Scriptural Evidence: The Immaculate Conception Of Mary

[NonCatholic]

Isaiah 66: 7 Before she comes to labor, she gives birth; Before the pains come upon her, she safely delivers a male child. 8 Who ever heard of such a thing, or saw the like? 9 Shall I bring a mother to the point of birth, and yet not let her child be born? says the LORD; Or shall I who allow her to conceive, yet close her womb? says your God. 10 Rejoice with Jerusalem and be glad because of her, all you who love her; Exult, exult with her

Isaiah 66:5-14
5 Hear the word of the LORD, you who tremble at His word: "Your brothers who hate you, who exclude you for My name’s sake, Have said, ‘Let the LORD be glorified, that we may see your joy.’ But they will be put to shame.(the hypocrites of the Jewish nation) 6 "A voice of uproar from the city, a voice from the temple, The voice of the LORD who is rendering recompense to His enemies. 7 "Before she travailed, she brought forth; Before her pain came, she gave birth to a boy. 8 "Who has heard such a thing? Who has seen such things? Can a land be born in one day? Can a nation be brought forth all at once? As soon as Zion travailed, she also brought forth her sons. 9 “Shall I bring to the point of birth and not give delivery?” says the LORD. “Or shall I who gives delivery shut {the womb?}” says your God. 10 “Be joyful with Jerusalem and rejoice for her, all you who love her; Be exceedingly glad with her, all you who mourn over her, 11 That you may nurse and be satisfied with her comforting breasts, That you may suck and be delighted with her bountiful bosom.” 12 For thus says the LORD, "Behold, I extend peace to her like a river, And the glory of the nations like an overflowing stream; And you will be nursed, you will be carried on the hip and fondled on the knees. 13 “As one whom his mother comforts, so I will comfort you; And you will be comforted in Jerusalem.” 14 Then you will see {this,} and your heart will be glad, And your bones will flourish like the new grass; And the hand of the LORD will be made known to His servants, But He will be indignant toward His enemies.

I thought this would read better in its context; taking one verse may lead to error in understanding. This does not reference Mary, but rather the birth of the church.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Isaiah 66:5-14
5 Hear the word of the LORD, you who tremble at His word: "Your brothers who hate you, who exclude you for My name’s sake, Have said, ‘Let the LORD be glorified, that we may see your joy.’ But they will be put to shame.(the hypocrites of the Jewish nation) 6 "A voice of uproar from the city, a voice from the temple, The voice of the LORD who is rendering recompense to His enemies. 7 "Before she travailed, she brought forth; Before her pain came, she gave birth to a boy. 8 "Who has heard such a thing? Who has seen such things? Can a land be born in one day? Can a nation be brought forth all at once? As soon as Zion travailed, she also brought forth her sons. 9 “Shall I bring to the point of birth and not give delivery?” says the LORD. “Or shall I who gives delivery shut {the womb?}” says your God. 10 “Be joyful with Jerusalem and rejoice for her, all you who love her; Be exceedingly glad with her, all you who mourn over her, 11 That you may nurse and be satisfied with her comforting breasts, That you may suck and be delighted with her bountiful bosom.” 12 For thus says the LORD, "Behold, I extend peace to her like a river, And the glory of the nations like an overflowing stream; And you will be nursed, you will be carried on the hip and fondled on the knees. 13 “As one whom his mother comforts, so I will comfort you; And you will be comforted in Jerusalem.” 14 Then you will see {this,} and your heart will be glad, And your bones will flourish like the new grass; And the hand of the LORD will be made known to His servants, But He will be indignant toward His enemies.

I thought this would read better in its context; taking one verse may lead to error in understanding. This does not reference Mary, but rather the birth of the church.

Gabriel of 12;
Very interesting, so when Isaiah gave the sign from God about the “Virgin will give birth to a son” has nothing to do with Jesus’s birth from Mary, although Isaiah was speaking to another King who befriended God’s enemies?

Your interpretation reveals your spiritual undertaking and understanding of God’s revealed Word. No matter your education, if you cant see the New Testament hidden in the Old Testament and the Old Testament revealed in the New Testament. What are you doing interpreting Sacred Scripture.

We are talking about things of the Spirit that reveal Spiritual realities not just letters on the page. If your scriptural interpretation only leaves your faith on the letters of page, you have much to learn about the Spirit who teaches and reveals all things from God. That is why “Sola Scriptura” is a heresy of the Christian faith. A true Christian cannot limit God to the letter of the page.

Besides, the prophets foretell what is hidden from the evil one about both the Virgin Mary and the Catholic church the body of Jesus Christ. Evil cannot see these spiritual realities being foretold, how come you cant see them if you are a Christian?

For one Jerusalem never gave birth to the Messiah child, Jerusalem tried to kill him. This scripture reveals more than the Blessed Virgin Mary and the Church, for one you cannot seperate the body of Jesus Christ, for what God has joined no man can put assunder, unless you begin to interpret God’s Word the way you choose too outside the body of Jesus Christ, then you and a host of other non Catholics will come up with different interpetations of the text.

The Catholic interpretation reveals both the literal historical interpretation as well as the revealed Spiritual reality of God’s word revealed to the Catholic church by Jesus. Case in point, remember when Jesus interpeted “ALL Scriptures” that pertained to him on the road to Emmaus? Welcome to Sacred Tradition of the Catholic church.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Isaiah 66: 7 Before she comes to labor, she gives birth; Before the pains come upon her, she safely delivers a male child. 8 Who ever heard of such a thing, or saw the like? 9 Shall I bring a mother to the point of birth, and yet not let her child be born? says the LORD; Or shall I who allow her to conceive, yet close her womb? says your God. 10 Rejoice with Jerusalem and be glad because of her, all you who love her; Exult, exult with her

The Church since her beginning at Pentecost has suffered much labor pains, beside the Church did not give birth to Jesus. Mary did not according to Isaiah. Jerusalem suffered much pains, and “his own did not recieve him”, So it was not Jersualem who gave birth to a male child. Only Mary fits the scripture, because God put "Enmity between the Woman (Mary) and satan for Mary to be without original sin that brings the curse of birth pains, which Isaiah confirms She safely delivers a male child.

 

[rinnie]

Isaiah 66: 7 Before she comes to labor, she gives birth; Before the pains come upon her, she safely delivers a male child. 8 Who ever heard of such a thing, or saw the like? 9 Shall I bring a mother to the point of birth, and yet not let her child be born? says the LORD; Or shall I who allow her to conceive, yet close her womb? says your God. 10 Rejoice with Jerusalem and be glad because of her, all you who love her; Exult, exult with her

The Church since her beginning at Pentecost has suffered much labor pains, beside the Church did not give birth to Jesus. Mary did not according to Isaiah. Jerusalem suffered much pains, and “his own did not recieve him”, So it was not Jersualem who gave birth to a male child. Only Mary fits the scripture, because God put "Enmity between the Woman (Mary) and satan for Mary to be without original sin that brings the curse of birth pains, which Isaiah confirms She safely delivers a male child.

Very good post. Which proves the point that Mary did not have pain, because she was free from original sin.

 

[NonCatholic]

Isaiah 66:5-14
5 Hear the word of the LORD, you who tremble at His word: "Your brothers who hate you, who exclude you for My name’s sake, Have said, ‘Let the LORD be glorified, that we may see your joy.’ But they will be put to shame.(the hypocrites of the Jewish nation) 6 "A voice of uproar from the city, a voice from the temple, The voice of the LORD who is rendering recompense to His enemies. 7 "Before she travailed, she brought forth; Before her pain came, she gave birth to a boy. 8 "Who has heard such a thing? Who has seen such things? Can a land be born in one day? Can a nation be brought forth all at once? As soon as Zion travailed, she also brought forth her sons. 9 “Shall I bring to the point of birth and not give delivery?” says the LORD. “Or shall I who gives delivery shut {the womb?}” says your God. 10 “Be joyful with Jerusalem and rejoice for her, all you who love her; Be exceedingly glad with her, all you who mourn over her, 11 That you may nurse and be satisfied with her comforting breasts, That you may suck and be delighted with her bountiful bosom.” 12 For thus says the LORD, "Behold, I extend peace to her like a river, And the glory of the nations like an overflowing stream; And you will be nursed, you will be carried on the hip and fondled on the knees. 13 “As one whom his mother comforts, so I will comfort you; And you will be comforted in Jerusalem.” 14 Then you will see {this,} and your heart will be glad, And your bones will flourish like the new grass; And the hand of the LORD will be made known to His servants, But He will be indignant toward His enemies.

I thought this would read better in its context; taking one verse may lead to error in understanding. This does not reference Mary, but rather the birth of the church.

Correction from previous post this reference to Israel, not the birth of the church. Israels suffering will end with a delivery. The Lord will not impose travail on the remnant without bringing them to the Kingdom. Verse 10

 

[NonCatholic]

Gabriel of 12;
Very interesting, so when Isaiah gave the sign from God about the “Virgin will give birth to a son” has nothing to do with Jesus’s birth from Mary, although Isaiah was speaking to another King who befriended God’s enemies?

Your interpretation reveals your spiritual undertaking and understanding of God’s revealed Word. No matter your education, if you cant see the New Testament hidden in the Old Testament and the Old Testament revealed in the New Testament. What are you doing interpreting Sacred Scripture.

We are talking about things of the Spirit that reveal Spiritual realities not just letters on the page. If your scriptural interpretation only leaves your faith on the letters of page, you have much to learn about the Spirit who teaches and reveals all things from God. That is why “Sola Scriptura” is a heresy of the Christian faith. A true Christian cannot limit God to the letter of the page.

Besides, the prophets foretell what is hidden from the evil one about both the Virgin Mary and the Catholic church the body of Jesus Christ. Evil cannot see these spiritual realities being foretold, how come you cant see them if you are a Christian?

For one Jerusalem never gave birth to the Messiah child, Jerusalem tried to kill him. This scripture reveals more than the Blessed Virgin Mary and the Church, for one you cannot seperate the body of Jesus Christ, for what God has joined no man can put assunder, unless you begin to interpret God’s Word the way you choose too outside the body of Jesus Christ, then you and a host of other non Catholics will come up with different interpetations of the text.

The Catholic interpretation reveals both the literal historical interpretation as well as the revealed Spiritual reality of God’s word revealed to the Catholic church by Jesus. Case in point, remember when Jesus interpeted “ALL Scriptures” that pertained to him on the road to Emmaus? Welcome to Sacred Tradition of the Catholic church.

Thanks for the kind words…however you overlook something very obvious…the delivery hasn’t occurred yet-see verse 9; therefore it is about Israel being redeemed an event that has not happened yet, which has not occurred yet. Mary gave birth to Jesus already, with pain I’m sure…ask any woman who has ever given birth naturally if it was painful.

 

[Good_Fella]

Revelation 12 is the nation of Israel…she has yet to be joined, betrothed, but not united yet, but with the promise to be united in the end. Plus the reference to the Great tribulation, in which Israel’s eyes will be open and the fleeing to the hills where God has prepared “a safe haven” during the tribulation…all points to Israel.

Then the dragon became angry with the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring, those who keep God’s commandments and bear witness to Jesus.
Revelation 12, 17

The woman of Revelation 12 may aslo symbolize the Church.

On that day there broke out a great persecution of the church in Jerusalem, and all were scattered throughout the countryside of Judea and Samaria, except the apostles. Devout men buried Stephen and made a loud lament over him. Saul, meanwhile, was trying to destroy the church; entering house after house and dragging out men and women, he handed them over for imprisonment.
Acts 8, 1-3

“Blessed are you when they insult you and persecute you and utter every kind of evil against you because of me. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward will be great in heaven. Thus they persecuted the prophets who were before you.”
Matthew 5, 11-12

And the woman may also refer to the Blessed Virgin Mary.

“I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring.”
Genesis 3, 15

When Jesus saw his mother and the disciple there whom he loved, he said to his mother, * “Woman, behold your son.” Then to the disciple he said, * “Behold your mother.”
John 19, 26-27

“For whoever does the will of my heavenly Father is my brother, and sister, and mother.”
Matthew 12, 50

For those he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, so that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.
Romans 8, 29

John does not allude to Israel in verse 17 when he refers to the woman. The Jews do not bear witness to Jesus, having rejected him. And it was the Jewish religious leaders who had persecuted the infant church in Jerusalem. In verse 1 the woman may represent either Israel, the Church, or Mary in different aspects.

PAX :tiphat:

 

[Good_Fella]

Thanks for the kind words…however you overlook something very obvious…the delivery hasn’t occurred yet-see verse 9; therefore it is about Israel being redeemed an event that has not happened yet, which has not occurred yet. Mary gave birth to Jesus already, with pain I’m sure…ask any woman who has ever given birth naturally if it was painful.

Mary isn’t just any ordinary woman.

“Most blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb.”
Luke 1, 42

Sinful Eve gave birth to Cain, having conceived him naturally; sinless Mary (the new Eve) gave birth to Jesus (the new Adam), having conceived him miraculously by the power of the Holy Spirit. She experienced no pain when she gave birth to Jesus. His birth was as miraculous as his conception. In Galatians 4:4, Paul intended to write Jesus was ‘made’ of a woman, not ‘born’ of a woman.

Can you ask any woman if she has given birth to God’s Only-begotten Son?

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Thanks for the kind words…however you overlook something very obvious…the delivery hasn’t occurred yet-see verse 9; therefore it is about Israel being redeemed an event that has not happened yet, which has not occurred yet. Mary gave birth to Jesus already, with pain I’m sure…ask any woman who has ever given birth naturally if it was painful.

You do know we are reading from Isaiah the prophet? Of course the birth of Christ has not happened yet, The prophet makes this prophecy in his time referencing present events as well as prophetically to the Virgin Birth of Jesus, this is the mystery of God’s word which is eternal. I dont understand why you think Mary gave birth to Jesus already? this is a prophecy as well as referring to present events in Isaiah time.

This scripture references Mary giving birth to Jesus without birth pain from the curse of original sin;
7 "Before she travailed, she brought forth; Before her pain came, she gave birth to a boy. 8 "Who has heard such a thing? Who has seen such things?

Yes every woman who gave birth knows of birth pains, but the Prophet Isaiah states clearly, "Who has heard such a thing? Who has seen such things? Before her pain came, she gave birth to a boy. Only Mary most blessed among Woman who gave birth to the male child Jesus. Then the pains come upon her later during her son Jesus’s crucifixion.

Mary gave birth to a male child.

The church did not give birth to a male child, the church came after the birth, ministry, passion, death and resurrection after Jesus Christ.

Then the church gives birth to her many sons with birth pains, such as the blood of martrys and saints.

Jerusalem did not give birth to a male child. Jerusalem tried to kill the new born Jesus, “these were his own and his own did not recieve him”

This scripture references the Church here for it is here that gives birth to her sons. Zion is the new covenant church, the new Israel, the new Jerusalem in the communion of saints that live in heaven and on earth. There is much to these scriptures that gets revealed in the gospels and Revelations, which you appear to be relating the scripture.
Can a land be born in one day? Can a nation be brought forth all at once?
As soon as Zion travailed, she also brought forth her sons. 9 “Shall I bring to the point of birth and not give delivery?” says the LORD. “Or shall I who gives delivery shut {the womb?}” says your God. 10 "Be joyful with Jerusalem and rejoice for her, all you who love her; Be exceedingly glad with her

 

[rinnie]

You do know we are reading from Isaiah the prophet? Of course the birth of Christ has not happened yet, The prophet makes this prophecy in his time referencing present events as well as prophetically to the Virgin Birth of Jesus, this is the mystery of God’s word which is eternal. I dont understand why you think Mary gave birth to Jesus already? this is a prophecy as well as referring to present events in Isaiah time.

This scripture references Mary giving birth to Jesus without birth pain from the curse of original sin;
7 "Before she travailed, she brought forth; Before her pain came, she gave birth to a boy. 8 "Who has heard such a thing? Who has seen such things?

Yes every woman who gave birth knows of birth pains, but the Prophet Isaiah states clearly, "Who has heard such a thing? Who has seen such things? Before her pain came, she gave birth to a boy. Only Mary most blessed among Woman who gave birth to the male child Jesus. Then the pains come upon her later during her son Jesus’s crucifixion.

Mary gave birth to a male child.

The church did not give birth to a male child, the church came after the birth, ministry, passion, death and resurrection after Jesus Christ.

Then the church gives birth to her many sons with birth pains, such as the blood of martrys and saints.

Jerusalem did not give birth to a male child. Jerusalem tried to kill the new born Jesus, “these were his own and his own did not recieve him”

This scripture references the Church here for it is here that gives birth to her sons. Zion is the new covenant church, the new Israel, the new Jerusalem in the communion of saints that live in heaven and on earth. There is much to these scriptures that gets revealed in the gospels and Revelations, which you appear to be relating the scripture.
Can a land be born in one day? Can a nation be brought forth all at once?
As soon as Zion travailed, she also brought forth her sons. 9 “Shall I bring to the point of birth and not give delivery?” says the LORD. “Or shall I who gives delivery shut {the womb?}” says your God. 10 "Be joyful with Jerusalem and rejoice for her, all you who love her; Be exceedingly glad with her

I love to read what you write Gabriel you know our faith so well. And you just know how to explain it and make it sound so simple. That is proof that you have such a good understanding of it.

 

[NonCatholic]

Here is my point. We all know Jesus was perfect without sin, Agreed. But it is said on every site about the Blessed Mother that she could not have been sinless because her Parents had sin. So she had to have been born into this world with sin. Now if the Blessed Mother had to be born of sin, because of her parents then so would Jesus right? See my point?

She was with sin because, like all of us, we are human and not God. Anyone who claims Mary of the Bible was without sin, then they make God and Mary of the Bible liar’s. 1John …or you make Mary a goddess. Mary said herself she was a sinner, not directly, but it is implicit in her statement when she said my Lord and my SAVIOR. A sinless person does not need a Savior because the very nature of needing Jesus is because of our sin. You can slice and dice Mary all you want, but the Biblical account will stand for eternity.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

I love to read what you write Gabriel you know our faith so well. And you just know how to explain it and make it sound so simple. That is proof that you have such a good understanding of it.

Blessings rinnie, thank you for your kind words. I can only share what the One Holy Catholic Apostolic church has given me.

Praise be Jesus Christ both now and forever.

 

[Frontline]

Here is my point. We all know Jesus was perfect without sin, Agreed. But it is said on every site about the Blessed Mother that she could not have been sinless because her Parents had sin. So she had to have been born into this world with sin. Now if the Blessed Mother had to be born of sin, because of her parents then so would Jesus right? See my point?

That is not my reasoning. Mine is the otherway around.

But you refuse to answer my question.

If Mary was not sinless, could Christ still have been born without sin?

This is a yes or no question.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

She was with sin because, like all of us, we are human and not God. Anyone who claims Mary of the Bible was without sin, then they make God and Mary of the Bible liar’s. 1John …or you make Mary a goddess. Mary said herself she was a sinner, not directly, but it is implicit in her statement when she said my Lord and my SAVIOR. A sinless person does not need a Savior because the very nature of needing Jesus is because of our sin. You can slice and dice Mary all you want, but the Biblical account will stand for eternity.

NonCatholic, your are correct Mary indeed was in need of a savior. And she was saved through her Immaculate Conception. Gen.3:15, when God saved her first; before Satan could ever touch her with sin, this is the Enmity God placed on the Blessed Virgin Mary from the evil one.

The same concept applies in your baptism. You were saved in the baptismal waters, because of original sin and actual sin, Mary was saved before sin could ever taint her, according to God’s word.

Here is a common concept; Mary was saved before she walked into the puddle of mud (Mary is **full of Grace **and most blessed among women, according to scripture) we (are parted Grace) are saved after we have fallen into the puddle of mud.

 

[NonCatholic]

Then the dragon became angry with the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring, those who keep God’s commandments and bear witness to Jesus.
Revelation 12, 17

The woman of Revelation 12 may aslo symbolize the Church.

On that day there broke out a great persecution of the church in Jerusalem, and all were scattered throughout the countryside of Judea and Samaria, except the apostles. Devout men buried Stephen and made a loud lament over him. Saul, meanwhile, was trying to destroy the church; entering house after house and dragging out men and women, he handed them over for imprisonment.
Acts 8, 1-3

“Blessed are you when they insult you and persecute you and utter every kind of evil against you because of me. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward will be great in heaven. Thus they persecuted the prophets who were before you.”
Matthew 5, 11-12

And the woman may also refer to the Blessed Virgin Mary.

“I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring.”
Genesis 3, 15

When Jesus saw his mother and the disciple there whom he loved, he said to his mother, * “Woman, behold your son.” Then to the disciple he said, * “Behold your mother.”
John 19, 26-27

“For whoever does the will of my heavenly Father is my brother, and sister, and mother.”
Matthew 12, 50

For those he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, so that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.
Romans 8, 29

John does not allude to Israel in verse 17 when he refers to the woman. The Jews do not bear witness to Jesus, having rejected him. And it was the Jewish religious leaders who had persecuted the infant church in Jerusalem. In verse 1 the woman may represent either Israel, the Church, or Mary in different aspects.

PAX :tiphat:

Verse 17 reads "So the dragon was enraged with the woman (Israel), and went off to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus". We know that during the tribulation, which is what this whole scenario is engaged in., there is the 144,000 Jews which are what?..testifying about Jesus. Also, there are going to be a lot of believers that they have reached, so when the dragon goes after “rest of her children”, because they couldn’t get the one’s that are hidden and protected in the hills, then the dragon goes for all of the rest of the believers…could refer to Jews only, but I suspect the dragon is going more after all sons of Abraham by faith, which would be all believers, which would make more sense given the time, the tribulation…this is very fascinating and I’m glad I will be raptured prior to all of this…praise God!

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

That is not my reasoning. Mine is the otherway around.

But you refuse to answer my question.

If Mary was not sinless, could Christ still have been born without sin?

This is a yes or no question.

If Mary had any taint of sin, no Christ would not have been born from her, because it would defy all the prophetical accounts of the Virgin Birth and God’s promise. God could do what ever he wills to do be born or just appear always without sin, but I dont believe God could lie, decieve nor be decieved.

Besides Jesus was eternally begotten of the Father not made.

 

[Frontline]

If Mary had any taint of sin, no Christ would not have been born from her, because it would defy all the prophetical accounts of the Virgin Birth and God’s promise. God could do what ever he wills to do be born or just appear always without sin, but I dont believe God could lie, decieve nor be decieved.

Besides Jesus was eternally begotten of the Father not made.

First - since we do not agree upon what the Scriptures teach concerning the prophecies of immaculate conception - maybe we can reason together:

IF Mary did have sin, would it still be possible for Christ to be born without sin?

This is a yes or no question.

 

[fbl9]

First - since we do not agree upon what the Scriptures teach concerning the prophecies of immaculate conception - maybe we can reason together:

IF Mary did have sin, would it still be possible for Christ to be born without sin?

This is a yes or no question.

in a sense no bc Christ tok His dna form Mary…Orginal sin is a part of the human dna,

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

First - since we do not agree upon what the Scriptures teach concerning the prophecies of immaculate conception - maybe we can reason together:

IF Mary did have sin, would it still be possible for Christ to be born without sin?

This is a yes or no question.

Your question is bating, because it is unclear if you are referring for Christ to be born of Mary with sin or by another means? So it is not a yes, or no question.

I thought I answered in my above post?

Yes Christ could present himself without sin at any stage in creation when and however God wills. But he chose to be born of a woman.

No Christ could not be born of any woman with sin, For him to do so conflicts with God’s word. And I dont think he could be God if sin tainted our Savior. Besides Jesus would have a hard time getting followers if Mary was in sin, and Jesus claimed to be who he is.

 

[NonCatholic]

NonCatholic, your are correct Mary indeed was in need of a savior. And she was saved through her Immaculate Conception. Where in the Bible is this remotely, much less implicitly, much less less explicit??? Gen.3:15, when God saved her first; before Satan could ever touch her with sin, this is the Enmity God placed on the Blessed Virgin Mary from the evil one.
This is how your sentence would read: “when God saved her first; before Satan could ever touch her with sin, this is the HATRED (enmity) God placed on the Blessed Virgin Mary from the evil one.” Doesn’t make sense to me…

The same concept applies in your baptism. Don’t see a concept here…please clarify. Infant baptism and any other baptism claims to remove original sin or forgive sins prior to an age where the recipient makes a knowledgeable claim of repentance to Jesus…cannot be found/taught or implicit in all of the Bible…it is man made tradition without theological support. Any exception, such as death before accountability or mental impairment would be covered only by special grace, which is only implicit in the Bible. You were saved in the baptismal waters, because of original sin and actual sin, Mary was saved before sin could ever taint her, according to God’s word.

Here is a common concept; Mary was saved before she walked into the puddle of mud (Mary is **full of Grace **and most blessed among women, according to scripture) Read the Bible and you will not find anything remotely to “full of grace” concerning Mary of the bible. you will find "for you have found favor (grace) with God", we (are parted Grace) are saved after we have fallen into the puddle of mud.

Only the Hebrew word for enmity is “eybah”, which means “hatred”, so the passage reads: “And I will put hatred Between you and the woman, And between your seed and her seed; He shall bruise you on the head, And you shall bruise him on the heel.” - the war has been going on ever since.