Scapular

[Prayer_Warrior]

The scapular itself has the very words on it.

Yes, I know. If you were following the devotion there is a process for that… who instructed you on what is behind the scapular and what your responsibilities were. You are supposed to be enrolled by a priest or other authorized person. They were supposed to tell you:

The Carmelite Scapular is not:

a magical charm to protect you
an automatic guarantee of salvation
an excuse for not living up to the demands of the Christian life

It is a sign:

which has been approved by the Church for over seven centuries;
which stands for the decision to
follow Jesus like Mary:
be open to God and to his will
be guided by faith, hope, and love
to pray at all times
to discover God present in all that happens around us.

So, who gave you your instruction?

 

[imamom]

A link
worldfatima.com/english/home.html

Hope this helps!

 

[misslollipops]

Yes, I know. If you were following the devotion there is a process for that… who instructed you on what is behind the scapular and what your responsibilities were. You are supposed to be enrolled by a priest or other authorized person. They were supposed to tell you:

So, who gave you your instruction?

My whole family has these things.
I’ve seen them for 25 years. I don’t remember who instructed me.
I do know that of the many people who have them they think they have some salvific value. And there is no Salvific value to wearing a scapular. You will not go to heaven BECAUSE you wear a scapular when you die.
You get to heaven by God’s grace through faith in Jesus. Eph2:8-9
Mary has nothing to do with it.

 

[misslollipops]

I have the Brown Scapular, being a member of the Blue Army (World Apostolate of Fatima). Proud to have it around my neck and am so glad of the promises it contains.

What promises does it contain?

 

[misslollipops]

The only words on mine are “Our Lady of Mt. Carmel, pray for us” and “St. Simon Stock, pray for us”.

You are not going to make me take a picture of this thing are you?
You’ll never be able to see the print anyway.
It’s there. I have no reason to lie.

 

[lak611]

You are not going to make me take a picture of this thing are you?
You’ll never be able to see the print anyway.
It’s there. I have no reason to lie.

I am not lying. I am wearing a Brown Scapular right now. I know what the pictures are and what the writing says. You need to repent for your false witness.

 

[misslollipops]

I am not lying. I am wearing a Brown Scapular right now. I know what the pictures are and what the writing says. You need to repent for your false witness.

Do you think there are different types of scapulars?
Is it within the realm of possiblity that YOU have one type which says one thing but the one MY MOTHER has says exactly what I stated. Is it possible. Or are you pulling my leg by asking me to repent. Please say you’re pulling my leg.

 

[lak611]

Do you think there are different types of scapulars?
Is it within the realm of possiblity that YOU have one type which says one thing but the one MY MOTHER has says exactly what I stated. Is it possible. Or are you pulling my leg by asking me to repent. Please say you’re pulling my leg.

Yes, there are different types of scapulars, but the one you are referring to with the promises is the Brown Scapular, associated with the Carmelites. I am not pulling your leg. I am telling the truth.

 

[misslollipops]

Yes, there are different types of scapulars, but the one you are referring to with the promises is the Brown Scapular, associated with the Carmelites. I am not pulling your leg. I am telling the truth.

Well Laura, I am not going outside to my mother’s car to take a picture of a piece of paper to prove something to you.
I am a Christian and it is not my habit of lying.
Her scapular says “Whoever dies while wearing this scapular will not see eternal fire” over the picture of Mary. If you don’t believe me, I can’t help you.

 

[lak611]

Well Laura, I am not going outside to my mother’s car to take a picture of a piece of paper to prove something to you.
I am a Christian and it is not my habit of lying.
Her scapular says “Whoever dies while wearing this scapular will not see eternal fire” over the picture of Mary. If you don’t believe me, I can’t help you.

I have never seen a Brown Scapular with that inscription actually printed on it, and I have been to several stores and also on-line. If you are claiming that this inscription is on it, you are under the burden of proof to show some evidence.

 

[misslollipops]

I have never seen a Brown Scapular with that inscription actually printed on it, and I have been to several stores and also on-line. If you are claiming that this inscription is on it, you are under the burden of proof to show some evidence.

I would rather not discuss this with you any further.
Thanks for all your (name removed by moderator)ut though.

 

[bpbasilphx]

<>

PROMISE?

I’ve noticed that when people are asked to prove their anti-Catholic or anti-Orthodox claims they frequently try to retire, claiming they don’t want to discuss it further.

 

[bpbasilphx]

<<Or are you pulling my leg by asking me to repent. Please say you’re pulling my leg.>>

Are you saying you DON’T have to repent, or that you have nothing to repent of?

The infallible Word of God says that if YOU, misslollipops, say you have no sin, you deceive yourself, and the truth is not in you.

 

[Leopard]

False teaching?
20 minutes ago I was in my mothers car and guess what she has just above the rear view mirror.
That’s right a SCAPULAR.
And you know what it says right on the picture on Mary with outstreched arms?
“WHOEVER DIES WEARING THIS SCAPULAR WILL NOT SEE ETERNAL FIRE”
I just read it for myself so whoever is producing that thing is spreading lies and false teaching.
There is no way that thing can keep you out of hell.
Sin is what sends you to hell.
The only way to cleanse your sin is through repentance and the blood of Jesus.
That picture of Mary does nothing.
It has no power to cleanse you of your sin!

A little context may help you.

According to tradition, Our Lady appeared to St Simon Stock, a Carmelite monk, and said to him “Hoc erit tibi et cunctis Carmelitis privilegium, in hoc habitu moriens salvabitur” (This shall be the privilege for you and for all the Carmelites, that anyone dying in this habit shall be saved).

Now think for a second, what does it mean, to die in the Carmelite habit? I’ll give you a hint, it has nothing to do with what items of clothing a person may be wearing at the end of his life. It is a metaphor which means to faithfully live the Carmelite Rule to the end of one’s life. In modern secular culture we have a similar metaphor for soldiers, police officers and firefighters who faithfully execute their duties to the end of their lives, especially if they die heroically in the performance of those duties. We say that they “died in uniform.”

Again, this has nothing to do with whatever clothing a soldier or police officer may be wearing when he dies. A soldier who is awakened and dies defending his post before he can dress or an off duty police officer or firefighter who respond to an emergency in their civies when they are killed are honored just as much for dying in uniform as their fallen comrades who actually were wearing their uniforms. Conversely, a deserting soldier or a renegade police officer who is killed in the commission of a crime are not honored as “dying in uniform”, even if they were wearing it when they died. The Uniform isn’t about the clothes, it’s about what the clothes represent.

A Carmelite’s (and other Religious Orders’) Uniform is his habit, the scapular being the part worn over the shoulders and across the breast and back. By long standing custom, persons who are not professed members of the Carmelite Order (or other Religious Orders) may become associated with that Order, joining their prayers and acts of faith with those of that Order, and living in conformity to that Order’s rule and spirituality according to their particular state in life. In secular terms, this may be compared to the Civil Air Patrol, whose members are not military members of the Air Force, but who cooperate with the Air Force’s Mission in ways appropriate for civilians.

Such persons associating with the Carmelites or some other Religious Order may sometimes wear an abbreviated version of that Order’s habit, usually a scapular. And again, the habit isn’t about the clothes, it’s about what the habit represents. To “wear” or “die in” the Carmelite habit means to live faithfully according to the Carmelite Rule and Carmelite spirituality according to one’s state in life. Persons who do so truly “wear the scapular” and if they faithfully persevere to the end, “die in the scapular” even if they are not physically wearing one on their bodies. For lay persons not professed in the Carmelite Order, this really involves nothing more than what all Christians are called to: love God, stay close to Him through prayer, Worship Him at Mass faithfully, make frequent use of the Sacraments, honor Our Lady and the rest of the saints, obey the commandments, do pennance, practice works of mercy. When Our Lady said those who “die in this habit” will not see eternal fire, she meant that those who live this Carmelite spirituality faithfully to the end of their lives will not see eternal fire, whatever clothes they may be wearing.

(continued)

 

[Leopard]

(continued)

Conversely, a person who wears a scapular on his body but does not live in conformity with this Carmelite spirituality is not really “wearing the Carmelite habit” and does not avail himself of the benefits of such any more than a person who wears surplus army clothes, but is not an enlisted or commissioned soldier, is really “wearing the uniform” of the soldier and is not entitled to the benefits relating to that.

Finally, as we have shown, “wearing the scapular” is not about the clothing, but about what the clothing represents. Does this mean that the physical scapular garment is valueless? Not any more than the uniform of the soldier or police officer. That uniform serves as a sign of the soldier’s or the Officer’s authority, to others and to that soldier or officer himself. Also, it includes the weapons and other tools that that soldier or officer uses to effectively do his job. Similarly, the brown scapular is not the magic Go-directly-to-Heaven-do-not-pass-Go-do-not-collect-$200 card that some mistakenly accuse Catholics of using, but it is a sign. Usually this sign is for the individual alone as the brown scapular is usually worn privately, beneath one’s outer clothing. It is a private sign reminding us who we are, in whose army we have enlisted, and whose Church we have the duty “to serve and protect”. And as a sacramental approved by the Church, there are graces associated with the scapular to assist those who wear this habit in the performance of their duty.

 

[misslollipops]

<<Or are you pulling my leg by asking me to repent. Please say you’re pulling my leg.>>

Are you saying you DON’T have to repent, or that you have nothing to repent of?

The infallible Word of God says that if YOU, misslollipops, say you have no sin, you deceive yourself, and the truth is not in you.

Maybe you should read the thread to see what we are talking about.

 

[misslollipops]

(continued)

Conversely, a person who wears a scapular on his body but does not live in conformity with this Carmelite spirituality is not really “wearing the Carmelite habit” and does not avail himself of the benefits of such any more than a person who wears surplus army clothes, but is not an enlisted or commissioned soldier, is really “wearing the uniform” of the soldier and is not entitled to the benefits relating to that.

Finally, as we have shown, “wearing the scapular” is not about the clothing, but about what the clothing represents. Does this mean that the physical scapular garment is valueless? Not any more than the uniform of the soldier or police officer. That uniform serves as a sign of the soldier’s or the Officer’s authority, to others and to that soldier or officer himself. Also, it includes the weapons and other tools that that soldier or officer uses to effectively do his job. Similarly, the brown scapular is not the magic Go-directly-to-Heaven-do-not-pass-Go-do-not-collect-$200 card that some mistakenly accuse Catholics of using, but it is a sign. Usually this sign is for the individual alone as the brown scapular is usually worn privately, beneath one’s outer clothing. It is a private sign reminding us who we are, in whose army we have enlisted, and whose Church we have the duty “to serve and protect”. And as a sacramental approved by the Church, there are graces associated with the scapular to assist those who wear this habit in the performance of their duty.

Awesome explanation. Thank you.
An explanation like this should be put in each scapular sold.
I could think of five people who have these scapulars and have no idea of what you just stated.
As a matter of fact when I was told to carry one of these things, I was told nothing of the sort. Only that if I wore it when I died I would go straight to heaven. And I carried it for years.
I guess it was my own fault for trusting someone else without searching the scriptures like the bereans.
Although I don’t think I could find any scriptural support for a scapular. Thanks again

 

[imamom]

What promises does it contain?

St John Paul II Multi Academy – St John Paul II Multi Academy

johnpaulii.co.uk

Btw, go to the link here for this:

Benefits

1. You know you are fulfilling Our Lady’s conditions to obtain the conversion and the peace of Christ for the world.
2. You obtain numerous indulgences through the Rosary and the Scapular.
3. You become eligible for the spiritual graces of Our Lady of Mount Carmel. Graces in this life, at the hour of death, and after death.
4. Your name is sent to Fatima and buried near the apparition site.
5. You share in the prayers of millions of members.
6. You become a spiritual child of Saint Pio.
7. You participate in the New Evangelization proposed by the Holy Father.

 

[maurin]

Leopard,

God bless you for your patience and your explanation.

Clearly, the Scapular is only a tool to keep one focussed on the Lord and the Salvation He offers, and not some talisman.

I loved your explanation. Thank you for your posts.

 

[Prayer_Warrior]

My whole family has these things.
I’ve seen them for 25 years. I don’t remember who instructed me.
I do know that of the many people who have them they think they have some salvific value. And there is no Salvific value to wearing a scapular. You will not go to heaven BECAUSE you wear a scapular when you die.
You get to heaven by God’s grace through faith in Jesus. Eph2:8-9
Mary has nothing to do with it.

So, you say the Church falsely taught you, but now you don’t remember who it is that taught you? You keep referencing people (family) who have the scapulars who still do not understand their meaning. Could it be that your family misinstructed you and not the Church? That statement “whoever dies wearing this…” is a quote from the Blessed Virgin Mary in a private revelation. No Catholic is bound to believing private revelations— that is the official teaching of the Church.

If indeed Mary, the Mother of Our Lord, made that promise, then it is only applicable if the person wearing the scapular keeps up their end of the promise. Leopard beautifully articulated my previous post: the scapular is a sign of what is going on inside someone. You (and the others you referenced) should not have proceeded with this devotion without instruction. It would be like someone praying the Rosary and not realizing that while you say the prayers you are supposed to be meditating on the mysteries of Christ.

You keep quoting Eph 2:8 It is by Grace, through faith you have been saved. This is exactly what Catholics proclaim (unlike most protestants who say "you are saved by faith alone). God’s Grace comes to us through our faith (well, except for initial grace which is when we are given the gift of faith). Our faith is sort of a conduit, so to speak. When we pray the Rosary or inwardly change to a virtuous life when we wear a scapular, we do as an act of faith and we receive Graces from God. Faith is not merely intellectual assent that Christ is the Son of God!! Faith is alive, and there are literally thousands (if not millions) little and large acts of faith that we can do in our lives. This is called faith working in love. But do not be deceived, our acts of faith are cooperation with God-- they do not actually do the “saving”-- it is God’s Grace, unmerited by us but freely given through Christ, that saves.