Scientist passed over for job because of his faith

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This isn’t unusual sadly. A good many Pagan have lost their jobs when it came to light they believed in "primitive superstitions.
 
  1. Pretty much all serious scientists say creation science is bunk.
  2. Yes, you can prove it is bunk by using science. That is why scientists do not believe it.
Here is a disconnect between faith and empirical evidence. I certainly hope you don’t believe in a God who requires you to abandon conclusions reached through observation and reason.

Evolution produces measurable predictions and those predictions, when measured, have been found to be accurate. Medicine, just to give some quick examples, uses evolutionary theory to model antibiotic resistance and to choose suitable animals for drug testing before human trials begin.
Nope. I’ve known a number of well educated scientists who do not believe there is scientific evidence in favor of evolution. Not every creationist is a young earth creationist. In fact, I don’t think I’ve ever met one. Every one that I know says that the Earth is millions of years old, but bacteria did not mutate into something which down the line mutated into a monkey which mutated into a human. That is what is taught in public school, and that is what most creationists have a problem with. Most creationists will tell you that yes, humans have changed (evolved) over time, but we did not evolve from another species. I will never believe in evolution because I have way too many scientific problems with it that no one can explain to me. Having similar DNA and features has nothing to do with evolution to creationists. It has to do with the fact that one God created everything, so of course things have much in common.
 
Nope. I’ve known a number of well educated scientists who do not believe there is scientific evidence in favor of evolution.
This strains my credulity. You say you know real scientists who believe there is no evidence for evolution. I would be more inclined to believe you if you said “they think there are some phenomena evolution has not yet adequately explained.” To achieve a scientific education and not once be exposed to evidence for evolution is astounding to me. Are you talking about people with Ph.D.s who are involved with research or are you talking about someone with a B.A. in sociology?
 
My last post also includes a quote from the document. I’ll post it again : A legitimate plurality of positions has yielded to an undifferentiated pluralism, based upon the assumption that all positions are equally valid, which is one of today’s most widespread symptoms of the lack of confidence in truth.
What’s wrong with that statement?
 
Considering everyone agrees that he was the most qualified and there was nothing about him being unable to fit into the “group”, it is more than likely he was passed over for giving a talk regarding faith and science. Apparently, that’s forbidden if an academic wants to advance in his career these days.

Scientists, of all people, ought to go by the facts/evidence of the individual case not their impression of extremist positions in judging whether or not someone would be make a good teacher. And I never said that literal creationism should have any kind of standing in the classroom, and neither did he. If scientists go by such impressions it is unfair characterization by loose association. Hardly a good reason to pass over the most qualified person for the job.
As I said, it would be hard to say what all influenced their decision the most in the end. The problem that they perceived with his religious belief, probably erroneously, is very much about him fitting into the group.

Scientists are not experts in religion any more than most people. It is too bad they didn’t see fit to ask him more about it. But the concern seems to have been as much with the public perception of his beliefs as with what he actually believed. Which is wrong - they should have more moral fiber than that. But my point was that this kind of attitude or perception is very much enabled by people who go around insisting that Christians must reject all serious science. Not that they personally think that this is the best interpretation, but that they MUST. Those people either don’t realize, or don’t care, that they are making the whole problem worse. Because of this kind of frenzied activity against science and especially evolution, many people become convinced that Christianity is a position of the foolish, the uneducated, and A-1 nutters.

I sometimes get the impression that they like that result - they see this as a test of who “really” has faith, and they want to cause this huge social rift between believers and non-believers. And I think that is wrong.
 
As I said, it would be hard to say what all influenced their decision the most in the end. The problem that they perceived with his religious belief, probably erroneously, is very much about him fitting into the group.

Scientists are not experts in religion any more than most people. It is too bad they didn’t see fit to ask him more about it. But the concern seems to have been as much with the public perception of his beliefs as with what he actually believed. Which is wrong - they should have more moral fiber than that. But my point was that this kind of attitude or perception is very much enabled by people who go around insisting that Christians must reject all serious science. Not that they personally think that this is the best interpretation, but that they MUST. Those people either don’t realize, or don’t care, that they are making the whole problem worse. Because of this kind of frenzied activity against science and especially evolution, many people become convinced that Christianity is a position of the foolish, the uneducated, and A-1 nutters.

I sometimes get the impression that they like that result - they see this as a test of who “really” has faith, and they want to cause this huge social rift between believers and non-believers. And I think that is wrong.
But none of this means this man should have been passed over for a plum position. It’s an injustice. If they didn’t ask the man what his own opinions were but passed him over on mere general impressions or bias, then that was wrong, wrong, wrong. What else really needs to be said about bigotry in such cases? And why can’t the man have differing opinions from the accepted? What is there to fear when in open discussion of evolution instead of a lockstep approach that denies any and all attempts to question some of it’s basic assumptions? If the evidence all points one way then why the fear of questioning it? Students getting one opinion crammed down their throats is hardly fair inquiry when science demands fair inquiry to be valid. This is nothing more than another attempt to make those who disagree with the prevailing theories sit down and shut up. This is hardly an isolated case, either. It’s much more widespread than most people know since the mainstream media is deaf and blind to it. Considering they think people of faith morons, as well, it’s not at all surprising.
 
But none of this means this man should have been passed over for a plum position. It’s an injustice. If they didn’t ask the man what his own opinions were but passed him over on mere general impressions or bias, then that was wrong, wrong, wrong. What else really needs to be said about bigotry in such cases? And why can’t the man have differing opinions from the accepted? What is there to fear when in open discussion of evolution instead of a lockstep approach that denies any and all attempts to question some of it’s basic assumptions? If the evidence all points one way then why the fear of questioning it? Students getting one opinion crammed down their throats is hardly fair inquiry when science demands fair inquiry to be valid. This is nothing more than another attempt to make those who disagree with the prevailing theories sit down and shut up. This is hardly an isolated case, either. It’s much more widespread than most people know since the mainstream media is deaf and blind to it. Considering they think people of faith morons, as well, it’s not at all surprising.
I never suggested it was right that they passed him over. I said it would be hard to pin down how much this was the reason, and that anti-evolution activists make this problem worse, not better, and I think they should stop presenting themselves as the oly true Christians.
 
I never suggested it was right that they passed him over. I said it would be hard to pin down how much this was the reason, and that anti-evolution activists make this problem worse, not better, and I think they should stop presenting themselves as the oly true Christians.
Sorry, I didn’t intend to say you think it’s right that he was passed over for the job. Poor wording on my part. 😊

And it bothers me too when the creationists/young earth folks make ridiculous claims, touting their opinions as if speaking for all Christendom. I didn’t like it when I was a Pentecostal Christian and dislike it even more now. :yup:
 
Which faith?

Do you have confidence in the scientific method?
Any faith.

I think that the scientific method is essential to science and that it’s application has led to improvements in technology and our understanding of the universe.
 
Any faith.
:coffeeread:
I think that the scientific method is essential to science and that it’s application has led to improvements in technology and our understanding of the universe.
That’s a faith based statement. You’re saying the scientific method is contrary to reason. Have you thought this through?
 
:coffeeread:

That’s a faith based statement. You’re saying the scientific method is contrary to reason. Have you thought this through?
It’s not a faith based statement, and the scientific method is not contrary to reason. I’ve thought it through.
 
No, I’m saying that explaining the scientific method using the scientific method is itself unscientific.
Why does the scientific method work?

Why is the universe ordered?

Why is the universe intelligible?

You can’t prove these essential presuppositions for the scientific method. You take them on faith. You accept on faith alone the classical metaphysics that are the lynchpin of the scientific method.

Your acceptance of the scientific method is a statement of faith, you just refuse to admit that it is.
 
Why does the scientific method work?

Why is the universe ordered?

Why is the universe intelligible?

You can’t prove these essential presuppositions for the scientific method. You take them on faith. You accept on faith alone the classical metaphysics that are the lynchpin of the scientific method.

Your acceptance of the scientific method is a statement of faith, you just refuse to admit that it is.
Classical metaphysics are not the lynchpin of the scientific method. The idea of the universe being ordered and intelligible has never been an essential presupposition of the scientific method. Quantum Physics is a perfect example of a branch of science that is neither ordered nor intelligible.

You ask “Why does it work?” You admit then, that is does work?
 
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