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truagape
Guest
Surely, on this Catholic forum, there’s got to be Catholics, that own the 1966 Catholic JB bible.
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Eden
Guest
So, commentary in Jude 7, in a 1966 English-translation Jerusalem Bible is the hinge on which you will “dispel” the 2,000 year-old Church? You really think that highly of yourself? O.K. I choose “arrogance”.
If you’d like to prove something, please do the work. Relying on us to research what you want to say is, well, laughable.
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truagape
Guest
Do you have the 1966 JB bible or not?So, commentary in Jude 7, in a 1966 English-translation Jerusalem Bible is the hinge on which you will “dispel” the 2,000 year-old Church? You really think that highly of yourself? O.K. I choose “arrogance”.
If you’d like to prove something, please do the work. Relying on us to research what you want to say is, well, laughable.
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feetxxxl
Guest
elric
"Maybe research into homosexuality is in its infancy, but homosexuals acts have been going since the Biblical era and probably earlier. Do you think that science is somehow necessary in determining whether or not something is immoral? "
“I guess sometimes that has to be the case, especally if there is a claim of immorality about something you know nothing about.”
is it your understandinmg that you have to rely on science (biological,ansd social to determine your theology?
did you know that spirt is used 568 time in the bible; 201 in the old and 368 in the new.
are you not familiar with 1john “that which we have looked at, which we have seen with our eyes, and our hands have touched, this we proclaim about the word of life”
or jesus’s words “you will recognize them by their fruit”
"Maybe research into homosexuality is in its infancy, but homosexuals acts have been going since the Biblical era and probably earlier. Do you think that science is somehow necessary in determining whether or not something is immoral? "
“I guess sometimes that has to be the case, especally if there is a claim of immorality about something you know nothing about.”
is it your understandinmg that you have to rely on science (biological,ansd social to determine your theology?
did you know that spirt is used 568 time in the bible; 201 in the old and 368 in the new.
are you not familiar with 1john “that which we have looked at, which we have seen with our eyes, and our hands have touched, this we proclaim about the word of life”
or jesus’s words “you will recognize them by their fruit”
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Eden
Guest
No, and come to think of it, I don’t own anything from 1966. Am I understanding correctly that neither do you?
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truagape
Guest
Yes you are understanding correctly.
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truagape
Guest
Are you familiar with the commentary provided in that bible at Jude 7?
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revelations
Guest
You can spin it however you want…
You can play with words in whatever way you want…
You can rationalize actions with whatever poor understanding of scripture you want…
But at the end of the day there is one authority, and his name is Jesus Christ. On the last day you will be called to answer for your actions, and you won’t be able to say “but the bible says…” because Jesus left us the Church, which gave us the current bible. The Catholic Church doesn’t have to interpret scripture, because the church prepared the document.
Finally, let’s clear all this up here:
Follow Jesus, not the heresy of sola scriptura.
You can play with words in whatever way you want…
You can rationalize actions with whatever poor understanding of scripture you want…
But at the end of the day there is one authority, and his name is Jesus Christ. On the last day you will be called to answer for your actions, and you won’t be able to say “but the bible says…” because Jesus left us the Church, which gave us the current bible. The Catholic Church doesn’t have to interpret scripture, because the church prepared the document.
Finally, let’s clear all this up here:
- Homosexuality is fine. Having tendencies and sexual temptations involving same sex people is allll good. Temptations are just that.
- Sodomy and illicit sexual acts are wrong, and sinful. Any act, by any hetero, homo, lesbian, etc that isn’t open to the possibility of conception is sinful.
- Homosexuals can get married all they want, but the marriage IS NOT sacramental, i.e cool before God. In a same sex relationship, there is no fruit of love, i.e children conceived.
Follow Jesus, not the heresy of sola scriptura.
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Elric
Guest
hopeclinic.com/AbortionHistory.htm
flutterby.com/danlyke/religion/abortion.html
religioustolerance.org/abo_hist_c.htm
religioustolerance.org/abo_hist.htm
So you are claiming interperation?
Please!!!
Now you are contradicting yourself (See post #325). But all you gave was interperation of scripture.
What are you talking about now?
You are simply making another baseless accusation. I think that you should stop doing that.
Are you refering to the “coitus” remark?
But again, most of those have already been discussed and they are simply interperations of scripture.
You didnt from the start.
You never bothered to try and understand my point of view, you just saw what I wrote as being opposition to the church, and ultimatly yourself, and had to opose it yourself.
While I can understand your desire to defend the church from percieved attacks, I think that you have let yourself down in the way that you have done it (ie: baseless accusations, twisting statements, evasivness, changing the topic, dishonesty ect).
I already gave a pretty good idea on my line of thought here:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=3692920&postcount=203
Please read it again.
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truagape
Guest
The first of several problems with this post is an artifical word that finds inroads throughout all of scripture. It’s your use of the made-up, unGREEK, unHEBREW, unbiblical, misconceived, and falsely conclusive word that is “sodomy”. Until you understand that, you’ll be blind to the other errors of your posts.
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revelations
Guest
Ok, lets take the bible completely off the table then, and go with 2000 years of teaching authority and holy tradition given to us by God the Son himself and passed down through about 200 people to today.
I’m not talking about the bible here, i’m talking about sodomy. Need i describe the act to you in detail? Is it really that hard to understand why it is a sin?
Love the Lord, not your bible…
Also, i would love to hear you point out my errors.
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truagape
Guest
Would you agree the the “2000 years of teaching authority and holy tradition” is based off of the over 4000 years of biblical history? If so, then how in the world can you “take the bible complely off the table”?
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revelations
Guest
Because the bible doesn’t say anything about homosexuality, right? According to most of this post? So, if it doesn’t say anything about it we have to look to other sources…i.e history, teaching authority, etc
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revelations
Guest
And the bible is not the only law regarding Christian doctrine and teaching. It is useful for teaching, but it isn’t the sole rule of faith.
In this case, it isn’t useful, so we look to tradition.
In this case, it isn’t useful, so we look to tradition.
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truagape
Guest
You and I both know that other people’s posts is not the deciding factor. Isn’t it true that according to the Catholic Catechism it provides its teaching regarding homosexuality “baseing itself on sacred scripture…” ? So to whom are your loyalities, posters on this forum, the Catholic Church or “Sacred Scripture”?
It’s the bible that “christians” use to persecute gays and lesbians, so understandably it’s also the bible that is the center of attention regarding homosexuality. And it is the bible, that deserves to be studied. And interestingly enough, when it is, church teaching becomes challenged! And rightfully so!
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Eden
Guest
If the commentary in Jude 7 of the 1966 Jerusalem Bible is so earth-shattering that it will “dispell (sic) the age old myths surrounding homosexuality, scripture, and church teaching”, I would think you would have it ready for battle at a moment’s notice. Can you just give us a synopsis, please?
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Eden
Guest
Regarding Elric’s claim that the Church changed its position on abortion:
The assertion that Catholic Church teaching on abortion throughout history is confused and inconsistent is historically indefensible. The historical record shows beyond any doubt that the Church’s teaching, namely that abortion is a grave moral evil, has been clear, emphatic, and unwavering. Therefore, an historically accurate treatment of the Church’s teaching on abortion shows that the pro-abortionist’s claims against the Church are without foundation. At the same time, such a treatment shows the Church to be not only a reliable and consistent teaching authority on the subject of abortion, but also a compassionate and balanced one, fully sensitive to the rights of everyone involved—including the pregnant woman—and deeply aware of abortion’s psychological and social implications. It is with these considerations in mind that the following presentation has been prepared.
The rest is here:
catholicculture.org/library/view.cfm?recnum=3361
The assertion that Catholic Church teaching on abortion throughout history is confused and inconsistent is historically indefensible. The historical record shows beyond any doubt that the Church’s teaching, namely that abortion is a grave moral evil, has been clear, emphatic, and unwavering. Therefore, an historically accurate treatment of the Church’s teaching on abortion shows that the pro-abortionist’s claims against the Church are without foundation. At the same time, such a treatment shows the Church to be not only a reliable and consistent teaching authority on the subject of abortion, but also a compassionate and balanced one, fully sensitive to the rights of everyone involved—including the pregnant woman—and deeply aware of abortion’s psychological and social implications. It is with these considerations in mind that the following presentation has been prepared.
The rest is here:
catholicculture.org/library/view.cfm?recnum=3361
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feetxxxl
Guest
the bible doesnt have to mention something specifically to cover it in scripture(1tim)“all scripture is god breathed” it covers everything under the sun, thru its discussion of spirit. even in the old testament god canceled those things of his regulations because of the spirit of the people.
isaiah 1
5 Why should you be beaten anymore?
Why do you persist in rebellion?
Your whole head is injured,
your whole heart afflicted.
11 “The multitude of your sacrifices—
what are they to me?” says the LORD.
"I have more than enough of burnt offerings,
of rams and the fat of fattened animals;
I have no pleasure
in the blood of bulls and lambs and goats.
17 learn to do right!
Seek justice,
encourage the oppressed. [a]
Defend the cause of the fatherless,
plead the case of the widow.
AGAINST THESE THERE IS NO LAW.
gal 5:22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
that is why it is so ridiculuos to argue what is and is not of god thru form and regulation.
none of you who speak out against homosexuality dares to, condemn it thru spirit. because none of you has witnessed it thru a fellowship witness.“that which we have looked at, which we have seen with our eyes, and our hands have touched”
you withhold fellowship witness for the sake of your theology, a theology that would never hold up under the exposure of examination of spirit.
is heterosexual bonding about " since we have compatible genitals i think we should marry" no, of course not. one desires to bond because of a thousand reasons emotional, psychological, spiritual reasons, along with a sexual attraction. which a million poets and a million song writers have attempted to identify.
a sexual attraction that has to do with sight and smell. a sexual attraction along with a desire to be one with another human being.
one with another human being to walk thru life with as a life time helper… to share all the joys and travails of living.
that is what homosexuality is about.
and like i said, none of the theology of those that would condemn, would hold up to a life exposure to that reality.
like isaiah 1 and gal 5
THERE IS NO LAW AGAINST WHAT IS THE ESSENCE OF HOMOSEXUALITY.
because it embraces the fruit of the spirit in the same way heterosexuality does, and does not come against loving ones neighbor as oneself, in the same way that heterosexuality doesnt, which is the summation of all the law.
in regards to the issue of spirit. the word spirit appears 569 times in scripture. 201 times in the old and 368 times in the new(niv)
isaiah 1
5 Why should you be beaten anymore?
Why do you persist in rebellion?
Your whole head is injured,
your whole heart afflicted.
11 “The multitude of your sacrifices—
what are they to me?” says the LORD.
"I have more than enough of burnt offerings,
of rams and the fat of fattened animals;
I have no pleasure
in the blood of bulls and lambs and goats.
17 learn to do right!
Seek justice,
encourage the oppressed. [a]
Defend the cause of the fatherless,
plead the case of the widow.
AGAINST THESE THERE IS NO LAW.
gal 5:22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
that is why it is so ridiculuos to argue what is and is not of god thru form and regulation.
none of you who speak out against homosexuality dares to, condemn it thru spirit. because none of you has witnessed it thru a fellowship witness.“that which we have looked at, which we have seen with our eyes, and our hands have touched”
you withhold fellowship witness for the sake of your theology, a theology that would never hold up under the exposure of examination of spirit.
is heterosexual bonding about " since we have compatible genitals i think we should marry" no, of course not. one desires to bond because of a thousand reasons emotional, psychological, spiritual reasons, along with a sexual attraction. which a million poets and a million song writers have attempted to identify.
a sexual attraction that has to do with sight and smell. a sexual attraction along with a desire to be one with another human being.
one with another human being to walk thru life with as a life time helper… to share all the joys and travails of living.
that is what homosexuality is about.
and like i said, none of the theology of those that would condemn, would hold up to a life exposure to that reality.
like isaiah 1 and gal 5
THERE IS NO LAW AGAINST WHAT IS THE ESSENCE OF HOMOSEXUALITY.
because it embraces the fruit of the spirit in the same way heterosexuality does, and does not come against loving ones neighbor as oneself, in the same way that heterosexuality doesnt, which is the summation of all the law.
in regards to the issue of spirit. the word spirit appears 569 times in scripture. 201 times in the old and 368 times in the new(niv)
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brendankiwi
Guest
Sexual union serves two purposes unitive and procreative. Obstrucing one of these functions to serve the other is sinful. eg test tubes serving the procreative or the fruitless experience of homosexuality or contraceptive sex.
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feetxxxl
Guest
another statement about form and regulation.
you would allow a mechanical function trump, a unification of spirit …that is that sexual intimacy is an expression and affirmation of the devotion and love of the relationship.
even a dog can procreat. the people of noah’s time and of sodom did and god wipe not only them out but every living thing that was of them that had also procreated.
god wiped a number of people who procreated because of the spirit in their hearts.
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