Screaming Babies at Mass

[Ohana]

So apparently according to you my son with Down syndrome will never be able to attend Mass then. My son is 5 yrs old and still cannot say my name, let alone grasp what it means to be quiet and still when in the presence of the Eucharist. This thread has gotten really disturbing and makes me thankful for the family friendly parish I attend. Peace

Thanks for this Mamanurse - you make my point that all are and should be welcome at Mass. Adults cam make changes, like changing time to attend, where often parent of young or disabled children cannot. I am glad you are in a family friendly parish.

 

[Ohana]

Why on Earth would Defender need to go anywhere else when s/he isn’t the one causing or allowing the disruption?

No but she clearly has a problem tolerating others in the Mass she is attending. If it was me, I would do something about that… At our parish, when children start crying (we do not have a cry room) and are not easily settled parents take them out to the narthex until they are quieted… I appreciate that, but there are times when it does not happen so quickly. Hey, I had young ones too once. We tried, but sometimes they can get cranked up before you get to the door!

 

[ardis3958]

So do you use the same excuses to look at the couple sitting in front of you who has been married 3 years but don’t have any children and assume it is because they are using contraception?

Imagine if someone is rude to you and you say back to them, Oh you must be autistic or have brain damage from your stint in Afghanistan see, because I’m so charitable that I make up excuses for people I don’t even know. That would make no sense at all. If I’m at a student recital and my cell phone rings and I answer it and keep talking on it right then and there like a total clod, am I supposed to bank on everybody else giving me warm smiles thinking they’re being charitable by pretending there’s a secret reason they don’t know about that makes it OK? Is that what being charitable is all about? That sounds more like denial to me.

Recently I was parking my car in a parking lot and some guy walked directly into my way and I almost hit him. He was walking diagonally across the driving lane, facing away from me and had his cell phone against the ear that was facing me. Am I supposed to pretend what-if the phone call was really important like his son was electrocuted and he was telling his wife how to do CPR on him? Or do I call them as I see them, just another self-absorbed cell phone user not exercising reasonable caution?

My point is that making up your own excuses for people who have no excuses gets you nowhere. Really if we fill out heads with what-ifs then we are just living in an imaginary world and we eventually train ourselves to avoid holding people responsible for what they do. And that’s not charity that’s indulgence, the bad kind.

 

[freddo]

An espresso machine would be nice.

:coffeeread: That would be nice! Then I could ignore my children whilst drinking my morning coffee.

There are rules of behavior for the library**, too. Like being in church, if a child is being disruptive in the library, he or she needs to be taken out without getting a book. Try again tomorrow. I was just at the library early this afternoon, and all was quiet. Egads, why is this basic expectation of manners so offensive to parents these days – has society’s expectations on proper behavior really sunk so low that so many parents feel their children are entitled to behave however they wish at any given time and it’s everybody else’s problem if they don’t wish to be disturbed?

Uhhhhh I didn’t say I felt entitled to my children having bad behaviour. Sometimes they just need to be reminded of the library’s rules. Sometimes they need to be taken out and not get their book. My point was that just because sometimes they forget the library rules does not preclude them from borrowing books for the next ten years. How will they learn if I never take them?

I’m not saying children should’nt be brought to mass, but only after they are taught what mass all about.

I actually just asked a priest about this last night. He said that children are just as much a part of the community as everybody else, and that people are just as likely to be distracted by an adult doing something as a child. He also said that it’s good to take them from the start, otherwise one day you’ll take them and they aren’t going to be used to it and won’t want to go. They might not want to go now anyway, he said, but it’s a good place for them to be anyway.

 

[Mamanurse]

Poor little guy. Why are you just assuming he’ll never be able to refrain from screaming during Mass? Did his doctor tell you that?

I never said that he screams during Mass. I simply said that according to you if he doesn’t understand the Mass then he shouldn’t be there. My son is actually pretty well behaved during Mass, but will often laugh inappropriately, chatter his teeth and makes other verbal noises.

One question…do you have any children?

 

[Ohana]

I am getting a bit distressed by this thread. There seem to be several things going on:

Group A-The thread was initiated by someone very upset by crying babies in church and the failure of parents to remove them as a distraction. This poster was supported by others having the same issue, and adding in toddlers and other children who misbehave in one way or another. The focus seems to be get them out of church and get them under control. In addition, all churches should have a cry room to avoid distressing the rest of the congregation.

Group B: Another group of posters seem angry with group A for having difficulty with the noise of young cheldren at Mass and blame the parent for not correcting their children and characterize the parents as entitled, prideful, or simply uncaring.

Group C: This group of posters are offering some insights as to the various conditions which might make kids “misbehave” and parents delay in making them stop. This group is asking for some understanding and tolerance at the least, and less judgementalism at best. Some of these people seem angry at groups A and B.

Group D: joins with group C in offering explanation and pleas for less judgementalism, but trying also to empathize with groups A and B.

The level of vitriol is rising in this discussion. Lets all try to have a little charity. I am close to reporting this thread to the mods because it is getting to be a bit vicious. This is my last post. on this thread. LIST]

 

[Faith1960]

Recently I was parking my car in a parking lot and some guy walked directly into my way and I almost hit him. He was walking diagonally across the driving lane, facing away from me and had his cell phone against the ear that was facing me. Am I supposed to pretend what-if the phone call was really important like his son was electrocuted and he was telling his wife how to do CPR on him? Or do I call them as I see them, just another self-absorbed cell phone user not exercising reasonable caution?

My point is that making up your own excuses for people who have no excuses gets you nowhere. Really if we fill out heads with what-ifs then we are just living in an imaginary world and we eventually train ourselves to avoid holding people responsible for what they do. And that’s not charity that’s indulgence, the bad kind.

 

[Faith1960]

Uhhhhh I didn’t say I felt entitled to my children having bad behaviour. Sometimes they just need to be reminded of the library’s rules. Sometimes they need to be taken out and not get their book. My point was that just because sometimes they forget the library rules does not preclude them from borrowing books for the next ten years. How will they learn if I never take them?

Who ever said that they shouldn’t get books for the “next ten years” or that you should never take them to the library (or church)?

 

[Faith1960]

I never said that he screams during Mass. I simply said that according to you if he doesn’t understand the Mass then he shouldn’t be there. My son is actually pretty well behaved during Mass, but will often laugh inappropriately, chatter his teeth and makes other verbal noises.

One question…do you have any children?

More leaping. :tsktsk: I NEVER said that if he doesn’t understand the Mass he shouldn’t be there. Why, oh why do some posters on message boards insist on making things up when no one has said such a thing?

As to your question, yes, I do have a child, who is 26 years old now. I’ve already posted that. And no, we never had a problem with allowing her to act up in public.

 

[Mamanurse]

More leaping. :tsktsk: I NEVER said that if he doesn’t understand the Mass he shouldn’t be there. Why, oh why do some posters on message boards insist on making things up when no one has said such a thing?

As to your question, yes, I do have a child, who is 26 years old now. I’ve already posted that. And no, we never had a problem with allowing her to act up in public.

Sorry, when you responded to my post I assumed it was the person I was quoting earlier. I went to edit my post but my time limit had expired when I realized it wasn’t you. Someone else was saying something about not allowing children to attend Mass that didn’t understand what was going on. I do apologize for the misunderstanding.

 

[Jesus_123]

:bible1:
See that you
despise not one
of these little ones:

for I say to you,
that their angels in heaven
:angel1:
always
see the face of
My Father Who
is in heaven.
…
Even so it is
NOT
the will of your **
Father, Who is in heaven**,
that one of these little ones should perish.
- Jesus
*** - Matthew 18:10, 14***

. . . all for Jesus+​

 

[Faith1960]

Sorry, when you responded to my post I assumed it was the person I was quoting earlier. I went to edit my post but my time limit had expired when I realized it wasn’t you. Someone else was saying something about not allowing children to attend Mass that didn’t understand what was going on. I do apologize for the misunderstanding.

That’s okay, apology accepted. A lot of kids don’t know what’s going on during Mass but they should be there, too.

 

[Jesus_123]

:bible1:
But
Jesus
said to them:
Suffer the little children,
:thankyou: :flowers: shaw:
and forbid them not
to come to
me;
for the kingdom of heaven is for such. - Matthew 19:14

. . . all for Jesus+
. . . thank You Lord for so wonderfully
and mercifully loving our little ones+
​

 

[zab]

I am getting a bit distressed by this thread. There seem to be several things going on:

Group A-The thread was initiated by someone very upset by crying babies in church and the failure of parents to remove them as a distraction. This poster was supported by others having the same issue, and adding in toddlers and other children who misbehave in one way or another. The focus seems to be get them out of church and get them under control. In addition, all churches should have a cry room to avoid distressing the rest of the congregation.

Group B: Another group of posters seem angry with group A for having difficulty with the noise of young cheldren at Mass and blame the parent for not correcting their children and characterize the parents as entitled, prideful, or simply uncaring.

Group C: This group of posters are offering some insights as to the various conditions which might make kids “misbehave” and parents delay in making them stop. This group is asking for some understanding and tolerance at the least, and less judgementalism at best. Some of these people seem angry at groups A and B.

Group D: joins with group C in offering explanation and pleas for less judgementalism, but trying also to empathize with groups A and B.

The level of vitriol is rising in this discussion. Lets all try to have a little charity. I am close to reporting this thread to the mods because it is getting to be a bit vicious. This is my last post. on this thread. LIST]

Well, you are close. However, the thread was initiated by someone from your Group B not Group A. I would also add a Group E which included some individuals who offered some suggestions of what could be done- in a charitable way. I think this thread has run it’s course and is ending in the same viciousness as it was started. I’m with you- I’m done here, too.

 

[Imryl]

Here’s the simple answer.

My duty is first to God, then my spouse, then my children, and finally my neighbor and their dainty sensibilities.

Sorry, but ya’ll are on the caboose!

 

[Bearontherun]

:bible1:
See that you
despise not one
of these little ones:

for I say to you,
that their angels in heaven
:angel1:
always
see the face of
My Father Who
is in heaven.
…
Even so it is
NOT
the will of your **
Father, Who is in heaven**,
that one of these little ones should perish.
- Jesus
*** - Matthew 18:10, 14***

. . . all for Jesus+​

Just imagine…if we somehow found out that all those present at mass receive **more grace with these little ones present, how many minds would change. I believe that these little ones do elevate the mass **for all involved. After all, we know for certain that their angels hold special prominance with the Father.

 

[Defender1]

Touchet!:knight2:

Thank you

 

[Defender1]

Did Jesus tell you this personally? Do you have scripture to back this up? Because it seems to me the scripture most quoted in this thread says otherwise.

You know he did not tell me personally but a little thing called common sense of course did .
What exact scripture condones crying babies in mass ? Jesus did mass upstairs with his apostles and no disruptions whatsoever (with exception of Judas leaving)Jesus said to no keep the children away from him of course . But during the mass a different story .

 

[Defender1]

LOL. Did he tell you this Himself? If not, where in Catholic teaching do you find that Jesus can be disrupted in Mass by children?

refer to previous post by me to someone else today . Also Jesus performed mass with his apostles without disruption from children .

 

[Defender1]

Our pastor spoke about pride and humility in his homily this morning. Humility is when we care more about what God thinks of us than we care what other people may think of us. Most parents worry what others think about them when their children are acting up. It is their pride that sometimes keeps them from bringing their children to church so they won’t have to deal with them and what others think about them. I don’t think neglecting or delaying to take the children to the “quiet room” has anything to do with pride. Most likely there are other reasons that the parents do not like taking their children to the quiet rooms in your church. Many good parents have learned that cry rooms often do not help when trying to teach children how to behave in church. There are also other factors why cry rooms may deter parents. Are the cry rooms filled with adults who don’t belong there? Do your quiet rooms have windows or at least sound so the parents can hear what is going on? Is it carpeted or have some sound barrier so that the noise of the children does not create more of a problem? Children love to hear their echo. Do the children learn anything from going to the quiet room, mainly how to behave in church? Or do they get the impression that the quiet room is where they are allowed to play and be loud? Cry rooms (or quiet rooms) can be of good use provided that they are a temporary place to go for the parent who is having difficulty with their children. But often the negatives out weigh the positives. Our pastor and the last pastor understood this and decided againstt putting in a cry room when our church was restored/remodeled a few years ago.

Our cry rooms have speakers so it can be heard . ANd if its not for pride reasons it sounds like your saying its for selfish reasons.Equally disturbing of course . Babies not even toddlers are being brought into mass crying as well . What lessons do they have to learn? That is why children should be a certain age to not be in quiet room so that they can understand. I was a Eucharistic minister this week and behind me I heard a baby making noises I thought of this forum .The parents just let him stay in mass. However I must say that while standing outside mass doing work for my council , I seen numerous adults taking their children outside to calm them down , perhaps the selfish or prideful parents can take a page out of their book .