Scariest and Most Depressing thing I have read

[Dorothy]

Bob,

I don’t know if it was on this forum or another, but I remember someone with the same name as you and the same way of thinking. It took a long time, but you came around. It sounds like it is you again, and I hope and pray that your way of looking at things will go away again and stay away by the grace of God.

It just looks like your way with words paints yourself into a corner.

We can’t snap our fingers and expect God to work in us in a way that we want Him to.

Saints reach the pinnacle of holiness by their trust in God in spite of difficulties, dark nights, and many crosses. Mystics are made so that we can be encouraged. God loves us all infinitely and wants to be loved back. Trust Him. We have enough evidence to do so. Console Him in the Garden of Gethsemane, don’t wait for Him to console you!

Peace!

Dorothy

 

[BobCatholic]

If God has never spoken to you, how do you know that he does not want you?

Suppose I was a single guy looking for a good wife. I meet a girl. She refuses to talk to me. Does she want me?

Let’s say my wife gives me the silent treatment. Am I in trouble? Yes. So when God gives me the silent treatment, I’m not in trouble?

Now I’m trying to approach the bridegroom. He refuses to talk to me. Does he want me?

You seem to want what our great saints have had. But are you willing to sacrifice all your heart, body and soul the way they did?

How can I do that if 1) I’m not given the ability to do that and 2) I don’t know God as they did?

Another approach:

Read the story of Moses and the Burning Bush and ask yourself, do you really want God to speak to you? What if His words are similar as the word spoken to Moses. Are you ready and willing to walk into Egypt and demand freedom for your people? Are you ready and willing to give all your money to the poor? Are you ready to sacrifice your live?

God may speak to you some day and perhaps in ways you do not expect.

You’re right on this. God talked to Moses because he expected him to do something awesome and required it of him.

God won’t talk to me because he knows I’m going to be a miserable failure and will not be able to do what he asks.

Maybe I should just be happy with my corporate relationship with God and never hope for a personal one.

 

[BobCatholic]

Saints reach the pinnacle of holiness by their trust in God in spite of difficulties, dark nights, and many crosses.

Because God actually gave them consolations and strength to do so. None for me. I am nothing but a worthless piece of dust, and not wanted by God.

Trust Him. We have enough evidence to do so.

I see 100% evidence God cares about our spiritual needs and provides for them. I have 100% trust there.

I see 0% evidence God cares about my temporal needs and is willing to protect me from evil here on earth. Any pleasant things I am of the impression God begrudgingly gives. But unpleasant, no problem, you gotta carry your cross mere mortal!

In fact, he holds us temporally responsible for the sins of Adam and Eve. How am I supposed to trust God in that area of my life?

Console Him in the Garden of Gethsemane, don’t wait for Him to console you!

How do I do that? And if he has no obligation or willingness to console me, how is that loving? In other words, I must do something loving for him but he doesn’t have to do it for me? It is only unrequited love that I must have?

 

[clem456]

Anxiety is the tool of Satan. That being said, good can come from it if we give it to God.

Peace I leave with you, my peace I give to you.

Consider: you can’t get yourself to heaven anyway. So why worry about it? What are you going to do about it? Nothing.
It is all accomplished by God’s providence and grace.

We are to work out our salvation with (healthy) fear and trembling, but anxiety has no place. The work you do is to please God and say yes to his offer of salvation, not to gain compensation.
Cast your salvation on the Lord Jesus, and cooperate with him as best as possible, and leave anxiety to the unbelievers.

 

[BobCatholic]

Anxiety is the tool of Satan. That being said, good can come from it if we give it to God.

Why does God want something like that?

Consider: you can’t get yourself to heaven anyway. So why worry about it?

I have to worry!!! This is an eternity of horrible suffering! If God doesn’t want me, what makes you think he’s going to let me in? And if God doesn’t want me, why would i want to be with someone who hates me?

What are you going to do about it? Nothing.

If you’re trying to talk me out of despair, it is not working.

It is all accomplished by God’s providence and grace.

God’s grace yes.

God’s providence, depends.
If this is about spiritual stuff, OK.
If this is about temporal stuff, game over, answer is a clear no.

We are to work out our salvation with (healthy) fear and trembling, but anxiety has no place. The work you do is to please God and say yes to his offer of salvation, not to gain compensation.
Cast your salvation on the Lord Jesus, and cooperate with him as best as possible, and leave anxiety to the unbelievers.

Not looking for compensation, looking for a way to survive until I am able to figure things out. I can’t figure things out by myself, so I need God to talk to me. But he won’t, so I’m screwed.

 

[clem456]

Why does God want something like that?

I’m sorry, I didn’t make it past this. What are you asking?
Why does God want us to be anxious?

He doesn’t want us to be anxious.
That’s not what I was trying to say at all.

Maybe it is what you believe. Is that what you believe, that God wants you to live in anxiety?

 

[BobCatholic]

Is that what you believe, that God wants you to live in anxiety?

God wants us to carry a cross.

What is the cross? Anything unpleasant. Anxiety included. Suffering.

This is the will of God.

Life is to be filled with suffering and be horrific.

 

[clem456]

God wants us to carry a cross.

What is the cross? Anything unpleasant. Anxiety included. Suffering.

This is the will of God.

Life is to be filled with suffering and be horrific.

The alternatives to carrying the cross are as follows:

1. Denying you there is one for you to carry.
   Good luck avoiding suffering. No one (literally…no one) is exempt from suffering.
2. Refusing to carry it in good faith.
   That is certainly your choice. The outcome is worse for you in that case, as your suffering destroys your peace. Why would you want to suffer more???

I don’t get it. You bemoan your suffering, then say you don’t want to deal with it.

 

[BobCatholic]

The alternatives to carrying the cross are as follows:

1. Denying you there is one for you to carry.
   Good luck avoiding suffering. No one (literally…no one) is exempt from suffering.

I know that we have no choice but to suffer.

God does not care about our temporal needs.

1. Refusing to carry it in good faith.
   That is certainly your choice. The outcome is worse for you in that case, as your suffering destroys your peace. Why would you want to suffer more???

I don’t get it. You bemoan your suffering, then say you don’t want to deal with it.

How does one “carry it in good faith”? It won’t alleviate suffering, so “suffering more” is not going to happen.

Yes, I bemoan my suffering, it is the only guaranteed thing in life. It sends the message that if good things happen, it is only because God begrudgingly gives it.

 

[clem456]

I know that we have no choice but to suffer.

God does not care about our temporal needs.

How does one “carry it in good faith”? It won’t alleviate suffering, so “suffering more” is not going to happen.

Yes, I bemoan my suffering, it is the only guaranteed thing in life. It sends the message that if good things happen, it is only because God begrudgingly gives it.

Well, ok, we all make choices.

 

[BobCatholic]

Well, ok, we all make choices.

What choice?

I don’t have a choice.

You didn’t answer my question: How does one “carry it in good faith”? It won’t alleviate suffering, so “suffering more” is not going to happen.

 

[guanophore]

I don’t get it. You bemoan your suffering, then say you don’t want to deal with it.

You have just achieved the most useful insight about this particular member. Let all the readers of the thread beware, you can post to the 1000 limit, and this is where you will find yourselves.

 

[littlestsouls2]

for 1) is there a PDF download somewhere? I want to read this offline.

I cannot ascend to God, if he does not want me.

I want to let myself be carried to him since I cannot do it myself, but I don’t see the carrying being done.

Any movement towards God is a grace. Trust, and you will receive more grace.

Here is a PDF: archive.org/details/TheWayOfDivineLove (go to ‘Download Options’ on the right, then click PDF)

 

[frangiuliano115]

But by the time we get to that moment, it is too late to repent. The die has been cast. There is no chance to repent at that moment.

It is God’s way of shoving in our face how utterly we failed him.

If there was that second chance to repent (which the Church does not teach this), then there is no need to repent in life.

Of course you’re right that the church does not teach the above. I don’t think anyone caught it and can’t go back to check, but okay. The church cannot control everything that is written to make sure it complies to church teaching and this cannot even be expected.

I would hope, though, that we do not get ourselves all mixed up about our theological beliefs. We MUST stick to what the bible says and what the CCC says when clairification is needed. In our own personal mind, we could believe what we want, but it should not be posted as a teaching. it could really get newcomers mixed up.

You’re well on your way with posters that are doing a great job of helping you BobCatholic so I’ll be out of the way. However, I would like to tell you that the negativity you’re feeling sounds a lot to me like depression. I’m not a dorctor, but having had personal experience I feel I have the right to speak. It could even be low-grade and sometimes you’re not even aware that you have it. It colors you’re whole life, and the colors are not bright. It makes God seem far away. It makes you feel separate from Him. A bad feeling - I know. Satan takes advantage of every situation he can. These are the times when you’re to shout your affirmation that you will not leave God. Whether you hear from Him or not, whether He feels close or not, whether you think He’s near or not. You just have to KNOW he’s near. Faith is not a feeling - it’s a knowing.

My mother didn’t hear from my father for 3 years during WWII. But she knew he existed and HOPED he would return. God must have spoken to you at some point in your life if you still think about Him. It might have been in a soft voice that was hardly audible. But here you are on this thread - so I know His grace is working in you, however quiet it might be. And if we never feel His return again? So what. We go on anyway and affirm to satan that God is our God and not he.

How b eautiful the faith of some little old women I see in church. They know nothing about theology, nothing about the bible, nothing about the CCC, but they pray at the feet of Jesus, never having heard from Him, but clinging to HIM and the real hope of seeing Him one day.

God bless you
Fran

 

[guanophore]

I would hope, though, that we do not get ourselves all mixed up about our theological beliefs. We MUST stick to what the bible says and what the CCC says when clairification is needed. In our own personal mind, we could believe what we want, but it should not be posted as a teaching. it could really get newcomers mixed up.

I find myself amazed to see you write this.

 

[clem456]

Of course you’re right that the church does not teach the above. I don’t think anyone caught it and can’t go back to check, but okay. The church cannot control everything that is written to make sure it complies to church teaching and this cannot even be expected.

I would hope, though, that we do not get ourselves all mixed up about our theological beliefs. We MUST stick to what the bible says and what the CCC says when clairification is needed. In our own personal mind, we could believe what we want, but it should not be posted as a teaching. it could really get newcomers mixed up.

Because…?
You think “newcomers” are not capable of comprehending the Gospel??

This is both condescending and an abdication of the responsibility to proclaim the Gospel. Scripture and the Church’s teaching are easily accessible to anyone.

 

[HelenRose]

Suppose I was a single guy looking for a good wife. I meet a girl. She refuses to talk to me. Does she want me?

Let’s say my wife gives me the silent treatment. Am I in trouble? Yes. So when God gives me the silent treatment, I’m not in trouble?

Now I’m trying to approach the bridegroom. He refuses to talk to me. Does he want me?

How can I do that if 1) I’m not given the ability to do that and 2) I don’t know God as they did?

You’re right on this. God talked to Moses because he expected him to do something awesome and required it of him.

God won’t talk to me because he knows I’m going to be a miserable failure and will not be able to do what he asks.

Maybe I should just be happy with my corporate relationship with God and never hope for a personal one.

It does become your choice to continue with this line of reasoning. Despair is the evil one’s weapon, not the weapon of our Savior. The gifts of our Savior are Faith, Hope and Love.

Try the circle of Faith, Hope and Love. When I lose Faith, I can Hope. When I can’t Hope, I can Love. I alone choose to Love or not Love so I choose Love. When I have Love I have Faith and when I Faith I have Love.

Love Christ. Love God. He has spoken to all of us through the Scriptures and through the Church. Read the scriptures. God is speaking to you. Study Church Teachings, God is speaking to you. Don’t ignore the words He is saying to you.

You remind of the person who is stepping over a dollar to pick up a dime. You want something you can’t have while refusing the gifts that have been given to you in abundance.

 

[frangiuliano115]

I find myself amazed to see you write this.

Why? You think I’m a heretic?

Don’t be so amazed guanophore.

You don’t know me, nor have you understood anything about me.

 

[frangiuliano115]

Because…?
You think “newcomers” are not capable of comprehending the Gospel??

This is both condescending and an abdication of the responsibility to proclaim the Gospel. Scripture and the Church’s teaching are easily accessible to anyone.

Clem!

You thing everybody who reads these threads have read the gospels and letters and know christian theology?

You’re entitled to think my statement is condescending and I’m entitled to say that something should not be posted as doctrine that is NOT.

 

[minkymurph]

Avoid schismatic groups and those near-schismatics who constantly bash the Catholic Church. This is especially recommended if one suffers from scrupulosity or anxiety issues.

Good advice.