Science and Religion - Compatabile?

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SwordofLight:
Another AMAZING tidbit I learned is very interesting. It seems as though everything is made of LIGHT. Think about it, no matter what you burn, all that comes out is light, nothing else. The smaller we get in the atoms, the more simple it gets, and the more we find out matter is made of LIGHT.
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While I understand that matter is neither created nor destroyed and that light has both the characteristics of particles and waves, I’m not sure what you mean by everything is made of light. Electromagnetic radiation?
 
A good book on this subject which I’ve recently read is: “Creation - Remarkable Evidence of God’s Design” by Grant R. Jeffrey
 
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Charles:
While I understand that matter is neither created nor destroyed and that light has both the characteristics of particles and waves, I’m not sure what you mean by everything is made of light. Electromagnetic radiation?
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It was discussed by our science proffessor, it’s his little thoery, but it makes a lot of sense.

We have found that protons and neutrons have little building blocks, called quarks (or something like that). It isn’t impossible for these quarts to be made of something even smaller. And light is one of the first things created by God.

Just a theory.
 
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SwordofLight:
It was discussed by our science proffessor, it’s his little thoery, but it makes a lot of sense.
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There are two categories of particles, bosons (which have integral spin) and fermions (which have half-integral spin). Light is made up of photons, which are bosons. Accepted physics theory states that when a particle is made up of smaller bosons, then it too is a boson. Thus, it is impossible for all particles to be made up of photons, without totally rewriting modern physics.
 
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TDC:
I don’t want to turn this into a physics lesson, but the laws between the two are quite intriguing and elegant, to me at least.
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One incredibly neat thing is the derivation of Maxwell’s equations from only Coulomb’s Law combined with relativistic invariance. As you get to more advanced physics, the equations become so constrained by general principles that you begin to wonder if God had any choice in creating the laws of physics.
 
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SwordofLight:
Think about it, no matter what you burn, all that comes out is light, nothing else.
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Care to explain this? Last time I burned a piece of wood, I got water, carbon dioxide, and whatever else was produced as a result of incomplete combustion 🙂
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Catholic2003:
One incredibly neat thing is the derivation of Maxwell’s equations from only Coulomb’s Law combined with relativistic invariance. As you get to more advanced physics, the equations become so constrained by general principles that you begin to wonder if God had any choice in creating the laws of physics.
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Well, we may not be able to see the choice God had because we are constrained by the laws that he did make. I have no doubt that God could have formed any number of other systems that would seem completely bizarre to us if we saw them. I think the equations become constrained because God made the world in a specific way, and the equations reflect that.
 
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Carl:
The problem with science, since the time of Darwin especially, is that many scientists have come to advocate science as the exclusive method of finding truth. For example, Thomas Edison said he found no scientific evidence for the existence of God. This is an astounding statement coming from so brilliant a genius, yet it is typical of the way many scientists think today. Do they expect to find God on a slide at the end of a microscope or a cloud at the end of a telescope? Do they expect to find God in a test tube?

It is this arrogant and exclusive methodology that fuels the disproportionate number of atheists in the scientific community as opposed to the general population.
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**😦 **
 
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Carl:
The problem with science, since the time of Darwin especially, is that many scientists have come to advocate science as the exclusive method of finding truth. For example, Thomas Edison said he found no scientific evidence for the existence of God. This is an astounding statement coming from so brilliant a genius, yet it is typical of the way many scientists think today. Do they expect to find God on a slide at the end of a microscope or a cloud at the end of a telescope? Do they expect to find God in a test tube?

It is this arrogant and exclusive methodology that fuels the disproportionate number of atheists in the scientific community as opposed to the general population.
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Did Edison find scientific evidence that God exists? What was it? What is the scientific evidence that God exists?
 
I had been thinking of starting a new thread on a similar topic, but here it is… 😃

My pondering started from JPII theology of the body (translated from Popese by Christopher West, thank you very much) and a friend of mine who had been considering opening a Catholic University that was also technically oriented. So, I began to wonder about applying this teaching. So, to marry the two ideas together: Theology of the body teaches us that God reveals himself through our own bodies and our sexuality. On a corrallary (sp?) God has been setting us up for Jesus throughout the whole OT. So, since God really wants us to “GET” what he is about, wouldn’t it make sense that physics could be pointing us to greater knowledge of God/his spiritual truth. This is not very rigorous, but let’s look at a couple of physical laws:

Law of Gravity: Eistein’s theory was that smaller masses tend to be drawn to larger masses (simplistic, but I believe it gets the point across). So, to take the spiritual side of this, our smaller spiritual beings are drawn to a much larger spiritual being, GOD! Where we get into trouble, I theorize is when we find local minimum/maximums, such as our own gods (money, goods, Greek gods, etc) which we fool ourselves into believing are more than they really are, or worse satan, who is a spiritual force.

For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction: This to me points to God’s justice. If we do something, we are always accountable for it. God’s grace might act like friction for us… but justice/heat is always there, the heat might just be a little pergatory. Actually, this law for me, (assuming there is any truth to my pondering) would actually point to the existance of pergatory.

I haven’t taken this to any other physical laws, just because of time, but I thought it was interesting, geek that I am. Oh, and since there is very rarely any new ideas out there, please point me to the person that did think of this before and probably thought it out more clearly. I guess to me, this would also point out that physics isn’t some random creation from God, it would be based on spiritual truth. Not that God couldn’t create something random, but that he is always trying to reveal himself to us.

Have fun throwing stones if I’m waaay out! 😉

John
 
Ken << What is the scientific evidence that God exists? >>

Hey, are you the Ken from Catholic-Convert board that I notice likes this topic too? 😛

From the above post, Edison said he could find no scientific evidence for God. The scientific evidence these days is the supposed “design” found in the “bacterium flagellum” according to Behe and Dembski. A response to that here by biologist Ken Miller (also Catholic)

Ken Miller’s Evolution page at Brown Univ

Also there is the cosmological “anthropic principle” banded about by William Lane Craig in his debates to show there is “design” in the universe

Craig on the Anthropic Principle in reply to Barrow/Tipler

A little over my head…

Phil P
 
Psalm 19:2 is the verse you were looking for.

God is the ultimate scientist since a scientist is one who “knows” (science means knowledge literally.) I chuckle when people amuse themselves by thinking they are smarter than God. I am reminded of the formula of evolution:

Nothing + no one x chance= everything.

This illustrates the absurdity of the extreme view of scientists who exclude God from creation.

My favorite scientific illustration of God–and the Trinity–is the molecule necessary for all advanced life as we know it: water, which is H2O–two atoms of hydrogen connected by one atom of oxygen. (H being Father and Son united in one by the O.) This seems like a perfect illustration of Psalm 19:2 because all creation declares the glory of God, and God is in all things. There are so many other 3s in creation if we take the time to notice them. God has put his image in all things I truly believe; it is our job to notice these emblems of God and share them with those who have yet to do so.
 
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yochumjy:
I had been thinking of starting a new thread on a similar topic, but here it is… 😃

My pondering started from JPII theology of the body (translated from Popese by Christopher West, thank you very much) and a friend of mine who had been considering opening a Catholic University that was also technically oriented. So, I began to wonder about applying this teaching. So, to marry the two ideas together: Theology of the body teaches us that God reveals himself through our own bodies and our sexuality. On a corrallary (sp?) God has been setting us up for Jesus throughout the whole OT. So, since God really wants us to “GET” what he is about, wouldn’t it make sense that physics could be pointing us to greater knowledge of God/his spiritual truth. This is not very rigorous, but let’s look at a couple of physical laws:

Law of Gravity: Eistein’s theory was that smaller masses tend to be drawn to larger masses (simplistic, but I believe it gets the point across). So, to take the spiritual side of this, our smaller spiritual beings are drawn to a much larger spiritual being, GOD! Where we get into trouble, I theorize is when we find local minimum/maximums, such as our own gods (money, goods, Greek gods, etc) which we fool ourselves into believing are more than they really are, or worse satan, who is a spiritual force.

For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction: This to me points to God’s justice. If we do something, we are always accountable for it. God’s grace might act like friction for us… but justice/heat is always there, the heat might just be a little pergatory. Actually, this law for me, (assuming there is any truth to my pondering) would actually point to the existance of pergatory.

I haven’t taken this to any other physical laws, just because of time, but I thought it was interesting, geek that I am. Oh, and since there is very rarely any new ideas out there, please point me to the person that did think of this before and probably thought it out more clearly. I guess to me, this would also point out that physics isn’t some random creation from God, it would be based on spiritual truth. Not that God couldn’t create something random, but that he is always trying to reveal himself to us.

Have fun throwing stones if I’m waaay out! 😉

John
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At a minimum, science provides us with good analogies.
 
Another good book:

Christianity for Modern Pagans: Pascal’s Pensées Edited, Outlined & Explained by Peter Kreeft. (Of course the selected Pensées were by Blaise Pascal himself.)
 
My opinion on science vs. religion: we should not teach science without teaching philosophy of science.
 
undefinedHi all! I think the thing which tipped me over and into an RCIA program was when I saw an example of a symbiotic relationship between a tiny wasp and a tiny fig tree…niether one could exist with out the total reliance on the life cycle of the other! (I saw this in "The Secret Life of Plants) I guess this may seem a silly thing, but it took serious scientific study to detect this relationship; and I am sure it represents one of thousands of blatant proofs of the existance of a devine and beneficient creator! I have now become convinced that science is an attempt by us miserable sinners to see a small part of the whole that comprises God!
 
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Charles:
Can someone help me find in the Bible where it says something to the effect that even those who have not heard the word of God can be made aware of His presence simply by observing the heavens and the Earth which proclaim His existence? I know this isn’t the exact quote but I’ve read something similar to this in the Bible I think and would like to find it again. It certainly speaks to the topic of this thread as it acknowledges our powers of observation (science) also lead us to a belief in God (religion).
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Romans 1:19-21 says:
For what can be known about God is evident to them, because God made it evident to them. Ever since the creation of the world, his invisible attributes of eternal power and divinity have been able to be understood and perceived in what he has made. As a result, they have no excuse; for although they knew God they did not accord him glory as God or give him thanks. Instead, they became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless minds were darkened.
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True science and true religion cannot contradict each other. Science is based on observation, or what is perceptible to the senses. By definition, it is not able to observe those things which are immaterial, such as God, Grace, Spirit, Mind, or Will. Or even abstracts such as justice, temperance, and fortitude. Even more important, scientists cannot (formally) make use of internal experiences, since they are known only subjectively, to the person experiencing them. You become aware of yourself as a person, not through observation, but through introspection.

Are you aware of yourself as a person who has a mind and a will? Can you ‘observe’ your mind working to form abstract ideas out of sense objects? Can you catch yourself in the act of deciding between several alternatives? A scientist, as such, cannot admit that he thinks with his mind, not his brain. But as a philosopher, he can. The more I try to study the details of String Theory or M-Theory, the more it becomes apparent that getting all these concepts into one’s mind is more than a matter of brain activity. As others on this thread have pointed out, the physical laws of the universe tend to show a fascinating interdependence. Some would say they even look as though the universe was created for human life. But that’s not something that science is allowed to say.
 
A book recommendation:

“The Evidential Power of Beauty”
subtitle" Science & Theology Meet.

By Thomas Dubay S.M

Also books by Stanley Jaki. available right here on catholic.com
library under the heading, Science.
 
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Sanosuke:
… I hear that DNA stores information almost like a computer disk does. Such things make me wonder how anyone could not believe in a God. Even in my skepical years, I tended to avoid this subject. I just couldn’t bring myself to blame everything on chance.
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While in Microbiology class one day I made the grave mistake (at a Baptist College no doubt) of stating that I believed that Mother Nature may allow viruses and bacteria to help keep us from over populating the planet. My teacher thought it was an excellent viewpoint, while numerous gasps and hecklers were heard behind me.

But the part about storing information…I totally believe that! I described my grandmother’s home when she was a child to her from a dream that I had had. I also had never seen a photo or been their either or heard many stories. I described to her trees and buildings that were never described to me as a child or young adult. It’s just weird but it could be my gift of sight from God or we do store some genetic material in our DNA and possibly memories which is being studied.
 
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