scripture and homosexuality

[wisdomseeker]

this is the scripture

11Jesus replied, “Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given. 12For some are eunuchs because they were born that way; others were made that way by men; and others have renounced marriage[a]because of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.”

not every person can accept the word about a man woman one flesh relationship. but only those to whom it has been given. and even to those it has been given if they cannot accept it should nt do so.

enuchs can mean anything one who is not disposed to mating with the opposite sex, because of the way they were born, mentally, emotionally or physically. others were made that way from the trauma they suffered thru fellowman, and other renounced sexual relations thru the grace of god, for the sake of the kingdom…the spirit of celibacy being a gift of the spirit.

if those of the same sex bond thru the same spirit of mutual love, devotion, trust, attraction for a shared committed life together, the same as heterosexual couples …how can they be denied what is given heterosexuals…out of regulation?

Romans 7:6
But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the NEW WAY OF THE SPIRIT, and not in the old way of the written code.

that was the relationship we had to regulation under the old covenant.

hebrews8 says in regards to the old and new covenants is… that what is old becomes obsolete, and will eventually pass away.

under the new covenant “loving ones neighbor as oneself” is the summation of all the law. for same sex bonding to be a sin it has to come against loving ones neighbor as oneself. in other words, how does it violate the spirit of the commandment.

how does it?

For God sake. where in this passage mentions anything about homosexuality. Jesus is only talking about those who choose to marry and those who are chosen to be celibates for the Kingdom of God.

you also try to tell us that the love for our neighbor is the same as homosexual bonding. how do you get that?
i dont condenm noone, only God is the Judge. but please stop implying that our God mentions that He aproves homosexuals bonding if anything the Word of God condenms it.

show me in the Bible one case where two men marries or two women marries and had the blessing of God.

Loving our neighbors does not mean we go having sex with everybody to show that we love them? does it?

who says that the love God commands us to have for one another have anything to do with sex? this is sacrilege.

:bowdown2:

 

[jay29]

For God sake. where in this passage mentions anything about homosexuality. Jesus is only talking about those who choose to marry and those who are chosen to be celibates for the Kingdom of God.

you also try to tell us that the love for our neighbor is the same as homosexual bonding. how do you get that?
i dont condenm noone, only God is the Judge. but please stop implying that our God mentions that He aproves homosexuals bonding if anything the Word of God condenms it.

show me in the Bible one case where two men marries or two women marries and had the blessing of God.

Loving our neighbors does not mean we go having sex with everybody to show that we love them? does it?

who says that the love God commands us to have for one another have anything to do with sex? this is sacrilege.

:bowdown2:

**feetxxxl **has been trying to get people to believe that homosexual acts are allowed by God. They have been condemned all along.

They violate God’s natural laws: That is ENOUGH all by itself without even looking at one scripture verse.

 

[revelations]

of the church’s unscriptual teachings regarding the topic of homosexuality.

The catholic faith has no problems with non-scriptural teachings, in fact there are a whole bunch of them.

The teaching authority of the church is guided by God the Holy Spirit. Jesus left us Peter to teach us things that are right and holy, and since then there have been 200 men who continue to pass on the teaching of Jesus Christ. The catholic church is the whole of the teachings of Jesus Christ. If you have a problem with them, you have a problem with him.

When God was designing the waste management parts of a man, what do you think he had in mind? Surely not the abuses and perversions that are commonplace in homosexual relationships. Scripture does say a bunch about wasting the seed, and from common sense i think we could easily say that depositing the seed there is a waste. It literally ends up in the toilet. What more are homosexual acts than mutual masturbation?

Finally, the scripture doesn’t contradict the teachings of the church regarding homosexuality.

Give us some concrete examples. And “the bible doesnt say…” doesnt count.

 

[ChristianWAB]

believe what you want, but scripture has never declared homosexuality a sin.

Boy, you’re trying REALLY hard to put a positive spin on homosexuality, aren’t you?

So, if what you say is true, why are homosexuals included in the list of the people who won’t inherit the Kingdom of God in 1 Corinthians 6:9-10?

 

[feetxxxl]

"For God sake. where in this passage mentions anything about homosexuality. Jesus is only talking about those who choose to marry and those who are chosen to be celibates for the Kingdom of God. "

see message #358, page 24

ethnic slavery is an intolerable evil.

how do we know that when philemon makes no mention of slavery in this regard, which is why it was supported by the church for 1800 years. the church’s explanation, that it was god"s will to enslave ethnic non believers to make them believers.

why is it an intolerable sin?
because ethnics are our neighbors and slavery comes against loving ones neighbor as oneself.

for homosexuality to be a sin it must also come against loving ones neighbor as oneself, the summation of the all law.

how does it?

i have never heard the church’s rules about heterosexual marital sex. my understanding was that the marriage bed was sacred and not subject to judgement…in other words i know of no prohibitions against any form of anal stimulation, which would be ridiculous because the anus is an errogenous zone, probably because of being located so close to the clitotal area…and anal orgasms are possible.

also the test for that which is a sin is by its fruit(“you will recognize them by their fruit”)…example slavery…fruit being the things of spirit that there are laws against.

homosexuality is the bonding between 2 of rthe same sex in the same spirit as with heterosexuals for a committed shared life. the sexual intimacy is an affirmation and an expalnation of the devotion in the relationship as it is with heterosexuals.

in my church homosexual couples marry.

where is the sin?

urban.org/publications/411437.html

even with all the restrictions there 14,000 foster children, and 65,000 adopted children living in gay parented households. loving nurturing households equal to those of heterosexual married couples.

it was the devotion of these committed relationships that overflowed into the possibility of family for abandoned and rejected children of heterosexual unions.

what is the sin?

homosexuals have never beeen found wanting in any sector of society comparted to heterosexuals. they are not less a father, friend, lawyer, counselor ,adminisrator, neighbor, congregant, sister, brotther, pastor,etc

which could not be said of those given over to the sin nature of gal 5 compared to those that werent.

where’s the sin?

1 thess 5:21 test everything, keep the good.

jesus said you will recognize them by there fruit…

“The teaching authority of the church is guided by God the Holy Spirit. Jesus left us Peter to teach us things that are right and holy, and since then there have been 200 men who continue to pass on the teaching of Jesus Christ. The catholic church is the whole of the teachings of Jesus Christ. If you have a problem with them, you have a problem with him.”

the holy spirit lives inside us. it is christ’s living inside us, that identifies that we are part of him. this applies to all believers. and we our saved by grace thru faith. it is the inner that makes us of christ.

do you think the catholic church is better off because of luther’s 95 points?

 

[revelations]

My friend, you are so deeply confused it is not even funny. I will pray for all of you, and hope you will do the same.

Perhaps a same sex union makes everyone happy feely inside, but it is not a sacramental marriage before God.

 

[feetxxxl]

My friend, you are so deeply confused it is not even funny. I will pray for all of you, and hope you will do the same.

Perhaps a same sex union makes everyone happy feely inside, but it is not a sacramental marriage before God.

but scripture says we are of christ thru what is inner not from that which is without.

 

[feetxxxl]

Boy, you’re trying REALLY hard to put a positive spin on homosexuality, aren’t you?

So, if what you say is true, why are homosexuals included in the list of the people who won’t inherit the Kingdom of God in 1 Corinthians 6:9-10?

please explain how the greek “malebed” a compound word referring to an inanimate object can be transposed by the the word “homosexual”, an animate human being?

is that because of the influence of 400 years of the king henry instittued english law for the punishment of hanging for acts of sodomy, and the absence of seperation of church and state in england…its monarch being head of the church of england.

do you think paul is reinstituting a law, .that we under the new covenant are now to die to, to be of christ?

why do you think that your questions are answered, while mine are ignored?

 

[Bwsherman]

please explain how the greek “malebed” a compound word referring to an inanimate object can be transposed by the the word “homosexual”, an animate human being?

is that because of the influence of 400 years of the king henry instittued english law for the punishment of hanging for acts of sodomy, and the absence of seperation of church and state in england…its monarch being head of the church of england.

do you think paul is reinstituting a law, .that we under the new covenant are now to die to, to be of christ?

why do you think that your questions are answered, while mine are ignored?

Sorry…your comments here caught me a bit off guard. Not your homosexual position because that is very clear, but rather your attack on your own denomination. I guess I do not understand what your point was.

However, since you brought up the point of unanswered questions, what about the numerous times I have asked you to give some sort of backing for your interpretation of scripture? Could you please for once give me some understanding of where your interpretation stems from or if it does come from yourself then just say that? It would be greatly appreciated and I believe help most people on here understand at least in some way where you are coming from.

 

[LilyM]

but scripture says we are of christ thru what is inner not from that which is without.

Oh good, so if I decide that committing adultery (a deadly sin and directly against the commandments), and leaving my spouse and committing bigamy (in God’s eyes if not legally, since He hates divorce) by marrying my lover makes me happy and is my way of ‘loving my neighbour’ then I’ll be justified before God in doing it?

Let’s take this to its logical conclusion - I could decide that robbing you blind makes me happy and is in fact, in some fashion, actually my way of ‘loving’ you, by your logic, and thus consider myself justified before God in doing so.

 

[feetxxxl]

Sorry…your comments here caught me a bit off guard. Not your homosexual position because that is very clear, but rather your attack on your own denomination. I guess I do not understand what your point was.

However, since you brought up the point of unanswered questions, what about the numerous times I have asked you to give some sort of backing for your interpretation of scripture? Could you please for once give me some understanding of where your interpretation stems from or if it does come from yourself then just say that? It would be greatly appreciated and I believe help most people on here understand at least in some way where you are coming from.

to make along story short, until the election of robinson, i thought, because i had never studied romans, that the prohibition was something that, though i didnt understand, was something i was suppose to stand on in faith. after the election, i decided that i needed to determine in in my own heart as to whether scripture actually said homosexuality was a sin. i was prepared like with blasphemy of the holy spirit, to come to the conclusion that scripture really did declare it a sin even if i didnt understand it.

instead i came to the conclusion that scripture never said it was a sin. after coming to the conclusion. i went and fellowshipped with churches that supported homosexuality to see if there was a spirit in their ministry of denial , deception or deceit , or if there was any spirit that came against the spirit of the gospel, the fruiit of the spirt(gal), loving ones neighbor as oneself and the spirit of christ that i had come to know in my heart, from 20 years of studying scripture, ministering miraculous healings, exorcisms, neighborhood outreach, 7 years of kairos jail ministry, and 20 years of my own personnal heaing, in addition to christ living in my heart.

the reasoning i offer you is what i have discovered in asking questions(“test everything keep the good.”), trusting the holy spirit, and connecting the dots.

nothing i have said comes against against the spirit of the gospel. if there is than by all means tell me.

homosexuality may be the issue but i find more importance in understandings about" not having an old relationship to the written code", “serving and being led by the spirit”, the three commandments of love, we are not part of christ if he doesnt live in us, our fellowship witness of " if we walk in the light as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another", and "that which we have have looked at, which we have seen with our eyes, and our hands have touched.

 

[feetxxxl]

Oh good, so if I decide that committing adultery (a deadly sin and directly against the commandments), and leaving my spouse and committing bigamy (in God’s eyes if not legally, since He hates divorce) by marrying my lover makes me happy and is my way of ‘loving my neighbour’ then I’ll be justified before God in doing it?

Let’s take this to its logical conclusion - I could decide that robbing you blind makes me happy and is in fact, in some fashion, actually my way of ‘loving’ you, by your logic, and thus consider myself justified before God in doing so.

read romans …people commited acts of lust because they were given over to a spirit of lust

cain killed able because he was given over to a spirit of anger

david committed adultery and murder because he was given over to spirit of lust and a spirit of coveting his neighbors wife.

why do you consistently speak about hypotheticals and not about your own personal sin?

 

[Bwsherman]

to make along story short, until the election of robinson, i thought, because i had never studied romans, that the prohibition was something that, though i didnt understand, was something i was suppose to stand on in faith. after the election, i decided that i needed to determine in in my own heart as to whether scripture actually said homosexuality was a sin. i was prepared like with blasphemy of the holy spirit, to come to the conclusion that scripture really did declare it a sin even if i didnt understand it.

instead i came to the conclusion that scripture never said it was a sin. after coming to the conclusion. i went and fellowshipped with churches that supported homosexuality to see if there was a spirit in their ministry of denial , deception or deceit , or if there was any spirit that came against the spirit of the gospel, the fruiit of the spirt(gal), loving ones neighbor as oneself and the spirit of christ that i had come to know in my heart, from 20 years of studying scripture, ministering miraculous healings, exorcisms, neighborhood outreach, 7 years of kairos jail ministry, and 20 years of my own personnal heaing, in addition to christ living in my heart.

the reasoning i offer you is what i have discovered in asking questions(“test everything keep the good.”), trusting the holy spirit, and connecting the dots.

nothing i have said comes against against the spirit of the gospel. if there is than by all means tell me.

homosexuality may be the issue but i find more importance in understandings about" not having an old relationship to the written code", “serving and being led by the spirit”, the three commandments of love, we are not part of christ if he doesnt live in us, our fellowship witness of " if we walk in the light as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another", and "that which we have have looked at, which we have seen with our eyes, and our hands have touched.

Your line of thought was a little difficult to decipher, but I believe the answer you gave was that your understanding of the scriptures is a self-taught understanding. Please correct me if I am wrong. I am curious though. When you visited these churches that were accepting of homosexuality, could you really think that you were going to discover anything other than that which you already assumed to be true? That is to say, that homosexuality was not a sin.

I suppose what really blows my mind about the whole thing is your willingness to think your interpretations trump 2,000 years of interpretation by millions of Christians and biblical scholars. Not to mention the Early Church Fathers that directly proceded the Apostles whose writing contradicts your understanding. When it all comes down to it…what makes you correct and the great multitude of other people wrong?

 

[feetxxxl]

Your line of thought was a little difficult to decipher, but I believe the answer you gave was that your understanding of the scriptures is a self-taught understanding. Please correct me if I am wrong. I am curious though. When you visited these churches that were accepting of homosexuality, could you really think that you were going to discover anything other than that which you already assumed to be true? That is to say, that homosexuality was not a sin.

I suppose what really blows my mind about the whole thing is your willingness to think your interpretations trump 2,000 years of interpretation by millions of Christians and biblical scholars. Not to mention the Early Church Fathers that directly proceded the Apostles whose writing contradicts your understanding. When it all comes down to it…what makes you correct and the great multitude of other people wrong?

third time:do you think the catholic chuch is better off because of the postings of luther?

 

[Bwsherman]

third time:do you think the catholic chuch is better off because of the postings of luther?

I think I understand your point here, but to be frank. No. I think that there were practices by particular members of the Church that were not of God nor of His Church. These acts were indeed wrong and to be judged on the last day. However, Luther did nothing to help people in the “spirit of love”. He actually did quite to the contrary in his bashing of Zwingli and Calvin. Besides that there are numerous positions that Luther personally held as necessary to be considered Christian that the majority of Protestants would think to be ludicrous now. So, all I see from Luther is divisions and continued divisions from the initial division until you get the situation that we are in today with numerous sects claiming to know the truth of the gospel. All of which saying they get their teaching straight from scripture and yet they cannot even agree on something as widely accepted in the early church as the Trinity. Luther is highlighted as being responsible for causing a reform which had already begun when his 95 theses were posted.

 

[revelations]

read romans …people commited acts of lust because they were given over to a spirit of lust

cain killed able because he was given over to a spirit of anger

david committed adultery and murder because he was given over to spirit of lust and a spirit of coveting his neighbors wife.

why do you consistently speak about hypotheticals and not about your own personal sin?

Sure we are full of bad spirits, and we all have bad habits. I am: a masturbator, a pervert, a thief, a liar, a procrastinator, selfish person. In general, I am a man, and I am a sinner.

I don’t accept my sins, i hate them deeply. I repent of my sins and beg for mercy when i fall. I don’t say “i have a bad spirit” and go on with my life happy in my sin.

IT IS NOT NECESSARILY A GOOD THING TO BE GIVEN OVER TO THESE SPIRITS, and you must repent of your actions. Even if deep in your heart you desire so strongly to look at pornography, or to steal something, you must have the resolution to repent if you do. Saying “i steal” because i was given over to a spirit and it’s ok is totally against the sacrifice the Lord made for us.

It’s pick up your cross and follow me, not ignore your cross and rationalize it into something good.

Sin is ugly. Don’t try to flower it up.

 

[feetxxxl]

I think I understand your point here, but to be frank. No. I think that there were practices by particular members of the Church that were not of God nor of His Church. These acts were indeed wrong and to be judged on the last day. However, Luther did nothing to help people in the “spirit of love”. He actually did quite to the contrary in his bashing of Zwingli and Calvin. Besides that there are numerous positions that Luther personally held as necessary to be considered Christian that the majority of Protestants would think to be ludicrous now. So, all I see from Luther is divisions and continued divisions from the initial division until you get the situation that we are in today with numerous sects claiming to know the truth of the gospel. All of which saying they get their teaching straight from scripture and yet they cannot even agree on something as widely accepted in the early church as the Trinity. Luther is highlighted as being responsible for causing a reform which had already begun when his 95 theses were posted.

did you know that the church martyred jan hus 100 years before, for saying the very same things that luther posted

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan_Hus

the point is that the practice of penace was approved of by the pope, the administratiors and the teachers of the church for 1200 years.

 

[c659smith]

third time:do you think the catholic chuch is better off because of the postings of luther?

For one I do not think we are better off as there is a possibility of losing Luther’s Soul to Hell.

 

[truagape]

When God was designing the waste management parts of a man, what do you think he had in mind? Surely not the abuses and perversions that are commonplace in homosexual relationships. Scripture does say a bunch about wasting the seed, and from common sense i think we could easily say that depositing the seed there is a waste.

This is exactly the nonsense that seems to entertain most “Christians” when ever the topic of homosexuality arises. Prepare yourself because what I am about to type will for you indeed be a revelation. WHAT YOU JUST DESCRIBE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HOMOSEXUALITY!! In fact, there are many Christians both gay and straight who find the behavior that you desribed distasteful to say the least. And its worth noting that female HOMOSEXUALS are the ONLY ones where such an act is impossible. The same can not be said for HETROSEXUALS. So please if nothing else, please keep your facts “Straight!”

 

[truagape]

The catholic faith has no problems with non-scriptural teachings, in fact there are a whole bunch of them.

And that’s a really big problem; especially when you consider the over 4000 yrs of Biblcal history, upon which the Catholic faith is supposedly built.