugs that may have made me a little screwed up, could be what mom had to take when I was pregnant, but if she hadn’t I wouldn’t have even made it out of the womb, and she would have died giving birth to me. I’d much rather have my crosses than be dead, or to have never existed.

 

[rlg94086]

It’s not really a pie in the sky speculation. I mean, think of the number of pills the average American takes.

Over 80% of women are on a hormonal replacement therapy.

Last time I checked, 2 out of every 5 boys are on Ritalin

Depression is being spouted as the #1 mental illness, with the average person suffering from depression taking 2-3 medications

All of our foods contain chemicals, preservatives, coloring, antibiotics, synthetic hormones, etc

Seriously, did we all think this century was going to be filled with health and good results?

Anectdotally, I know a coworker takes 3 anti-depressents, a prescribed allergy medication, is wearing Minera (sp) (the uterus screw) taking Yasmin, and has some painkiller medication for her migraines. Talk about knocking your body out of balance!

Another coworker has high blood pressure, is like 80lbs overweight and has mitral valve prolapse. She pops 8 pills daily. I don’t know what they all are though!

I think the problem with those possible theories is that we know homosexuality has been around since Old Testament times. Because people with SSA have traditionally hidden it and/or suppressed it, we have no way of knowing whether homosexuality is more prevalent today or not. My personal guess is “not.” The difference today is that it is more accepted…even celebrated by many.

 

[gwendes]

You came to a Catholic forum -what dd you expect?

I really don’t know. I’m certainly shocked by what I’ve found some of you are justifing based on the bible. I suppose I thought that people are generally good and even is mislead by religion in general they maintain an inate sense of right and wrong.

estesbob:

Did you come here to convince us that homosexual behavior is not a sin or to convince yourself.?

I don’t think the word sin is very useful. I would guess that you accept the bible as the insipired word of god and so a sin would be a act contrary to what you understand and interpret your gods wants and needs to be. If you accept that then I certainly don’t think it is sinful to be homosexual or behave in a homosexual way. Why would it be? Why would god care? If you want to get hung up on imagining how disgusting and vile it is what people are doing in the privacy of their homes why look not find out what god thinks about all the weird and wonderful things that heterosexual couples get up to, believe me, the bible doesn’t mention them!

estesbob:

I dont, BTW, go to any bars. As a recovering alchoholic i cant drink.

Sorry to hear that.

estesbob:

Perhaps i could even organize some drunk pride parades and demand that being drunk be accorded the same protected status as race, gender and country of National origin. Or perhaps i should humbly accept the cross the Lord has given me to bear and not give in to my desire to drink.

Hmmm, this appears, and correct me if I’m wrong, to be a reference to gay rights. I find it a strange parallel to draw.

If you were gay I’m guessing you’d not give in to your desire to have sex with men, even if you really wanted to?

I enjoy going to gay pubs. I enjoy the fact that I can talk to women without the pressure and assumption being made that I am trying to sleep with them (in fact they usually make the opposite assumption and try to set me up with their flatmate!)

I enjoy relaxing with a drink and not feeling the general wave of agressive heterosexual male behaviour fighting over the girl with the least mascara running down her face.

Sinful? There are nice gay people and horrible gay people, just like there are horrible straight people and nice straight people… you seem to be missing the point that it’s really none of your business. You might even think they’re going to hell - you doing seem open to the possibility that you could be wrong and you’re perhaps just being nasty.

 

[Nickkname]

I really don’t know. I’m certainly shocked by what I’ve found some of you are justifing based on the bible. I suppose I thought that people are generally good and even is mislead by religion in general they maintain an inate sense of right and wrong.

I don’t think the word sin is very useful. I would guess that you accept the bible as the insipired word of god and so a sin would be a act contrary to what you understand and interpret your gods wants and needs to be. If you accept that then I certainly don’t think it is sinful to be homosexual or behave in a homosexual way. Why would it be? Why would god care? If you want to get hung up on imagining how disgusting and vile it is what people are doing in the privacy of their homes why look not find out what god thinks about all the weird and wonderful things that heterosexual couples get up to, believe me, the bible doesn’t mention them!

The way I see it, your problem is - and correct me if I’m wrong - is you think you know more about God than the Church dose. Sorry, buddy, but you don’t. And you seem to not even care what the Scriptures says and what the Church teaches. Also, I can make a good guess that you’ve already chosen to reject the Church’s teachings and keep on living in sin. That’s too bad. You probably don’t care \what other people will tell you about sin or the Church or whatever, so I’ll just end this by saying I’ll keep you in my prayers. God bless.

 

[gwendes]

The way I see it, your problem is - and correct me if I’m wrong - is you think you know more about God than the Church dose.[sic] Sorry, buddy, but you don’t.

You are mistaken. I don’t really understand where you’re getting the idea that anyone knows that a) there is a god at all b) we understand what he/she/it wants. I was posing theoretical questions based on the assumption that there is a god.

Nickkname:

Also, I can make a good guess that you’ve already chosen to reject the Church’s teachings and keep on living in sin. That’s too bad.

Why am I living in sin? What did I do?

Nickkname:

You probably don’t care \what other people will tell you about sin or the Church or whatever, so I’ll just end this by saying I’ll keep you in my prayers. God bless.

I care very much about claims that people make about the way that the world operates. I am an atheist. I don’t claim to have answered the question of whether or not there is a god I just find it unlikely based on observations that I make it the world. I certainly hope that the god you postulate does not exist. Presumably you think that everything is facutal in the bible or your justification for describing others as sinful falls apart?

How would you feel if I described you or your religious friends as sinful against any other deity? Has every other religion got it wrong?

The problem I have is that you’ve already rejected reason and logic in your arguments as they simply don’t apply - you have accepted that the truth is held in a single source and don’t understand, can’t comprehend, the idea that there is a chance you are wrong.

 

[jman507]

Why am I living in sin?

Given that you do not believe there is a God, I’d like to know exactly how you define sin from the Catholic perspective?

As to nickname, if someone rejects the Gods, as well as the Church, logically a person wouldn’t think they would be living in sin, because that person doesn’t believe in sin, at least with respect to God.

 

[gwendes]

Given that you do not believe there is a God, I’d like to know exactly how you define sin from the Catholic perspective?

It’s a sin not to believe? Wow. What if you were born somewhere that hasn’t been exposed to Catholicism?

As I understood you were safe if you lead a good life… doesn’t seem very fair!

jman507:

As to nickname, if someone rejects the Gods, as well as the Church, logically a person wouldn’t think they would be living in sin, because that person doesn’t believe in sin, at least with respect to God.

Exactly. I certainly believe that you can do bad things and that to do bad things is wrong but the idea of divine judgement, although appealing in some respects, isn’t something that I believe in. Unfortunately good things happen to bad people and bad things happen to good people - I see no reason to invoke an all powerful overlord.

If there is a god I’m sure he’d understand my reasoning

 

[jman507]

It’s a sin not to believe? Wow. What if you were born somewhere that hasn’t been exposed to Catholicism?

As I understood you were safe if you lead a good life… doesn’t seem very fair!

Sorry for the misunderstanding, I would like to know what you believe sin is according to the Catholic Chuch? I wasn’t asking if it was a sin not to believe.

 

[rlg94086]

It’s a sin not to believe? Wow. What if you were born somewhere that hasn’t been exposed to Catholicism?

As I understood you were safe if you lead a good life… doesn’t seem very fair!

Exactly. I certainly believe that you can do bad things and that to do bad things is wrong but the idea of divine judgement, although appealing in some respects, isn’t something that I believe in. Unfortunately good things happen to bad people and bad things happen to good people - I see no reason to invoke an all powerful overlord.

If there is a god I’m sure he’d understand my reasoning

Regardless of who is correct, there is only one Truth. As Catholics, we speak of what we know (i.e. believe with strong faith) to be the Truth. As an atheist (or agnostic), you state what you believe (guess) to be the Truth. We can not both be correct.

Therefore, you are subject to divine judgment from God, regardless of whether you personally believe in Him or not…if He exists.

As far as other religions…
Catechism of the Catholic Church:

**The Church and non-Christians **
[839](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/839.htm’) "Those who have not yet received the Gospel are related to the People of God in various ways."325
The relationship of the Church with the Jewish People. When she delves into her own mystery, the Church, the People of God in the New Covenant, discovers her link with the Jewish People,326 "the first to hear the Word of God."327 The Jewish faith, unlike other non-Christian religions, is already a response to God’s revelation in the Old Covenant. To the Jews “belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises; to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ”,328 "for the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable."329
[840](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/840.htm’) And when one considers the future, God’s People of the Old Covenant and the new People of God tend towards similar goals: expectation of the coming (or the return) of the Messiah. But one awaits the return of the Messiah who died and rose from the dead and is recognized as Lord and Son of God; the other awaits the coming of a Messiah, whose features remain hidden till the end of time; and the latter waiting is accompanied by the drama of not knowing or of misunderstanding Christ Jesus.

841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day."330
[842](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/842.htm’) The Church’s bond with non-Christian religions is in the first place the common origin and end of the human race:
All nations form but one community. This is so because all stem from the one stock which God created to people the entire earth, and also because all share a common destiny, namely God. His providence, evident goodness, and saving designs extend to all against the day when the elect are gathered together in the holy city. . .331

[843](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/843.htm’) The Catholic Church recognizes in other religions that search, among shadows and images, for the God who is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and wants all men to be saved. Thus, the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as "a preparation for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life."332
[844](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/844.htm’) In their religious behavior, however, men also display the limits and errors that disfigure the image of God in them:
Very often, deceived by the Evil One, men have become vain in their reasonings, and have exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and served the creature rather than the Creator. Or else, living and dying in this world without God, they are exposed to ultimate despair.333
[845](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/845.htm’) To reunite all his children, scattered and led astray by sin, the Father willed to call the whole of humanity together into his Son’s Church. The Church is the place where humanity must rediscover its unity and salvation. The Church is “the world reconciled.” She is that bark which “in the full sail of the Lord’s cross, by the breath of the Holy Spirit, navigates safely in this world.” According to another image dear to the Church Fathers, she is prefigured by Noah’s ark, which alone saves from the flood.334