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Prayer_Warrior
Guest
It sounds like some new threads need to be opened. What you post here has nothing to do with the Mass which offers up the only acceptable Sacrifice (that is, the Sacrifice of Christ). Also, on asking prayer of saints in heaven being necromancy-- that is also false. Modern day Christians have hijacked and redefined that word in an effort to justify their postition on intercessory prayer of the Church Triumphant. Also, you could start at thread about the authority of the Church to declare saints-- authority given by Christ Himself.
You may have had false teaching about the scapular, for which I am sorry. However, it was a teaching which at some point you became responsible to check out yourself. Instead of learning what the Church truly teaches, you left. If you are concerned about false teaching, look up what “necromancy” means in the dictionary. You’ll discover that you have been falsely taught by whoever it is that is teaching you now.
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Mannyfit75
Guest
Necromancy is summoning the dead or demons.
Wikipedia defines Necromancy as the following:
The Catholic Church itself condemns necromancy.
Catechism of the Catholic Church states,
2116 All forms of divination are to be rejected: recourse to Satan or demons, **conjuring up the dead **or other practices falsely supposed to “unveil” the future. Consulting horoscopes, astrology, palm reading, interpretation of omens and lots, the phenomena of clairvoyance, and recourse to mediums all conceal a desire for power over time, history, and, in the last analysis, other human beings, as well as a wish to conciliate hidden powers. They contradict the honor, respect, and loving fear that we owe to God alone.
2117 All practices of magic or sorcery, by which one attempts to tame occult powers, so as to place them at one’s service and have a supernatural power over others - even if this were for the sake of restoring their health - are gravely contrary to the virtue of religion. These practices are even more to be condemned when accompanied by the intention of harming someone, or when they have recourse to the intervention of demons. Wearing charms is also reprehensible. Spiritism often implies divination or magical practices; the Church for her part warns the faithful against it. Recourse to so-called traditional cures does not justify either the invocation of evil powers or the exploitation of another’s credulity.
Before any Non-Catholics accuses the Church of necromancy, you ought to look up what it means and what the Catholic Church teaches on divinations and magic. She condemns both.
Wikipedia defines Necromancy as the following:
To compare praying to the saints to necromancy is illogical. Because with we pray for the saints and ask them to pray for us, we are not summoning them. We are asking them to pray for us, and be united with us in prayer to God.
The Catholic Church itself condemns necromancy.
Catechism of the Catholic Church states,
2116 All forms of divination are to be rejected: recourse to Satan or demons, **conjuring up the dead **or other practices falsely supposed to “unveil” the future. Consulting horoscopes, astrology, palm reading, interpretation of omens and lots, the phenomena of clairvoyance, and recourse to mediums all conceal a desire for power over time, history, and, in the last analysis, other human beings, as well as a wish to conciliate hidden powers. They contradict the honor, respect, and loving fear that we owe to God alone.
2117 All practices of magic or sorcery, by which one attempts to tame occult powers, so as to place them at one’s service and have a supernatural power over others - even if this were for the sake of restoring their health - are gravely contrary to the virtue of religion. These practices are even more to be condemned when accompanied by the intention of harming someone, or when they have recourse to the intervention of demons. Wearing charms is also reprehensible. Spiritism often implies divination or magical practices; the Church for her part warns the faithful against it. Recourse to so-called traditional cures does not justify either the invocation of evil powers or the exploitation of another’s credulity.
Before any Non-Catholics accuses the Church of necromancy, you ought to look up what it means and what the Catholic Church teaches on divinations and magic. She condemns both.
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misslollipops
Guest
False teaching?
20 minutes ago I was in my mothers car and guess what she has just above the rear view mirror.
That’s right a SCAPULAR.
And you know what it says right on the picture on Mary with outstreched arms?
“WHOEVER DIES WEARING THIS SCAPULAR WILL NOT SEE ETERNAL FIRE”
I just read it for myself so whoever is producing that thing is spreading lies and false teaching.
There is no way that thing can keep you out of hell.
Sin is what sends you to hell.
The only way to cleanse your sin is through repentance and the blood of Jesus.
That picture of Mary does nothing.
It has no power to cleanse you of your sin!
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maurin
Guest
Miss Lollipops,
I would love to respond to this last post of yours. I would love to, but I fear that you wouldn’t even attempt to listen.
Am I wrong?
I would love to respond to this last post of yours. I would love to, but I fear that you wouldn’t even attempt to listen.
Am I wrong?
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misslollipops
Guest
Bring it.
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maurin
Guest
Answer my question first, please.
Am I wrong that you won’t attempt to listen to what is being said, instead of what you already have preconceived?
Am I wrong that you won’t attempt to listen to what is being said, instead of what you already have preconceived?
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misslollipops
Guest
Are you going to say something?
I’m waiting
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maurin
Guest
well, then. If you change your mind, you know my userid.
Good night.
Good night.
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Prayer_Warrior
Guest
Please give me the CCC number (or any official Catholic document) that says “Whoever dies wearing a scapular will not see eternal fire”. I searched the online catechism for the word “scapular” and it didn’t even come up. Perhaps you’ll have better luck. Again, we are talking about official Catholic teaching. Sacramentals are expressions of piety, our reaching out to God, so to speak… it is in that “reaching out” that we receive Grace, not from some magic ju-ju power contained within the sacramental.
You are right that a picture of Mary will not save you nor will Rosary beads save you. We are saved by God’s grace through faith. It is only the Blood of the Lamb that gives us the opportunity to be saved. However, a large divergence of our theologies occurs when we start talking about God conferring His Grace upon us (through our faith). Protestants tend to believe that our sins are merely cloaked by the Blood of the Lamb. Catholics believe that our souls are actually sanctified by God before we go to heaven. What does this have to do with scapulars, you may ask. We can do things that open our souls to His grace. This is a far cry from earning it-- for all God’s grace is unmerited by us. However, we can tell God, by our actions that we love Him and are opening our souls for His Holy Spirit to just pour down His Grace into our souls. For you, it was “taking Jesus as Lord and Savior”… but that is the beginning, not the end. After we receive the gift of faith, we must let it work in love (or it is dead faith). There are endless possibilities for living our faith. If I pray the Rosary, that is a contemplation of Christ’s life, death and Resurrection. The beads do nothing, the prayer does. Wearing a scapular does nothing, but the decision to conform ourselves to the virtues that were so beautifully exemplified by Mary, the Mother of Our Lord, does do something.
I agree that the statement “whoever wears this scapular…” is misleading to the uninstructed. However, there is a whole lot more to it than just picking up a scapular and putting it on. My understanding is that when you decide to follow this devotion, you make a vow to lead a virtuous life, living in chastity according to your station. Assuming that you still have the faith (if you are still wearing the scapular, I would assume you still have your faith) AND you keep your vow and lead a virtuous life, I should think you would be saved.
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misslollipops
Guest
Scapular is probably not in the Catechism.
But scapulars exist and people believe in them for salvation. I know because I carried one for years.
I was under a false teaching that is why I am so against them.
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lak611
Guest
I wear a scapular too, but I must be in a state of grace for it to have any effect on me. It is a reminder to me of how I need to live, not a magic potion. If I live a sinful life, it is worthless.
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misslollipops
Guest
The scapular does nothing it is worthless
You are saved by grace through faith.Eph2:8
Not by scapular, lest any scapular should boast
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Eileen_T
Guest
Numbers 15:37-40
*The Lord also said to Moses: Speak to the children of Israel, and thou shalt tell them to make to themselves fringes in the corners of their garments, putting in them ribands of blue: That when they shall see them, they may remember all the commandments of the Lord, and not follow their own thoughts and eyes going astray after divers things, But rather being mindful of the precepts of the Lord, may do them and be holy to their God. *
It is in this same biblical sense that I wear a scapular, as many posters here have testified, not out of superstition (or ignorance!), but in order to **remember all the commandments of the Lord, and not follow their own thoughts and eyes going astray after divers things, But rather being mindful of the precepts of the Lord, may do them and be holy to their God. **
*The Lord also said to Moses: Speak to the children of Israel, and thou shalt tell them to make to themselves fringes in the corners of their garments, putting in them ribands of blue: That when they shall see them, they may remember all the commandments of the Lord, and not follow their own thoughts and eyes going astray after divers things, But rather being mindful of the precepts of the Lord, may do them and be holy to their God. *
It is in this same biblical sense that I wear a scapular, as many posters here have testified, not out of superstition (or ignorance!), but in order to **remember all the commandments of the Lord, and not follow their own thoughts and eyes going astray after divers things, But rather being mindful of the precepts of the Lord, may do them and be holy to their God. **
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Eileen_T
Guest
The only Catholic who would not agree that we are saved by grace through faith would be an ignorant and badly catechized one. Probably the sort who will leave the CC to find Jesus, mistaking the envelope for the Word.The scapular does nothing it is worthless
You are saved by grace through faith.Eph2:8
Not by scapular, lest any scapular should boast
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lak611
Guest
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Prayer_Warrior
Guest
Well, we all know they exist, I’m asking you to show me that your understanding of them is what the Church officially teaches about them.
You are against scapulars as far as you understand them… but you’ve already said you were falsely taught, so maybe you really don’t understand them, after all?
Just curious… who was it that instructed you regarding scapulars? Clergy or layperson?
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misslollipops
Guest
The scapular itself has the very words on it.
See post #64
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lak611
Guest
The only words on mine are “Our Lady of Mt. Carmel, pray for us” and “St. Simon Stock, pray for us”.
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imamom
Guest
I have the Brown Scapular, being a member of the Blue Army (World Apostolate of Fatima). Proud to have it around my neck and am so glad of the promises it contains.
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