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RebeccaJ
Guest
You don’t worship a godhead ParkerD, so why are you pretending? Though the “Them” and “They” you are using lately really does underline your polytheism.
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RebeccaJ
Guest
Seems rather pagan-esque to me, this god that is so unsure of its own creation. Your god really does creep me out.
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zaffiroborant
Guest
Aren’t the missionaries taught to bear their “testimony”, isn’t that what that last bit is?
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1voice
Guest
Originally Posted by 1voice
…
Again … How does that square with …
Ezekiel 36:25-28 (KJV) "Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. {26} "I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. {27} “I will put My Spirit within you” and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them. {28} "Then you shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; you shall be My people, and I will be your God.
Is that not the same Spirit of God that entered into Jesus at his baptism and endued him with the same power … that Jesus promised, would fill his deciples, before he ascended? (He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire) … Which had its fulfillment at Pentecost… with the sign of the Holy Spirit speaking in tongues through them … and immediately expressing the wisdom and power of God, through Peter, that cut the people to the heart… and caused thousands of people to repent and be baptized and become deciples.
Jesus told the woman at the well that God is Spirit … therefore If Adam was the image of God… He was a Spiritual being (because “God is Spirit”) who was the image and likeness of God …
God’s image and likeness (“Spirit”) was placed into a physical body by God. At that point … Adam became the (image and likeness) son of God ( … the son of Enosh, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God. Luke 3:38)
The event that the Bible indicates as the moment when Adam’s physical body came to life … Was when God breathed into Adam’s face. That is when he got the power to be who he was.
Jesus, at the passover, before his crucifixion, told those with him that he would send … "the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.
And the Spirit that Jesus was talking about is … “the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead” ROMANS 8:11
Going foreword to Pentecost…
The Spirit of God … that Jesus had promised … came with the sound of a rushing, mighty wind … Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them … and the disciples were “filled with the Holy Spirit.”
… and, as with Adam, blowing wind … was the means God used to send/ transmit/transfer his Spirit (which was then manifested as tongues of fire) … and …(as with Adam) There was a rushing wind from God, immediately followed by the fact that the disciples … were “endued with power”.
… All that to say this…
If God used a rushing wind … and Jesus himself described the Holy Spirit as being like the wind (The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit." John 3:8)
… If God used that rushing wind … To impart “the one who raised Christ from the dead” (Romans 8:11) into the disciples.
What makes you think that he cannot/ did not employ the same** “rushing wind”** of the same Holy Spirit when he created his son, Adam, in his own image and likeness?
…
Again … How does that square with …
Ezekiel 36:25-28 (KJV) "Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. {26} "I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. {27} “I will put My Spirit within you” and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them. {28} "Then you shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; you shall be My people, and I will be your God.
Is that not the same Spirit of God that entered into Jesus at his baptism and endued him with the same power … that Jesus promised, would fill his deciples, before he ascended? (He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire) … Which had its fulfillment at Pentecost… with the sign of the Holy Spirit speaking in tongues through them … and immediately expressing the wisdom and power of God, through Peter, that cut the people to the heart… and caused thousands of people to repent and be baptized and become deciples.
Ok, So going back to Adam again … The Bible states that Adam was the image and likeness of God…
Jesus told the woman at the well that God is Spirit … therefore If Adam was the image of God… He was a Spiritual being (because “God is Spirit”) who was the image and likeness of God …
God’s image and likeness (“Spirit”) was placed into a physical body by God. At that point … Adam became the (image and likeness) son of God ( … the son of Enosh, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God. Luke 3:38)
The event that the Bible indicates as the moment when Adam’s physical body came to life … Was when God breathed into Adam’s face. That is when he got the power to be who he was.
Jesus, at the passover, before his crucifixion, told those with him that he would send … "the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.
And the Spirit that Jesus was talking about is … “the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead” ROMANS 8:11
Going foreword to Pentecost…
The Spirit of God … that Jesus had promised … came with the sound of a rushing, mighty wind … Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them … and the disciples were “filled with the Holy Spirit.”
… and, as with Adam, blowing wind … was the means God used to send/ transmit/transfer his Spirit (which was then manifested as tongues of fire) … and …(as with Adam) There was a rushing wind from God, immediately followed by the fact that the disciples … were “endued with power”.
… All that to say this…
If God used a rushing wind … and Jesus himself described the Holy Spirit as being like the wind (The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit." John 3:8)
… If God used that rushing wind … To impart “the one who raised Christ from the dead” (Romans 8:11) into the disciples.
What makes you think that he cannot/ did not employ the same** “rushing wind”** of the same Holy Spirit when he created his son, Adam, in his own image and likeness?
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1voice
Guest
It is my understanding that, according to LDS belief/ teaching…
each person has an eternal essence that has always existed.
Joseph Smith taught that…
“God never had the power to create the spirit of man at all.”
How does that fit with the Bible which states:
For by him (Jesus Christ) were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: Col 1:16
What do you think of this statement…
President Joseph Fielding Smith (President of the LDS Church in the early 1970’s) stated: “Mormonism must stand or fall on the story of Joseph Smith. He was either a Prophet of God, divinely called, properly appointed and commissioned or he was one of the biggest frauds this world has ever seen. There is no middle ground. If Joseph was a deceiver, who willfully attempted to mislead people, then he should be exposed, his claims should be refuted, and his doctrines shown to be false…” (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1 pp.188-189.)
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Florence8802
Guest
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1voice
Guest
Heads up kido
… you would be wise to delete that post… unless you dont care about getting dinged.
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entree_gratuite
Guest
Many children die without ever being able to take their first breath,cry.
Others in weeks months. Others have incurable diseases at birth,live in filth and poverty,never being aware enough to to know they are human etc .
One of the most terrible things about 'belief ’ without learning ,examination and
reason is that it is totally illogical,and causes ‘sin’ therefore.
Here are a few references from the bible on pre- existence.reincarnation
There are others I do not have in front of me,but will find.
Matthew 11: 13,14,16:13, 17 :12
John 9 :2-3.
I am looking up Solomon’s mention of his pre -existence for the ref.
Because of their lack of 'revelation 'and experience of this phenomenon, many
Christians /Catholics deny this ,but many Christians like myself,do not accept this
denial.
It is one of he central major reason for the falling away of already saved souls ,
from the western church,for it makes God Irrational ,Unjust,and Incomprehensible.
Since He is the Essence of Logic ,Justice ,and Love,and becomes more comprehensible
by searching for the truth, through Jesus, one must ask why the denial ,and fear.?
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ParkerD
Guest
1voice,
The subject of the “intelligence” has been discussed.
Here is the statement made by Joseph Smith:
“…God never had the power to create the spirit of man at all. God Himself could not create Himself. Intelligence is eternal and exists upon a self-existent principle.”
So the context shows more than the one phrase from the single sentence. The context, along with other teachings of Joseph Smith about an “intelligence”, and also another comment which states “Anything created cannot be eternal; and earth, water, etc., had their existence in an elementary state, from eternity.” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 158), shows that Joseph Smith was talking about the “elementary state” of the spirit, which he described as an “intelligence”.
I had already agreed with that concept. The “intelligence” is different than our created spirit, and was the precursor of the spirit and had a uniqueness from one to another.
I wouldn’t have made the statement in the way Joseph Fielding Smith made his statement that you cited, but I have no hesitation about Joseph Smith being a true prophet.
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ParkerD
Guest
1voice,
As far as your other post which cites Biblical verses, I agree with those verses, but don’t agree that the teaching that “every one that is born of the Spirit” received the Spirit from the wind–the statement is that “thou canst hear the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth”.
So the Spirit of God (the Holy Spirit) comes and goes and the senses of a person “sense” the presence of the Spirit. This was also taught by Elijah, who taught “the Lord was not in the wind: and after the wind an earthquake; but the Lord was not in the earthquake: And after the earthquake a fire; but the Lord was not in the fire: and after the fire a still small voice.” (1 Kings 19:11, 12)
The Romans passage ought to be read in the context of the entire Romans chapter 8. Verses 9 and 10 say “ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you.” and “if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.”
So these are not literal in the sense that the physical body becomes “dead” or “having no flesh” when the Holy Spirit is with a person. Paul is differentiating between “things of the flesh” and “things of the Spirit” (v. 5)
As far as your other post which cites Biblical verses, I agree with those verses, but don’t agree that the teaching that “every one that is born of the Spirit” received the Spirit from the wind–the statement is that “thou canst hear the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth”.
So the Spirit of God (the Holy Spirit) comes and goes and the senses of a person “sense” the presence of the Spirit. This was also taught by Elijah, who taught “the Lord was not in the wind: and after the wind an earthquake; but the Lord was not in the earthquake: And after the earthquake a fire; but the Lord was not in the fire: and after the fire a still small voice.” (1 Kings 19:11, 12)
The Romans passage ought to be read in the context of the entire Romans chapter 8. Verses 9 and 10 say “ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you.” and “if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.”
So these are not literal in the sense that the physical body becomes “dead” or “having no flesh” when the Holy Spirit is with a person. Paul is differentiating between “things of the flesh” and “things of the Spirit” (v. 5)
T
TexanKnight
Guest
And I, among millions of others have prayed sincerely in that way to know Them, so I know that They are ONE GOD, truly, with a Oneness that is also complete in all They do, in Their will, in Their love, and in Their united voice of truth and goodness and light. This acknowledges that the LDS version of god does diminish the Son. And the LDS belief diminishes god. There is no way that the LDS god can be the Great I AM. He is, rather, the Not-So-Great “I AM NOW, BUT WAS ONCE A SINFUL MAN”.
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KathleenGee
Guest
The apostasy that led to the Nicene Creed???
All Protestants believe to one degree or another the Nicene Creed…
It would be more accurate for Mormonism to declare that Christianity is a false religion and to center your faith on Joseph Smith.
The Nicene Creed is derived from the Apostles Creed. It simply expounds on the nature of God, of Christ, and the Holy Spirit…that all persons are of one same substance…always ‘IS’. God IS Who Is…“I Am Who Am”…And the Creed in either form bears the truth of the Apostles who actually knew Jesus, and lived with Him for 3 and a half years to attest He was born of a virgin, was crucified under Pontius Pilate, and was resurrected from the dead, providing us the Universal (Catholic and Apostolic Church), Who is ever faithful to us who hold on to Him, and the forgiveness of sins and our resurrection from death…to be like the Good Thief…united with Him in Paradise.
Joseph Smith made sweeping and invalidating claims in regards to Christianity, --and all religions for that matter, – based on a few visions, lasting how many minutes or so?..that can’t be compared at all to the 3.5 years the great witnesses of Christ…not one man … or two…or six men…but 12…
God said the Word, and the carnate world was created…the only spiritual world He created prior was the angels, and they were given only one test…to serve God or deny Him.
The Lord called the earth and all of His creation to multiply…There is nowhere in the Bible, including Wisdom …which is the greatest gift of the Holy Spirit…of the creation of a parallel spirit world with free thinking eternal spirits living next door to God…that is making them god beings as such.
Instead, Scripture says that God created man and from man, He created woman. From there, in union with God, man and woman had children. Then we become aware of new persons with free will and intellect and souls who contributed their story of faith…or unfaith…to mankind.
Following were the history of philosophers who saw man’s brokenness, who sought some form of restoring their brokenness with knowledge, so only the elite could acquire enlightenment and the masses draw from the outer image of enlightenment.
Rather believing in premortals, ‘eternal’ …that is the mark of God alone and not of any creature…we are not under the bondage of constant tests and exams by God, but rather seek healing for our brokenness and new life…that only Christ can give.
Christ became carnate, once Spirit, to heal our brokenness, rather than give us another test. He became a servant to us…the Son of Man…Who all of creation was preparing for after the Fall.
By relying on the Apostles and their testimony of Jesus Christ, we know this testimony does not lie or play games or test, but is rather the Good News given to the world. The Lord Jesus draws all men to Himself whether they believe or not.
Not passing tests, not knowing if God loves us or not, instead we continually each day surrender our life to Christ, we die to ourselves to gain new life, and redemption, in Him.
All Protestants believe to one degree or another the Nicene Creed…
It would be more accurate for Mormonism to declare that Christianity is a false religion and to center your faith on Joseph Smith.
The Nicene Creed is derived from the Apostles Creed. It simply expounds on the nature of God, of Christ, and the Holy Spirit…that all persons are of one same substance…always ‘IS’. God IS Who Is…“I Am Who Am”…And the Creed in either form bears the truth of the Apostles who actually knew Jesus, and lived with Him for 3 and a half years to attest He was born of a virgin, was crucified under Pontius Pilate, and was resurrected from the dead, providing us the Universal (Catholic and Apostolic Church), Who is ever faithful to us who hold on to Him, and the forgiveness of sins and our resurrection from death…to be like the Good Thief…united with Him in Paradise.
Joseph Smith made sweeping and invalidating claims in regards to Christianity, --and all religions for that matter, – based on a few visions, lasting how many minutes or so?..that can’t be compared at all to the 3.5 years the great witnesses of Christ…not one man … or two…or six men…but 12…
God said the Word, and the carnate world was created…the only spiritual world He created prior was the angels, and they were given only one test…to serve God or deny Him.
The Lord called the earth and all of His creation to multiply…There is nowhere in the Bible, including Wisdom …which is the greatest gift of the Holy Spirit…of the creation of a parallel spirit world with free thinking eternal spirits living next door to God…that is making them god beings as such.
Instead, Scripture says that God created man and from man, He created woman. From there, in union with God, man and woman had children. Then we become aware of new persons with free will and intellect and souls who contributed their story of faith…or unfaith…to mankind.
Following were the history of philosophers who saw man’s brokenness, who sought some form of restoring their brokenness with knowledge, so only the elite could acquire enlightenment and the masses draw from the outer image of enlightenment.
Rather believing in premortals, ‘eternal’ …that is the mark of God alone and not of any creature…we are not under the bondage of constant tests and exams by God, but rather seek healing for our brokenness and new life…that only Christ can give.
Christ became carnate, once Spirit, to heal our brokenness, rather than give us another test. He became a servant to us…the Son of Man…Who all of creation was preparing for after the Fall.
By relying on the Apostles and their testimony of Jesus Christ, we know this testimony does not lie or play games or test, but is rather the Good News given to the world. The Lord Jesus draws all men to Himself whether they believe or not.
Not passing tests, not knowing if God loves us or not, instead we continually each day surrender our life to Christ, we die to ourselves to gain new life, and redemption, in Him.
J
JustaServant
Guest
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KathleenGee
Guest
Being nice with all sorts of deflections – and creating responses as one goes along --…creates confusion and evolves into some sort of passive aggressive prosletyzing.
CAF is not to be used…to say the least, in promoting confusion…
CAF is not to be used…to say the least, in promoting confusion…
K
KathleenGee
Guest
1Voice…you won’t find anything in the Book of Wisdom that supports premortal existence.
Instead, what you are reading is the Third Person of the Holy Spirit defining His first and greatest fruit…Wisdom.
If you read particular passages, you will find that He is speaking of His help when we come to gates or passageways…the ‘y’ of the road. He also adds in another of His gifts – Prudence…on the right form for making a wise decision.
Likewise, the Third Person of the Holy Spirit is of One substance with God…The Holy Spirit IS…“I Am Who Am”…
Instead, what you are reading is the Third Person of the Holy Spirit defining His first and greatest fruit…Wisdom.
If you read particular passages, you will find that He is speaking of His help when we come to gates or passageways…the ‘y’ of the road. He also adds in another of His gifts – Prudence…on the right form for making a wise decision.
Likewise, the Third Person of the Holy Spirit is of One substance with God…The Holy Spirit IS…“I Am Who Am”…
K
KathleenGee
Guest
To seek premortal existence is in essence seeking justification that we were also eternal and God like.
This quest is the fruit offered by the Tree Knowledge of Good and Evil while rejecting the fruit of the Tree of Life…Jesus Christ.
Jesus Christ is the proper and only righteous answer for mankind regarding the question of our own mortality. At the Transfiguration, Our Lord makes it clear that He is separate in His divinity from the Apostles He chose to witness this event…the sign of His forthcoming ministry of the divine…from His earthly ministry.
This quest is the fruit offered by the Tree Knowledge of Good and Evil while rejecting the fruit of the Tree of Life…Jesus Christ.
Jesus Christ is the proper and only righteous answer for mankind regarding the question of our own mortality. At the Transfiguration, Our Lord makes it clear that He is separate in His divinity from the Apostles He chose to witness this event…the sign of His forthcoming ministry of the divine…from His earthly ministry.
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truthsave
Guest
Again, the problem in mormonisms is their arrogance to call themselves Christians but they are just Smithonians.
The concept in premortal existens as spirits is more in hinduism, religion wich theory I found very interesting and that I love. But I am Christians not because I choose a theory that rationally found more interesting then another but because I have faith in Jesus Christ.
In LDS teaching they take a word from St. Paul to baptize the dead. (Not difficult to see if you wnat to find out that was not a St. Paul teaching). At the same time many things said by him don’t mean anythings such as questions about marriage, food and so on. LDS desperatly miss coherence (the use the most deep effort just to be coherent to Joseph Smith), spirituality is confused with good behaviour and so on.
More so they are extremely insulting toward Christianity teachings. But since they are polite they think can be done.
It is like somebody shooting at me in a polite way and saying he didn’t really want to. I received a bullet nevertheless, and expecially after I say to him, listen you have already shot at me once don’t do it again, he doesn’t accept it. The problem is just me being on the way of his shooting.
The concept in premortal existens as spirits is more in hinduism, religion wich theory I found very interesting and that I love. But I am Christians not because I choose a theory that rationally found more interesting then another but because I have faith in Jesus Christ.
In LDS teaching they take a word from St. Paul to baptize the dead. (Not difficult to see if you wnat to find out that was not a St. Paul teaching). At the same time many things said by him don’t mean anythings such as questions about marriage, food and so on. LDS desperatly miss coherence (the use the most deep effort just to be coherent to Joseph Smith), spirituality is confused with good behaviour and so on.
More so they are extremely insulting toward Christianity teachings. But since they are polite they think can be done.
It is like somebody shooting at me in a polite way and saying he didn’t really want to. I received a bullet nevertheless, and expecially after I say to him, listen you have already shot at me once don’t do it again, he doesn’t accept it. The problem is just me being on the way of his shooting.
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lax16
Guest
Oh my heck - no more ParkerD?? 
He will be hard to replace but I am sure it was for a good reason.
He will be hard to replace but I am sure it was for a good reason.
M
Miriam1947
Guest
ParkerD has been banned? He was here this morning when I was on.
I really thought he would never be banned. I think I am going to miss him but I also think that he may have crossed the line into Proselytizing.
I really thought he would never be banned. I think I am going to miss him but I also think that he may have crossed the line into Proselytizing.
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TexanKnight
Guest
I will continue to pray for him. I still get excited when I think of him in RCIA and the discussions we could have!
In His Grip
In His Grip
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