School closing, parents protestIng

[StJudePray4Me]

Several Catholic elementary schools in my Diocese are closing. The Bishop announced which schools a few weeks ago.

Today in the newspaper, there was an article about the parents protesting the Bishop’s decision. Among other things, the parents are threatening an “Empty School = Empty Envelope” campaign.

Basically, if the school closes, they will refuse to make any monetary donations to the Parish.

I am so appalled by this. Perhaps it’s hard for me to understand the depth of their sadness and disappointment regarding the school closure, but doesn’t this smack of the “I’ll take my ball and go home if you won’t play my way” mentality? And who exactly are they punishing by withholding their donations? Their fellow Parishioners, that’s who!

It seems so sad that their faithfulness depends on getting their own way…well, it seems that way to me, based on their reaction to the school closing announcement.

Comments?

 

[KCT]

Great logic - then a school and parish will close!

 

[michaelmas]

Several Catholic elementary schools in my Diocese are closing. The Bishop announced which schools a few weeks ago.

Today in the newspaper, there was an article about the parents protesting the Bishop’s decision. Among other things, the parents are threatening an “Empty School = Empty Envelope” campaign.

Basically, if the school closes, they will refuse to make any monetary donations to the Parish.

I am so appalled by this. Perhaps it’s hard for me to understand the depth of their sadness and disappointment regarding the school closure, but doesn’t this smack of the “I’ll take my ball and go home if you won’t play my way” mentality? And who exactly are they punishing by withholding their donations? Their fellow Parishioners, that’s who!

It seems so sad that their faithfulness depends on getting their own way…well, it seems that way to me, based on their reaction to the school closing announcement.

Comments?

Post what you just did in the Parish Newspaper, bulletin, or local newspaper.

 

[SeaShoreGirl]

Great logic - then a school and parish will close!

A parish school is a vital part of a parish. If the parishioners weren’t warned…which it seems like the decision was made without much of their concent, then I’d say its fair.

In New England, several people couldn’t deal with their church closings. That was very, very wrong as they had other options to worship.

Many of these people are now left with very bad options as far as schooling. The public school system is a wreck. It is a duty of ALL Catholics to educate our children, including those of us who don’t have children. If I were a parent who’d paid full tuition all along and now had to send my kid to a public school, I might do the same thing. I’d still donate money, just not to the CC.

 

[Rico_S]

While I have no idea if these closings were good decisions or were handled appropriately, it is clear that the church/diocese/parish can and do make terrible decisions. Often, the faithful feel that the only real power they wield in influencing such decisions (or in providing feedback) is through the purse.

 

[Joe_5859]

School closings are always painful, but it is simply a product of less and less people sending their kids to Catholic schools. Most dioceses I know of do not make these decisions willy-nilly, but only after a great deal of time and thought. If this is coming from the bishop and involves several closings, it seems likely to me that the decision was the result of much preparation. The bishop has to look at the big picture, and many times we cannot see beyond our own parish and school.

I think a better campaign would be the “Full Envelope = Full School” campaign. If they want to save the school, they need to find the funds to make education at the school affordable to all. Bishops cannot pull money out of thin air.

 

[StJudePray4Me]

A parish school is a vital part of a parish. If the parishioners weren’t warned…which it seems like the decision was made without much of their concent, then I’d say its fair.

In New England, several people couldn’t deal with their church closings. That was very, very wrong as they had other options to worship.

Many of these people are now left with very bad options as far as schooling. The public school system is a wreck. It is a duty of ALL Catholics to educate our children, including those of us who don’t have children. If I were a parent who’d paid full tuition all along and now had to send my kid to a public school, I might do the same thing. I’d still donate money, just not to the CC.

I do understand what you are saying to a point…however,the school closings were announced after a long process of evaluating all the schools in the Diocese. We knew for quite a while that some schools would be closed, we just didn’t know which ones.

My children attend Catholic school as well. We were relieved that our school was not on the list of closings, but I had already made plans to enroll my kids in another Catholic school if it was closed. It would have meant a longer commute, no bus service and higher tuition, but we were prepared to make the sacrifice if necessary.

The closings were based on many factors. From what I understand, it was based on things like enrollment, technology, facilities, fundraising success, and geography. Most of the schools which will closed are physically close to other schools which will remain open.

Our school was spared. Although we are not the largest school in the Diocese, we were ok as far as enrollment and technology…and a large factor was the lack of another school close enough to absorb displaced students.

So although perhaps I don’t understand the depth of their sadness, and perhaps it’s easy for me to say since we were spared…I just feel the parents threatening to withhold support for the Church unless they get their way are being selfish.

 

[DihydrogenOxide]

Stupidity. They’re like a bunch of spoiled children.

Guess which group of catholics these are? Yep! Liberal cafeteria catholics. They probably don’t contribute much to the parish anyway.

 

[dixieagle]

This is always a difficult and painful situation. I have served on several Archdiocesan committees charged with assessing the Catholic school system and making recommendations for closures, consolidations, etc., and emotions always ran high. People become very attached to their parish/school and the mere suggestion of changes or closures elicits loud (understandable) protests. One pastor (ours, actually) simply appointed himself to the committee and started showing up at meetings to safeguard “his” parish school’s interests (a highly successful Blue Ribbon School in a large parish). I wouldn’t have been surprised had fisticuffs broken out at a meeting.

In our situation, after several years of meetings, research, assessments, etc., a plan was presented to the archbishop, who sat on it for a while and then ignored everything completely. It was all a very painful and upsetting process, and those of us on the committee joked that, after seeing how everything worked from the inside, it was amazing we all remained Catholic.

In the years following the final report, the archbishop made several unilateral decisions about closures that bore no resemblance to the long-suffering committee’s recommendations. The decisions, for better or worse, are his to make; just wish I hadn’t invested all that blood, sweat and tears.

 

[StJudePray4Me]

DixieEagle, what a bummer!

I know a few faithful Catholics who also lament that it’s sort of the “Catholic way” sometimes for the Church hierarchy to keep the faithful in the dark and make unilateral decisions… Basically to treat us like children. But I have also wondered what they know that we don’t…you know, like there must be other factors influencing their decisions that we are unaware of. Maybe I am naive, but I try to give them the benefit of the doubt.

 

[dixieagle]

DixieEagle, what a bummer!

I know a few faithful Catholics who also lament that it’s sort of the “Catholic way” sometimes for the Church hierarchy to keep the faithful in the dark and make unilateral decisions… Basically to treat us like children. But I have also wondered what they know that we don’t…you know, like there must be other factors influencing their decisions that we are unaware of. Maybe I am naive, but I try to give them the benefit of the doubt.

In this case, I think the fact that the Archbishop was a native of this area, with longstanding ties to various parishes and people came into play. The new archbishop isn’t a native, though he does come from a neighboring state; he is more of a businessman and fairly dispassionate. We will likely see a new Catholic high school in a neighboring county…as soon as the money is there.

Those who talk about Catholic schools in some Southern states thriving are right.

 

[Joannm]

Changing demographics, poor enrollment, old buildings in need of dire repair, burdensome expense for a parish already in debt…these are good reasons for closing schools. When I was a kid we had 4 classes of each grade level with 60 kids in a classroom. When my friend’s Catholic school closed last year there was a total enrollment of 150 kids. How can a parish expect to keep a school running? Also, many students attending Catholic schools now aren’t even Catholic. They see it as better than the public schools and cheaper than expensive private schools. Also many young parents cannot afford the tuition. These are very valid reasons for a decision to close a school. It is heartbreaking, but to withhold donations to the parish only make it worse. If people donated more, especially those without kids, maybe the schools would be able to be kept open.

 

[SamH]

Several Catholic elementary schools in my Diocese are closing. The Bishop announced which schools a few weeks ago.

Today in the newspaper, there was an article about the parents protesting the Bishop’s decision. Among other things, the parents are threatening an “Empty School = Empty Envelope” campaign.

Basically, if the school closes, they will refuse to make any monetary donations to the Parish.

Being on our parish finance council I can tell you that these are most likely empty threats. Usually the people making them are already extremely low if not nonexistent givers. When no one notices any effects in collections in their “Empty School = Empty Envelope” campaign will they apologize for their acts?

We went through a similar situation when many people protested the building of a new church and the closing of the old church. Collections actually improved.

 

[Luna_Lovecraft]

…the … made several unilateral decisions about … that bore no resemblance to the long-suffering committee’s recommendations. … just wish I hadn’t invested all that blood, sweat and tears.

This is always, always the way with committee work. I will serve on those damnable things if appointed, but I never, ever volunteer to be on one.

Luna

 

[L_piperatus]

We need school vouchers. That’s the long-term solution to falling enrollment numbers in Catholic schools. Many parents simply can’t afford to pay twice for the same service - once through taxes, and then once again through tuition fees.

 

[iloveangels]

We need school vouchers. That’s the long-term solution to falling enrollment numbers in Catholic schools. Many parents simply can’t afford to pay twice for the same service - once through taxes, and then once again through tuition fees.

No. School vouchers would require that we teach what the state tells us to, and have policies like they do. There would be no point in having Catholic schools in that event. It’s a very, very bad idea and opens us up to manipulation.

 

[L_piperatus]

No. School vouchers would require that we teach what the state tells us to, and have policies like they do. There would be no point in having Catholic schools in that event. It’s a very, very bad idea and opens us up to manipulation.

You worry is legitimate in some aspects but I disagree with your final conclusion. School vouchers are an excellent idea. Catholic schools are taking public money in many European countries and they are providing faithfully Catholic education. Same thing with Catholic colleges, hospitals, adoption agencies, and other social services in the USA that are taking public money. When a student uses Pell grant money to go to a Catholic college in the USA, he uses public money, but the government does not impose un-Catholic policies on the Catholic colleges. More recently, the state governments tried to impose immoral stuff on adoption agencies in Massachusetts and Illinois, and rather than agree to place kids with gay couples, those Catholic agencies went out of business. Yet, many other Catholic adoption agencies operate in other states, they use taxpayer money, and they do not compromise on their Catholicity.

There’s no reason why we shouldn’t demand the freedom to take our tax dollars to a school of our own choice, including to a Catholic school if we wish so, and school vouchers are the way to do that.

 

[StJudePray4Me]

You worry is legitimate in some aspects but I disagree with your final conclusion. School vouchers are an excellent idea. Catholic schools are taking public money in many European countries and they are providing faithfully Catholic education. Same thing with Catholic colleges, hospitals, adoption agencies, and other social services in the USA that are taking public money. When a student uses Pell grant money to go to a Catholic college in the USA, he uses public money, but the government does not impose un-Catholic policies on the Catholic colleges. More recently, the state governments tried to impose immoral stuff on adoption agencies in Massachusetts and Illinois, and rather than agree to place kids with gay couples, those Catholic agencies went out of business. Yet, many other Catholic adoption agencies operate in other states, they use taxpayer money, and they do not compromise on their Catholicity.

There’s no reason why we shouldn’t demand the freedom to take our tax dollars to a school of our own choice, including to a Catholic school if we wish so, and school vouchers are the way to do that.

Actually, think the adoption agency thing illustrates the opposite… That the government funding allows them to dictate policy, and so the whole organization had to close! So If we took government funding and the state said “you have to teach homosexuality is OK and discuss birth control in health class” the school says no way, and has to close??

 

[L_piperatus]

Actually, think the adoption agency thing illustrates the opposite… That the government funding allows them to dictate policy, and so the whole organization had to close! So If we took government funding and the state said “you have to teach homosexuality is OK and discuss birth control in health class” the school says no way, and has to close??

Wrong again - you concentrate on 2 states (MA, IL) that infringed on Catholic freedom and forget the other 48 that did not. If I would take this kind of defeatist attitude in everyday life, I wouldn’t leave my house because there’s a chance that another car would hit me on the road or whatever. How about the Catholic adoption agencies in the other 48 states, adoption agencies that do take taxpayer money and do a good job consistent with Catholic values?

Another thing you misunderstand, is this: those adoption agencies that were told, “if you take taxpayer money, you must place children into gay households”, were not forced by the government to close. Those adoption agencies were free to reorganize so as to operate only on private donations. The Catholic school equivalent is this: if Catholic schools will receive tax dollars through school vouchers, but then a new administration tells them that they must teach immoral stuff, those Catholic schools will still be free to reject tax dollars and return to operating solely on privately paid tuitions.

Here’s the third thing you forget: Catholic colleges operate today, using tax dollars in the form of Pell grants, and they do not take orders from the government regarding what to teach. If some hypothetical future government will tell Catholic colleges that they must teach immoral stuff as a prerequisite of receiving tax dollars (Pell grants), the Catholic colleges will simply get out of the business of receiving students on Pell grants. However, in the meantime, there are many talented students who attend Catholic colleges on Pell grants, students who could not afford to pay from their own pockets.

I suggest that instead of taking the defeatist attitude that “let’s not even try to legalize school vouchers, because they may come with strings attached”, we take a proactive attitude and let our political representatives know that we want school vouchers and we also want the Catholic identity of our Catholic institutions respected. If essentially a similar system can operate and does operate today in Catholic colleges (only those “school vouchers” are called “Pell grants” instead), why couldn’t it operate just as successfully in Catholic schools?

There is a movement for school vouchers in states like FL and IN, and I think they are doing the smart thing. I as a taxpayer certainly don’t approve of the servile and defeatist attitude according to which the state can take my tax dollars and then herd my children into public schools - no, I want to take my tax dollars with me, to a school of my choice, including a private Catholic school!

 

[L_piperatus]

Here’s something to think about: if school vouchers would become available across the US and an extra 2 million children per year would take the opportunity to attend Catholic schools, that would bring in to the Catholic school system, using an average figure of $5000/per voucher for a school year, an extra $10 billion per year!

Now all we need is stop this lethargic attitude and fight for our rights - including the right to have control over how and where our tax dollars are spent. School choice, and school vouchers, take away the control on tax dollars from state and federal bureaucrats, and give it back to where it should belong: to the parents. It’s just preposterous that the state takes my tax dollars but then when it comes to giving school service to my children in return for my money, the bureaucrats in state or federal governments think that they have a right to tell me where exactly my children should be educated, what exactly they should be taught, and how exactly my own money (my tax dollars!!!) should be spent.