Scapular

[Mannyfit75]

So the picture of Mary and the picture of the thorny heart is a symbol of what you believe in?
Where is God or Christ’s death on the cross represented in those images?

Actually, I rarely seen an picture of Mary with thorny heart. The thorny heart is from the Sacred Heart of Jesus.

The images of the Immaculate Heart of Mary depicts with a rose and sword piercing her heart.
http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/CLI/17432~Sacred-Heart-of-Mary-Posters.jpg

The sword in her heart is from the Bible itself:

Luke 2: 35

“And a **sword will pierce through your own soul **also, and the thoughts out of many hearts may be revealed.”

 

[misslollipops]

I like to add what Prayer_Warrior said, and I shall quote St. Ignatius of Antioch:

In other words, the bishop or his representative a priest can consecrate the Eucharist. If your minister is not ordain by a bishop, your Holy Communion is not really the Body and Blood of the Lord. Since there is valid laying down on hands. There is a lack of Apostolic Succession.

If you truly wish to received the Body and Blood of the Lord, you are better off returning to the Catholic Church, or the Eastern Orthodox Church. There Jesus is Truly Present.

I love your quote where it says “Where ever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church.” In fact that is probably one of the best quotes you ever posted.
So actually what that Saint is saying is whenever two or more are gathered, Jesus is there. So there is the Catholic church. Sounds like I have been going to the catholic church for some time now!
However, I do not belong to the ROMAN catholic church. That is a different entity.

 

[rpp]

So the picture of Mary and the picture of the thorny heart is a symbol of what you believe in?
Where is God or Christ’s death on the cross represented in those images?

I do not believe in symbols. But I can appreciate them.

There so are many symbols of various aspects of faith. Why not enjoy, appreciate and meditate on some of them. After all, they are symbols, like words are symbols for sounds and ideas.

Christ’s sacrifice on the cross, His death and resurrection, God’s love, mercy and justice, they are all there.

Why be limited to an empty cross?

 

[Mannyfit75]

I love your quote where it says “Where ever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church.” In fact that is probably one of the best quotes you ever posted.
So actually what that Saint is saying is whenever two or more are gathered, Jesus is there. So there is the Catholic church. Sounds like I have been going to the catholic church for some time now!
However, I do not belong to the ROMAN catholic church. That is a different entity.

Indirectly you are. You are baptized in the Trinitarian formula. By your baptism you made yourself a member of the Mystical Body of Christ. So in indirect way, you are a member of My Church despite that you are no longer Catholic.

St. Ignatius of Antioch is the disciple of St. John, the Apostle.

 

[misslollipops]

I do not believe in symbols. But I can appreciate them.

There so are many symbols of various aspects of faith. Why not enjoy, appreciate and meditate on some of them. After all, they are symbols, like words are symbols for sounds and ideas.

Christ’s sacrifice on the cross, His death and resurrection, God’s love, mercy and justice, they are all there.

Why be limited to an empty cross?

My bible says do not make any graven images. Do not bow to them or worship them. Ex 20:4-5
My Savior is no longer on the cross. He is risen and is seated at the right hand of the Father

 

[rpp]

My bible says do not make any graven images. Do not bow to them or worship them. Ex 20:4-5
My Savior is no longer on the cross. He is risen and is seated at the right hand of the Father

What a fascinating coincidence, my Bible says the very same thing. So neither I nor any other Catholic do those things worship any idols or images. But we are inspired by and them. We allow them to help us understand the richness of God’s great gift to us. Because God has done so much and continues to bless us, and so many others, is very different and unique ways.

Tell me, do you have a photograph or drawing of a person, place or thing? Do you have a picture of your parents or children?

 

[Mannyfit75]

My bible says do not make any graven images. Do not bow to them or worship them. Ex 20:4-5
My Savior is no longer on the cross. He is risen and is seated at the right hand of the Father

But without the cross there is no resurrection. Did not Paul said in 1 Corinthians Chapter 1 verse 23,

“but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block who are called, both Jews, and Greeks, Christ the power of God and wisdom of God.”

Yes we do believe Jesus rose from the dead and is now at the Right Hand of God. The crucifix you see in the Church merely calls into mind his death and resurrection.

For without his death, we would not be saved. The cross my friend is a reminder for all Christians, that we too must bare our own crosses in life.

 

[misslollipops]

What a fascinating coincidence, my Bible says the very same thing. So neither I nor any other Catholic do those things worship any idols or images. But we are inspired by and them. We allow them to help us understand the richness of God’s great gift to us. Because God has done so much and continues to bless us, and so many others, is very different and unique ways.

Tell me, do you have a photograph or drawing of a person, place or thing? Do you have a picture of your parents or children?

Yes I do have pictures of people I love. However, I do NOT have a kneeler in front of those pictures where I bow and pray to them

 

[misslollipops]

But without the cross there is no resurrection. Did not Paul said in 1 Corinthians Chapter 1 verse 23,

“but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block who are called, both Jews, and Greeks, Christ the power of God and wisdom of God.”

Yes we do believe Jesus rose from the dead and is now at the Right Hand of God. The crucifix you see in the Church merely calls into mind his death and resurrection.

For without his death, we would not be saved. The cross my friend is a reminder for all Christians, that we too must bare our own crosses in life.

I have a cross around my neck. There is no body on it. For the tomb is empty and He is risen.
The cross I wear is no relic. It is an indication to others that I am a Christian

 

[Mannyfit75]

I have a cross around my neck. There is no body on it. For the tomb is empty and He is risen.
The cross I wear is no relic. It is an indication to others that I am a Christian

The crosses in most Churches are no relic. They are mere representation of the original.

 

[Pier]

Yes I do have pictures of people I love. However, I do NOT have a kneeler in front of those pictures where I bow and pray to them

Do you ask people you love and trust to pray FOR you? Do people ever ask you to pray FOR them?

Asking a saint to intercede is the same as a prayer chain where a number of people are asked to pray for a person in need.

 

[misslollipops]

Do you ask people you love and trust to pray FOR you? Do people ever ask you to pray FOR them?

I don’t ask dead people to pray for me.
And dead people don’t ask me to pray for them either.
That would be necromancy

 

[heisenburg]

Miss.

As well as all others…

I respectfully request that this not degrade into a the catholic church teaches this, no we dont… what about this… etc…

So far, we have discussed graven images, mary and the immaculate heart, is the bible believed in the church, the eucharist, praying to the saints…

I don’t appreciate shot gun tactics, and am offended by them

And very few posts on the scapular… I did get my answer, and accept. Miss, you accepted the answer as well…

The Scapular in and of itself does nothing and was never taught as such by the church… it is merely an outward symbol representing the promise we make to Christ… Wearing it is more like saying I promise to keep Christ’s words… I show this promise by wearing this scapular.

But the scapular holds NO magical powers.

As mentioned, I had faith there was a valid answer, and once again the Church has not let me down. I was wrong in my initial understanding of a scapular. And I have been corrected…

Miss… I am sorry you were taught imporperly… I am happy though you did find Christ as you indicate. That being said, even if you don’t agree with style, there is nothing in the Catholic Church that is against scripture… You may not like the way it is done, but it isn’t anti-biblical.

But I leave that to you to research. Check out the CA Library… there is a link to it at the top of the page…
I’ll give you a few topics to start with…
Mary and the saints
Supremacy of the Church, Papacy
Sacraments

There are plenty of others… Even if you dont agree with the church, it is good to atleast know what it teaches. Not what you were sadly misinformed by a bad Catholic School

In any case… If no one wishes to continue discussing the Scapular, then split oft the various threads that have already begun, and close this Thread…

As Far as I am concerned, My question is answered and my faith that the Catholic Church, headed by the Pope in Rome, did not disappoint me

To each of you in Christ

 

[Pier]

I have a cross around my neck. There is no body on it. For the tomb is empty and He is risen.
The cross I wear is no relic. It is an indication to others that I am a Christian

Then what did Christ mean at the Last Supper when he said, “Do this in memory of me?”

 

[misslollipops]

Then what did Christ mean at the Last Supper when he said, “Do this in memory of me?”

This is a topic for another thread but I’ll answer anyway.
He meant every time you break bread remember His death on the cross.

 

[Mannyfit75]

I don’t ask dead people to pray for me.
And dead people don’t ask me to pray for them either.
That would be necromancy

Men and women who died in Christ aren’t dead. God is the God of the Living not the dead.

They maybe separated from their bodies, but their souls are united with Christ in heaven. We are a part of this communion of saints. It doesn’t end even if we die. Necromancy is summoning the dead. We aren’t summoning anyone. We are merely asking the saints in heaven to pray for us.

None of the honor we bestow upon them (even Mary) is above God. God is always kept in our hearts when as others to pray for us on our behalf.

 

[Pier]

This is a topic for another thread but I’ll answer anyway.
He meant every time you break bread remember His death on the cross.

He said, “This IS my body - This IS my blood”…

& when we pray, to say, “Give us this day our** DAILY** BREAD”…

Which is the sacrament made available EVERY DAY during the Holy Mass.

 

[Prayer_Warrior]

He said, “This IS my body - This IS my blood”…

& when we pray, to say, “Give us this day our** DAILY** BREAD”…

Which is the sacrament made available EVERY DAY during the Holy Mass.

“For from the rising of the sun, even to its setting, my name is great among the nations; And everywhere they bring sacrifice to my name, and a pure offering; For great is my name among the nations, says the LORD of hosts.” Mal 1:11. Hmmm. That sounds so unlike the Sunday only worship offered at X protestant church.

From the rising of the sun, even to its setting… a pure offering… sounds like daily Mass.

 

[misslollipops]

Men and women who died in Christ aren’t dead. God is the God of the Living not the dead.

They maybe separated from their bodies, but their souls are united with Christ in heaven. We are a part of this communion of saints. It doesn’t end even if we die. Necromancy is summoning the dead. We aren’t summoning anyone. We are merely asking the saints in heaven to pray for us.

None of the honor we bestow upon them (even Mary) is above God. God is always kept in our hearts when as others to pray for us on our behalf.

Are you sure those people you pray to are in heaven?
And Are you sure that God likes you praying to those people who have died and may or may not be in heaven?

 

[misslollipops]

“For from the rising of the sun, even to its setting, my name is great among the nations; And everywhere they bring sacrifice to my name, and a pure offering; For great is my name among the nations, says the LORD of hosts.” Mal 1:11. Hmmm. That sounds so unlike the Sunday only worship offered at X protestant church.

From the rising of the sun, even to its setting… a pure offering… sounds like daily Mass.

I desire mercy not sacrifice. Matt 9:13, Hosea6:6