Scrapping Welfare

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Sarcelle said:
However when it becomes a way of life with three or four generations all dependent on welfare, you can see that welfare can become detrimental.
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This is my point with Medicare and social security. People forget that these are welfare programs and think they are some sort of investment that they are entitled to receive a return on. When you ask people why our children and grand children should subsidize these programs to the tune of $300 billion per year they remain silent. It just shows you how welfare breeds an entitlement mentality, even among those who purport to believe in small government.
 
Sarcelle said:
The million dollar question would be, are private contributions enough?

Will people be generous enough?
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My guess is probably not. But those who argue that we should rely on private contributions for welfare backtrack very quickly when I suggest we start with social security and medicare. The attitude is welfare for me but not for thee.
 
I pay through the nose in Social Security taxes to support the current retirees. I doubt I will see a single penny of this when I retire.

I cringe when I think of all the SS tax I pay sent instead into a 401K instead and how much I would be able to have.
 
Theo520 said:
plenty of other options, even a stay at home parent.
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Then you get complaints because people are staying at home to take care of their children instead of working, and need welfare because one income isn’t sufficient to meet the needs of the family.
 
Not to mention there are many factors that can render people poor. I used to run a company with my dad making really good money. Falling out with my parents aside my wife was beaten to an inch of her life while I was on the road. Now she has nerve damage and her leg often refuses to respond but other-times does.

I cant afford a psw to watch her, I have to stay at home myself. I cant get a full time job that pays less then a certain amount of my student debt will crush away what little money I made.

I either sit with her on disability doing odd jobs under the table to help make ends meet or get a really well paying job that fixes our odd problem.

Its not that easy for everyone (directed at everyone not the person replaied too, Your cool 🙂 )
 
The thing is, we have a lot of different reasons people could be on welfare. Not all of them will have the same solution. (I’m for now going to address family units rather than individuals.)

Some people won’t be able to work, or they’ll only be able to work a very limited amount, due to disability. This will also include those who are serving as full-time caretakers (which can last different amounts of time depending on the individual being cared for). These people are going to need some form of outside support no matter what.

Some people could work, but they may need extra help. I was in that category - I could get back to work, but I needed some support in order to reach that point. I needed medical care and I needed a place to stay and food to eat while I got it, but once I got medical care I could get back to work.

There are people who could work, but for some reason aren’t trying to work.

There are people who are looking for work and need assistance while they find a job.

There are some people who are working, but who don’t make enough to meet their own ordinary needs for housing and food and clothing.

There are people who are working, but who have extraordinary needs. An example here would be many families of special needs children, who have increased costs (I know of a family here with a severely developmentally delayed son, who costs a lot of money because of the expense of having someone capable of watching him).
 
blackforest said:
I hate to state the obvious here, but poor people need income.
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It’s not income if you are spending more on daycare than your take home pay, to state the obvious.
Then one parent being stay at home with some part time work, that how it usually goes.
 
please try again, make a cogent point.
You’ll have to use full sentences and support your ideas.
That is how we teach middle schoolers how to write anyway.

ps, and stay away from proof texting.
 
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Okay the point which was apparently too subtle for you was the sweeping generalization.

Not everyone has the same skills, abilities or privilege. Usually, is a useless term because people are too weird and wonderful to be type castes.
 
Rhetorical questions: Do we presume to be smarter than those who are climbing the ladder beneath us? Go back 100, 200 years. Were there piles of dead corpses in the streets? After all, there were no welfare programs back then. How to explain…

Our government “charity” has produced a generation of dependents. Has such a created class accomplished any of the great advancements in history?
 
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No, there were piles of people in the workhouse - and often piles of corpses in pauper’s fields.
 
And a “just wage” of $200/hour would have saved them from disease and the other 19th century causes of mortality?

We are NOT NOT NOT talking about scrapping welfare with nothing to replace it. It is failed. To continue it - as is - is an insult to humanity, as it creates a permanent sub-class.

Is that progressive charity?

Rather, read Huxley’s Brave New world if you have not. Sounds eerily similar.
 
Clean living conditions, adequate nutrition, relief from overcrowding, and time to rest from work would have saved many.

I understand the concern with a permanent sub-class. My concern is that many plans to replace it seem to assume that if you just yank welfare they’ll go out and find well-paying jobs. The point many of us are making is that doesn’t really address those who are working or seeking work, but still don’t make enough to meet their own needs.

Views that the poor are a natural class of those who are lazy and need to be made to work don’t lead anywhere good either.
 
Cyril said:
Okay the point which was apparently too subtle for you was the sweeping generalization.

Not everyone has the same skills, abilities or privilege. Usually, is a useless term because people are too weird and wonderful to be type castes.
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You are still not making any valid points, in may many posts here I’ve never suggested otherwise (that abilities vary).

I’ve also supported welfare with work, so we can accommodate those with lower skill levels receiving aid and still obtaining productive work.
 
It does now. I might ask what is charitable about taxpayers counting on a government program to aid the poor? I can’t see it. In principle, our Lord said, “The poor you will always have with you, and you may do good to them whenever you please.” No mention of Caesar, or of Herod.
 
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