School nativity plays under threat

[gilliam]

Shepherds dressed in old sheets, Christmas carols and the competition to see who will play Mary and Joseph… nativity plays have been a feature of British primary-school life for generations. But a survey has revealed that headteachers are watering down or ditching the centuries-old Christmas story in favour of secular tales to avoid upsetting pupils of other faiths. Only one in five schools are planning to perform a traditional nativity play this year. They are now outnumbered by schools that say they will be either putting on a non-religious play, such as Scrooge or Snow White, or giving no performance at all.

 

[stbruno]

The school districts in our area, don’t even allude to Christmas, it’s called a WINTER FEST. Sad but a sign of our secularism.

 

[Wolseley]

Are the students of other faiths required to take part in, or attend, productions of a Christian religious nature? No?

Case dismissed. Bailiff, next case.

Apparently it’s okay to offend Christian children by cancelling Christmas plays, just as long as the non-Christian children aren’t offended by the same plays.

 

[Kaninchen]

It should be remembered that Church schools are ubiquitous and part of the state sector in the UK (ie you don’t have to pay).

Especially given that, quite why children from secular, Muslim, Hindu, Jewish, Sikh etc homes should have to put up with somebody else’s religious story escapes me. The real problem, of course, is that, since schools for this age-range will only have one ‘production’, if it’s a Christian-based production then most non-Christian children will have to be excluded from the drama experience - there’s no way, for example, that I could allow my children to take part in Christian drama.

 

[KathleenElsie]

It should be remembered that Church schools are ubiquitous and part of the state sector in the UK (ie you don’t have to pay).

Especially given that, quite why children from secular, Muslim, Hindu, Jewish, Sikh etc homes should have to put up with somebody else’s religious story escapes me. The real problem, of course, is that, since schools for this age-range will only have one ‘production’, if it’s a Christian-based production then most non-Christian children will have to be excluded from the drama experience - there’s no way, for example, that I could allow my children to take part in Christian drama.

Do you send you child to the Catholic or secular school? If Catholic then I would expect that the yearly play would be Catholic. Just as if a child was going to a Jewish school the play would be Jewish. Just add the name of a religion into the school and that is what you should expect that school festivities to include. It was the decision of the parent to send their child to the school so don’t make those of that belief conform to your decision.

 

[Wolseley]

It should be remembered that Church schools are ubiquitous and part of the state sector in the UK (ie you don’t have to pay).

You should petition Parliament to change that. Enact educational segregation.

Whoops—that wouldn’t be very “tolerant” and “diverse” and all that other balderdash, would it?

Especially given that, quite why children from secular, Muslim, Hindu, Jewish, Sikh etc homes should have to put up with somebody else’s religious story escapes me. The real problem, of course, is that, since schools for this age-range will only have one ‘production’, if it’s a Christian-based production then most non-Christian children will have to be excluded from the drama experience - there’s no way, for example, that I could allow my children to take part in Christian drama.

There is no way I would allow my child to take part in a goodly portion of the garbage that’s pushed in American public schools—the political correctness, the anti-Christian, anti-Western agendas, the pro-death, pro-abortion, pro-sexual promiscuity, pro-homosexual perversion, and all the rest of the liberal, deviant filth.

Why he should have to put up with the secularist agenda is beyond me. That’s why we homeschool.

 

[Servulus]

It should be remembered that Church schools are ubiquitous and part of the state sector in the UK (ie you don’t have to pay).

Especially given that, quite why children from secular, Muslim, Hindu, Jewish, Sikh etc homes should have to put up with somebody else’s religious story escapes me. The real problem, of course, is that, since schools for this age-range will only have one ‘production’, if it’s a Christian-based production then most non-Christian children will have to be excluded from the drama experience - there’s no way, for example, that I could allow my children to take part in Christian drama.

You seem to be arguing that Muslim, Hindu, Jewish, Sikh, etc. families living in England (a nation whose history, tradition, and predominant culture are Christian) should not have to “put up with somebody else’s religious story”.

Would you argue as strongly that Christian families living in countries whose history, tradition, and predominant culture are Muslim, Hindu, Jewish, Sikh, etc. should not have to “put up with somebody else’s religious story”?

What do you think is the likelihood of the latter view being implemented?

 

[Kaninchen]

You seem to be arguing that Muslim, Hindu, Jewish, Sikh, etc. families living in England (a nation whose history, tradition, and predominant culture are Christian) should not have to “put up with somebody else’s religious story”.

Whether it was a Christian country is beside the point - non-Christians are taxpayers, there are taxpayer-subsidized Christian schools, there are secular schools. If non-Christians send their children to secular schools, why should they subsidize Christian proselytizing in those schools?

Would you argue as strongly that Christian families living in countries whose history, tradition, and predominant culture are Muslim, Hindu, Jewish, Sikh, etc. should not have to “put up with somebody else’s religious story”?

Yes, I don’t think, for example, that Christian children should have to put up with the Jewish religious story at all.

What do you think is the likelihood of the latter view being implemented?

I’m not aware that Israel demands that Muslim or Christian children are required to put up with the Jewish religious story.

I would need to see evidence that non-Christian countries require children of other faiths be exposed to their stories.

Please explain to me why my Jewish children should have had (when they were very young) to put up with the Christian nativity story - a story that is directly contrary to Jewish teaching.

 

[Servulus]

If a non-Christian chooses to live in a Christian nation, should he reasonably expect that the nation, its culture, and its social traditions be modified for his benefit?

 

[Kaninchen]

If a non-Christian chooses to live in a Christian nation, should he reasonably expect that the nation, its culture, and its social traditions be modified for his benefit?

If a Christian chooses to live in a secular society, should he reasonably expect that the society, its culture and its social traditions be modified for his benefit?

How far are you prepared to go with this argument - if Catholic children live in Protestant societies, should there be Protestant proselytizing in schools?

Meanwhile, this thread is about plays in secular state schools (there being plenty of state church schools) for young children. Why is it acceptable for young children to be proselytized by members of other religions in schools?

 

[Wolseley]

You seem to be arguing that Muslim, Hindu, Jewish, Sikh, etc. families living in England (a nation whose history, tradition, and predominant culture are Christian) should not have to “put up with somebody else’s religious story”.

Would you argue as strongly that Christian families living in countries whose history, tradition, and predominant culture are Muslim, Hindu, Jewish, Sikh, etc. should not have to “put up with somebody else’s religious story”?

What do you think is the likelihood of the latter view being implemented?

Exactly. Try going to Saudi Arabia and demanding that their religious schools don’t have any references to Islam during Islamic holidays because it’s offensive to non-Muslim students.

Make sure you take along a plastic bag to put your head in.

 

[Kaninchen]

Do you send you child to the Catholic or secular school? If Catholic then I would expect that the yearly play would be Catholic. Just as if a child was going to a Jewish school the play would be Jewish. Just add the name of a religion into the school and that is what you should expect that school festivities to include. It was the decision of the parent to send their child to the school so don’t make those of that belief conform to your decision.

I doubt anybody else cares whether or not the Christian (Catholic or Protestant) schools have nativity plays or not - I certainly don’t.

 

[Kaninchen]

Exactly. Try going to Saudi Arabia and demanding that their religious schools don’t have any references to Islam during Islamic holidays because it’s offensive to non-Muslim students.

Make sure you take along a plastic bag to put your head in.

Is what happens or not in Saudi the test of all policy, everywhere, for all time?

Jewish children in secular schools in the UK (or anywhere else in Europe) have to be proselytized by Christians because, hey, if they were in Saudi they’d be beheaded for being Jewish - riigghhht, makes perfect sense.

 

[wifeandmomoftwo]

I doubt anybody else cares whether or not the Christian (Catholic or Protestant) schools have nativity plays or not - I certainly don’t.

I see from your profile your jewish…is that the reason for the snippy comment?

I am sure that a majority of people could care less what the Yeshivas do for the Fesitval of Lights I know that I dont!

 

[Kaninchen]

I see from your profile your jewish…is that the reason for the snippy comment?

What snippy comment? That I don’t care whether Christian schools have nativity plays? Hey, sorry if it sounds ‘snippy’ but I genuinely don’t care, I lose no sleep over the subject.

 

[wifeandmomoftwo]

Is what happens or not in Saudi the test of all policy, everywhere, for all time?

Jewish children in secular schools in the UK (or anywhere else in Europe) have to be proselytized by Christians because, hey, if they were in Saudi they’d be beheaded for being Jewish - riigghhht, makes perfect sense.

I am sorry but dont jews have access to Yeshivas in the UK where their kids can be educated??

 

[wifeandmomoftwo]

Gilliam…

This is nothing new…it is happening in the US to. Just take a look at the public schools and you will see that the Christmas Pageant has now become the Winter Festival or some other garbage!

 

[Kaninchen]

I am sorry but dont jews have access to Yeshivas in the UK where their kids can be educated??

The topic isn’t about what goes on in the many state-provided Catholic, Church of England, (or the very few Jewish and Islamic) Junior/Infant schools, it’s about what goes on in the state non-religiously affiliated schools, the secular schools.

You mistake the nature of Yeshiva, by the way.

 

[Kaninchen]

Gilliam…

This is nothing new…it is happening in the US to. Just take a look at the public schools and you will see that the Christmas Pageant has now become the Winter Festival or some other garbage!

The UK isn’t the US - for a start there are many state-funded Catholic and Church of England schools. It’s also a much more secular society.

 

[wifeandmomoftwo]

The topic isn’t about what goes on in the many state-provided Catholic, Church of England, (or the very few Jewish and Islamic) Junior/Infant schools, it’s about what goes on in the state non-religiously affiliated schools, the secular schools.

And you feel jewish kids are being proselytized to in the UK secular schools?

You mistake the nature of Yeshiva, by the way.

Really here in the US especially the town I live in the Yeshivas are where the Orthodox Jews send their kids for schooling (HS age) and they send their kids to Jewish Day Schools for K-8.