Okay, so the discussion has gone a little awry, that’s not so unusual.
So please answer that question I posed. If God created us, body and spirit, so that we are 100% created by him, how is it He’s capable of creating good and evil people? I know, everything He creates is perfect and blah, blah, blah, original sin but are you saying that it’s totally random who gets corrupted and who doesn’t?
There you go again, claiming that we believe God creates
both, our body as well as our soul, blah, blah, blah, when it’s been explained to you many times (several times by me as well as by others), that our parents procreate our flesh (which is already corrupt in some degree, because it comes from our corrupt [imperfect] parents), and
God only creates our perfect soul. Our soul then becomes corrupt, when God infuses it into our corrupt flesh/body. The soul is only created (by God) when the body is conceived (by human beings), but not before the sperm is joined to the egg. Are you really that incredibly dense, or are you just playing stupid to annoy people? I really have to wonder about that.
We’re all created with free will from birth, in the same way that Adam & Eve were created with free will, from the time they were created by God, and long before they ever ate the fruit. Their eating the fruit had nothing to do with anyone having, or gaining, free will. All of God’s creatures had free will from the time He created them, including the angels. Even in LDS beliefs, the supposed “council” of “spirit bodies” must have already had “free agency” in order to ever make a decision on which “plan” to follow. So, that fact alone makes all of their beliefs concerning Adam & Eve and the fruit, completely devoid of any purpose or logic.
Because of the sin of Adam & Eve, all flesh that comes from them is as corrupt as they made themselves, because the
entire physical plane of existence is/was permanently effected by their sinful actions. They’re responsible for all evil being introduced into the whole universe, just by eating the fruit that God told them not to touch, or they would “surely die”. Death didn’t exist at all before that time, because everything God created was perfect, until then. Before their sin, evil only existed in hell, where the devil was sent with all of his evil angels. But, Adam & Eve opened the “gate” that separated good from evil, and allowed those evil angels to corrupt everything else that existed in the physical plane.
The only reason that a soul becomes corrupt, is because of the imperfect world and corrupted flesh that it becomes a part of when it’s conceived and joined to its body. The degree that a body has been corrupted by the presence of evil/sin in the parents, can also affect how badly that soul may also be corrupted. But, the Grace of God can always change the effects that sin has on any soul, if that’s what He wants to do. He has power to do whatever He wants, despite the corruption of all mankind.
What purpose would there be for Baptism, if it wasn’t to wash away the corruption of sin from the souls of human beings that are born with it? What do LDS think Baptism does? Why is this world so evil and corrupt if Adam & Eve didn’t cause it to become that way, by eating the fruit so they would know both, good*** and evil?*** If that didn’t have any negative effect on the whole world, then why were they banished from the Garden of Eden* after they did it? There wouldn’t be any need whatsoever for a ‘plan of salvation’, or for a Savior, if evil didn’t corrupt the whole world when they ate that fruit.
- (IMHO… Heaven was originally merged with the perfect earth that God created [aka: the Garden of Eden], before they were completely separated from each other when Adam & Eve sinned, because evil can never exist together with God. I believe that’s when the separation was made between the physical world and spiritual world.[17] And to Adam he said: Because thou hast hearkened to the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldst not eat, cursed is the earth in thy work; with labour and toil shalt thou eat thereof all the days of thy life. [18] Thorns and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herbs of the earth.
[23] And the Lord God sent him out of the paradise of pleasure, to till the earth from which he was taken. [24] And he cast out Adam; and placed before the paradise of pleasure Cherubims, and a flaming sword, turning every way, to keep the way of the tree of life. I also believe they will be merged together again, at the General Resurrection of the dead, and become the “New Earth”. But, this part is just my own personal opinion and interpretation of the Garden of Eden. I really don’t think it’s ever been a teaching of the Catholic Church, and I also hope it doesn’t conflict with any Church teaching on the subject.)
but the LDS people I’ve known are really quite lovely AND some of the VERY BEST PEOPLE I KNOW and LOVE! :curtsey:
