Scheidler: Jenkins Remains Utterly Immovable on ND 88 Says talking to Jenkins about the issue like talking to a "stone"

[Domer1997]

I’m not sure what “another voice” meant when stating if “Notre Dame was affilitated with the Catholic Church”…of course it’s a Catholic school. That make no sense.

Here’s the factual events witnessed by my sources who were there. First, Notre Dame is private property of the Congregation of Holy Cross. Notre Dame DOES NOT allow any protests on campus unless led by students and even then they must request to hold the protest. Never, ever, ever are parties that are not current students ever allowed to protest on campus UNLESS they affiliate themselves with a student organization who is protesting.

ND Response was a group of about 15 student organizations who protested on campus and went through the proper procedures to protest on campus. ND Response and Bishop D’Arcy urged anyone wanting to protest TO ONLY protest with the ND Response team during their designated and scheduled protest. The ND Response protest drew over 3,000 with some amazing pro-life speakers like Fr. William Miscamble, CSC, and Fr. Pavone for Priests for Life.

The ND 88 did not listen to D’Arcy’s request to abide by university rules and join the ND Response protests. They instead protested on their own…and on private property that has obvious rules about protests (very strict rules). They were VERY KINDLY asked to leave and stop the protests by both ND police and South Bend police. Actually, the police certainly did not want to arrest them…they pleaded with them to leave peacefully since they were not students and were not allowed to protest (THIS IS FACT). They refused. The ND 88 were being defiant and if they were merely praying the rosary, they would not have been asked to leave. They were obviously protesting. With the Blessed Sacrament open and available in the Basilica and over 50 chapels on campus the ND 88 could have easily prayed in front of the Blessed Sacrament (and not have protested) and have never gotten arrested. Praying in front of the Blessed Sacrament in any one of the university’s many chapels would have been MUCH more beneficial and appropriate to the pro-life cause.

It was like they were trying to make ND look horrible by disobeying rules and making ND look like the bad guy. Notre Dame has to be very strict regarding their protesting rules. They arrested cross-country traveling gay-rights marchers two years ago for protesting on campus as well. It’s just simply NOT ALLOWED for the safety of the students. Protests lead to revolts and can cause injury to students that is why they need to be requested in writing…and by students only (WHICH IS WHAT THE STUDENTS DID!!!).

The Notre Dame students held wonderful, prayerful protests that really were very very successful. It’s a shame that the ND 88 didn’t just go in with ND Response. They would have been much more beneficial to their cause and had been obeying what D’Arcy requested of all third party members.

These are the facts…I will not state my sources but they are not remotely deviating from the actual truth…I can promise that to all readers.

I hope the ND88 are let go freely. However, it is completely up to Mr. Dvorak the St. Joseph County Prosecutor. It’s not in the hands of Father Jenkins. That’s probably why he is so cold on the subject. He’s stated over and over that it is completely in the hands of Dvorak…if you don’t believe this call St. Joseph County and here it for yourself.

In good news, Notre Dame and Jenkins are in the process of instituting very concrete pro-life initiatives on campus: newsinfo.nd.edu/news/14371-notre-dame-task-force-on-life-makes-preliminary-recommendations

So, if anyone is wondering, Notre Dame as an institution is very Catholic, very pro-life as well as Jenkins. I will not agree to Obama getting an honorary degree. That makes me sad. However, I know that there’s too much goodness at Notre Dame to dwell on that.

God Bless to all of you

 

[Domer1997]

You’re wasting your time by protesting Jenkins to drop charges…it’s completely out of his hands.

PROTEST THIS GUY: stjoepros.org/

That’s the only way anything will get accomplished. He’s in charge of the case…not Jenkins.

 

[Catholic29]

Regardless of who’s in the wrong or right…this case is obviously resulting in more unintended consequences for Notre Dame and the Catholic Church in the long term…far beyond what fines or jail time the ND 88 may receive.

Very sad…uch:

 

[reggieM]

I appreciate the details you’ve provided.

They were VERY KINDLY asked to leave and stop the protests by both ND police and South Bend police. Actually, the police certainly did not want to arrest them…they pleaded with them to leave peacefully since they were not students and were not allowed to protest (THIS IS FACT).

Since the protest occurred on private property, the police did not have to arrest them unless the owners of the property wanted them arrested. If Fr. Jenkins said that the ND88 should not be arrested, then they wouldn’t have been – since they merely violated campus rules and not civil laws.

The ND 88 were being defiant and if they were merely praying the rosary, they would not have been asked to leave. They were obviously protesting.

That may be true, but I didn’t see it that way. One lady was holding a sign of Our Lady of Guadalupe’s image – I wouldn’t consider that a violent protest. Plus, I think most people are looking at the sub-text, not the legal issues. The sub-text is that these were just ordinary, good Catholics, who are concerned about pro-abortion politicians getting awards from Catholic facilities. In my view, they’re the ones who should be getting awards and not getting arrested. They are our friends – and should be considered such by Fr. Jenkins. But Fr. Jenkins was willing to turn his back on his fellow Catholics in order to bestow honors on Mr. Obama.

Notre Dame has to be very strict regarding their protesting rules. They arrested cross-country traveling gay-rights marchers two years ago for protesting on campus as well.

As above – it’s the context that is important. You’re now comparing them to gay-rights protestors who are against the Church. In this case, it was Fr. Jenkins who violated Church teaching and many, even prominent Catholics and some bishops, made that clear.

But we are expected to obey the ND campus rules, so that Fr. Jenkins can freely disobey Church laws. Then we get arrested for not obeying his private rules and he walks free after defying the norms of the Church.

That’s the injustice and betrayal of ND.

 

[reggieM]

Group protests Notre Dame’s “anti-gay” policies

Interesting to see – nobody got arrested here.

More than 100 students, faculty and community members **walked onto Notre Dame’s campus Wednesday to protest **the university’s anti-discrimination policy and to push for a gay-straight alliance group.

I hope our Domers will see this. It says it all, don’t you think?

 

[Domer1997]

Group protests Notre Dame’s “anti-gay” policies

Interesting to see – nobody got arrested here.

More than 100 students, faculty and community members **walked onto Notre Dame’s campus Wednesday to protest **the university’s anti-discrimination policy and to push for a gay-straight alliance group.

I hope our Domers will see this. It says it all, don’t you think?

No, it doesn’t say it all. Those protestors (many of whom were “community members” in South Bend and not even related to the university) were not going to get arrested because they left. They weren’t allowed in the Main building, so they left. ND88 were asked to stop protesting and they refused. Big difference. PLEASE don’t get me wrong, I’m sure I have much more in common regarding ideology with the ND88 then the marchers from yesterday, but rules are rules. And, we are called to follow rules and be respectful.

 

[unafraid]

I envision Father Jenkins’ as a 16th century cleric inviting Henry VIII (after the split) to speak to his flock as their soveriegn and the head of their church, while the martyrs outside the walls scream out in defiant witness to truth. Father Jenkins chooses to acquiesce to worldly power in this instance, but I hope he hears the muted cries of the slaughtered unborn, the new martyrs, outaside his own walls, and I hope the sounds reach his heart…and change it. The is THE issue of faith for this age. There is a clearly defined moral imperative…stark and vivid. There is no middle position for a cleric to take. None. He’s wrong in every facet of this story. He either lacks faith or courage.

 

[Rach620]

Was there a reason that they couldn’t lawfully protest?

No.

There was a student-sponsored, lawful protest going on throughout Commencement weekend, to which the public were invited to participate. Those who were arrested chose to venture onto other parts of the campus apart from the student-led protests. As “outsiders” to ND, intent on staging their own protest, they had no right to be on that private property. They would have been welcome to come pray the Rosary with us at the Grotto, though.

Group protests Notre Dame’s “anti-gay” policies

Interesting to see – nobody got arrested here.

More than 100 students, faculty and community members **walked onto Notre Dame’s campus Wednesday to protest **the university’s anti-discrimination policy and to push for a gay-straight alliance group.

I hope our Domers will see this. It says it all, don’t you think?

From my understanding of this incident, it was student-led, and my guess is that the students who organized it (who had been gathering signatures for the petition for years) went through the “proper channels” to gain approval for their demonstration. NDSP prevented them from entering the Main Building, and no one insisted on entering. Students and their guests otherwise have freedom of movement on ND’s campus.

The difference here, from the perspective of ND and ND campus regulations, is that the ND progressive/gay rights demonstration was student-led, while the ND 88 pro-life protesters had no relationship at all with the University.

Look, I’m not happy at all with ND or with Fr. Jenkins. I hope he does what he can to get the St. Joseph County prosecutor to drop charges against the ND 88, though I neither expect it nor see his failure to do so as a sign that he thinks little of the right to life. Fr. Jenkins is not an evil man, nor do we have any evidence that he rejects Catholic teaching on the dignity of human life. The point of disagreement is really one which many in the ND family are familiar with–Fr. Jenkins’ concept of ‘dialogue’ and the “tension between academic freedom and Catholic character”. It’s not that he is not Catholic or not pro-life, but that he sincerely does not see that his actions compromise the Catholicity of Notre Dame, nor does he believe they scandalize the faithful. These are the real issues on which Fr. Jenkins ought to be corrected–the ones which, I believe, Bishop D’Arcy has long been trying to make clear to him. In this sense, the ND 88 matter is a distraction.

 

[tzarno1]

Jenkins is ‘very pro-life’???

Maybe in a symbolic role but I have followed this ‘priest’ for years relative to abortion and he is anything but concerned about aborted babies. He is good for words only.

 

[canadianguy1143]

No, it doesn’t say it all. Those protestors (many of whom were “community members” in South Bend and not even related to the university) were not going to get arrested because they left. They weren’t allowed in the Main building, so they left. ND88 were asked to stop protesting and they refused. Big difference. PLEASE don’t get me wrong, I’m sure I have much more in common regarding ideology with the ND88 then the marchers from yesterday, but rules are rules. And, we are called to follow rules and be respectful.

Maybe so but lets look at things in the GRAND SCHEME OF THINGS. Notre Dame honoring Obama with an honorary doctorate of laws is like the Hebrew University of Jerusalem giving Ahmadinejad an honorary degree for world peace! Maybe the ND88 should have followed procedures or maybe not but the fact that Jenkins won’t drop the charges says volumes about his intentions with regard to abortion. As for your contention that he doesn’t have the authority, I would advise you to read what the Thomas More Society of lawyers has to say about this matter:

thomasmoresociety.org/

Unless you are a lawyer, you should listen to what they say about who can drop the charges!

 

[Domer1997]

Jenkins is ‘very pro-life’???

Maybe in a symbolic role but I have followed this ‘priest’ for years relative to abortion and he is anything but concerned about aborted babies. He is good for words only.

Father Jenkins is a good man and a good priest. I will challenge ANYONE to find any evidence at all about this man ever remotely saying he is not “Pro-Life”. He didn’t have to march with 400 of his Notre Dame students in DC last week, especially with people holding banners against his very self. But, he did. He is brave, and he is good. He is a man of the cloth hand chosen by God for this mission…if only I could be so fortunate.

 

[AnotherVoice]

I’m not sure what “another voice” meant when stating if “Notre Dame was affilitated with the Catholic Church”…of course it’s a Catholic school. That make no sense.

The university is not owned and controlled by the Holy Cross Order, since 1967 it has been controlled by a lay board of trustees. The trustees are to select presidents from the pool of priests that are members of the Holy Cross order. This change was enacted to move the university out from under the control and influence of the Catholic Church.

It is very disappointing to see an attempt to shift blame for the ND88. To imply that it was the decision of the county prosecutor to come on campus, arrest and prosecute only the pro-life demonstrators with ND and Fr. Jenkins being innocent on lookers is very sad. That only serves to further weaken an already damaged reputation.

There are a number of film clips recording Fr. Norm Weslin’s arrest. Please watch one or two of them before describimg authorities pleading with people.

I am reasonably sure that Fr. Weslin does not really care what Fr. Jenkins does regarding dropping the charges. He has gone to jail before and I am sure he will go again; but he will never stop. As he said when arrested “why are you arresting me, I am a priest praying for the lives of babies?”.

 

[Domer1997]

The university is not owned and controlled by the Holy Cross Order, since 1967 it has been controlled by a lay board of trustees. The trustees are to select presidents from the pool of priests that are members of the Holy Cross order. This change was enacted to move the university out from under the control and influence of the Catholic Church.

It is very disappointing to see an attempt to shift blame for the ND88. To imply that it was the decision of the county prosecutor to come on campus, arrest and prosecute only the pro-life demonstrators with ND and Fr. Jenkins being innocent on lookers is very sad. That only serves to further weaken an already damaged reputation.

There are a number of film clips recording Fr. Norm Weslin’s arrest. Please watch one or two of them before describimg authorities pleading with people.

I am reasonably sure that Fr. Weslin does not really care what Fr. Jenkins does regarding dropping the charges. He has gone to jail before and I am sure he will go again; but he will never stop. As he said when arrested “why are you arresting me, I am a priest praying for the lives of babies?”.

Notre Dame is controlled by the 12 Fellows of the University of which 6 of the 12 must AT ALL TIMES be priests of the Congregation of Holy Cross. So, yes, Notre Dame is still controlled and directed by Holy Cross.

ND88 should not have been demonstrating, period… They should have listened to D’Arcy’s request and obeyed university rules to protest with the NDResonse protestors who held a beautiful protest of President Obama.

If you disagree with this, we’ll have to agree to disagree. I stayed at home and prayed several rosaries for Notre Dame and for victims of abortion during this ordeal, and I feel as though this was a very productive approach. Sure beats getting arrested!

 

[RobbyS]

No.

There was a student-sponsored, lawful protest going on throughout Commencement weekend, to which the public were invited to participate. Those who were arrested chose to venture onto other parts of the campus apart from the student-led protests. As “outsiders” to ND, intent on staging their own protest, they had no right to be on that private property. They would have been welcome to come pray the Rosary with us at the Grotto, though.

From my understanding of this incident, it was student-led, and my guess is that the students who organized it (who had been gathering signatures for the petition for years) went through the “proper channels” to gain approval for their demonstration. NDSP prevented them from entering the Main Building, and no one insisted on entering. Students and their guests otherwise have freedom of movement on ND’s campus.

The difference here, from the perspective of ND and ND campus regulations, is that the ND progressive/gay rights demonstration was student-led, while the ND 88 pro-life protesters had no relationship at all with the University.

Look, I’m not happy at all with ND or with Fr. Jenkins. I hope he does what he can to get the St. Joseph County prosecutor to drop charges against the ND 88, though I neither expect it nor see his failure to do so as a sign that he thinks little of the right to life. Fr. Jenkins is not an evil man, nor do we have any evidence that he rejects Catholic teaching on the dignity of human life. The point of disagreement is really one which many in the ND family are familiar with–Fr. Jenkins’ concept of ‘dialogue’ and the “tension between academic freedom and Catholic character”. It’s not that he is not Catholic or not pro-life, but that he sincerely does not see that his actions compromise the Catholicity of Notre Dame, nor does he believe they scandalize the faithful. These are the real issues on which Fr. Jenkins ought to be corrected–the ones which, I believe, Bishop D’Arcy has long been trying to make clear to him. In this sense, the ND 88 matter is a distraction.

If he does not listen to the “his” bishop or to two hundred other bishops, then don’t you think that it might be that he doesn’t want to hear?

 

[RobbyS]

Notre Dame is controlled by the 12 Fellows of the University of which 6 of the 12 must AT ALL TIMES be priests of the Congregation of Holy Cross. So, yes, Notre Dame is still controlled and directed by Holy Cross.

ND88 should not have been demonstrating, period… They should have listened to D’Arcy’s request and obeyed university rules to protest with the NDResonse protestors who held a beautiful protest of President Obama.

If you disagree with this, we’ll have to agree to disagree. I stayed at home and prayed several rosaries for Notre Dame and for victims of abortion during this ordeal, and I feel as though this was a very productive approach. Sure beats getting arrested!

A peaceful protest which entailed no personal risk and seems to have had no effect on Fr. Jenkins. Indeed, it seems to have strengthened his position with the regents.

 

[canadianguy1143]

Father Jenkins is a good man and a good priest. I will challenge ANYONE to find any evidence at all about this man ever remotely saying he is not “Pro-Life”. He didn’t have to march with 400 of his Notre Dame students in DC last week, especially with people holding banners against his very self. But, he did. He is brave, and he is good. He is a man of the cloth hand chosen by God for this mission…if only I could be so fortunate.

Any Priest who thinks giving the most Pro-Abortion President an honorary doctorate of law is not a good Priest. Like I said earlier, imagine the Dean of the Hebrew University in Jerusalem giving a Peace Prize to Ahmadinejad.

 

[Rach620]

If he does not listen to the “his” bishop or to two hundred other bishops, then don’t you think that it might be that he doesn’t want to hear?

I think that Fr. Jenkins honestly believes that on this issue (as well as others relating to the Catholic identity of Notre Dame) his positions amount to a mere difference of opinion on administrative issues. From what he has said, he clearly does not think that his own pro-life beliefs nor the Catholicity of the University are or have been compromised by his decisions.

It is NOT that he is an evil, liberal, pro-choicer intent on eliminating every facet of orthodox Catholicism from ND. It is NOT that he is a bad priest. The real problem is that he has some misguided ideas about what it means to be a Catholic university, and what it means to lead a Catholic university.

As for the peaceful protest having no effect…well, what you have there is the classic debate on whether contemplation or action is more effective. ND Response’s protests were just as prayerful and MORE visible than the protests in which most of the ND 88 were involved. It’s unfortunate that more people “remember the ND 88” than remember the massive ND Response events of commencement weekend–events which involved Eucharistic Adoration, Mass on the quad, a rally for life, the Rosary. Events at which Bishop D’Arcy himself personally attended. It is a warped understanding of what actually took place that causes people to think that the ND 88 protests MUST have been SO much more effective at making the pro-life message known, since they resulted in arrests.

 

[reggieM]

True, but sometimes these controversies shine a light on issues that need to be fixed for the good of all. I would believe that the ND88 are offering their harrassments and various sufferings for the pro-life cause and for the welfare of ND also (and Fr. Jenkins’ salvation). It’s not a good situation, no matter how one might defend various parts of what happened. Simply charity and justice would say that the charges should be dropped.

 

[kimmielittle]

True, but sometimes these controversies shine a light on issues that need to be fixed for the good of all. I would believe that the ND88 are offering their harrassments and various sufferings for the pro-life cause and for the welfare of ND also (and Fr. Jenkins’ salvation). It’s not a good situation, no matter how one might defend various parts of what happened. Simply charity and justice would say that the charges should be dropped.

:clapping:

 

[Domer1997]

I think that Fr. Jenkins honestly believes that on this issue (as well as others relating to the Catholic identity of Notre Dame) his positions amount to a mere difference of opinion on administrative issues. From what he has said, he clearly does not think that his own pro-life beliefs nor the Catholicity of the University are or have been compromised by his decisions.

It is NOT that he is an evil, liberal, pro-choicer intent on eliminating every facet of orthodox Catholicism from ND. It is NOT that he is a bad priest. The real problem is that he has some misguided ideas about what it means to be a Catholic university, and what it means to lead a Catholic university.

As for the peaceful protest having no effect…well, what you have there is the classic debate on whether contemplation or action is more effective. ND Response’s protests were just as prayerful and MORE visible than the protests in which most of the ND 88 were involved. It’s unfortunate that more people “remember the ND 88” than remember the massive ND Response events of commencement weekend–events which involved Eucharistic Adoration, Mass on the quad, a rally for life, the Rosary. Events at which Bishop D’Arcy himself personally attended. It is a warped understanding of what actually took place that causes people to think that the ND 88 protests MUST have been SO much more effective at making the pro-life message known, since they resulted in arrests.

Dear Rach620,
You said perfectly what I’ve been trying to get into words but could not out of frustration. Thank you!