scripture and homosexuality

[peacelight]

Homosexual activity is not of God the Father, not of God the Son and not of God the Holy Spirit.

It is of the devil.

Adam and Eve is a perfect example of the beginning of the union between man and a woman. When I was a child I see my father ( a man ) and my mother ( a woman ). And I could not see it the other way around man and man, woman and a woman. My common sense and the feeling that I have tells me that it is wrong. One need to remember that devil always on the look out try to deceive and he continues to imitate God.

 

[Nickkname]

believe what you want, but scripture has never declared homosexuality a sin.

…not from the prohibitions of lev(not all prohibitions of themselves were a sin, and other things that were condoned are now considered intolerable evils) to sodom’s condoning of the gang rape of strangers, to the shame based lust of romans( lust being the antithesis of human bonding. human bonding is done out of mutual love , respect, devotion, trust, and attraction for a shared committed life together) to the “malebed” of 1cor and 1tim(how can an animate person be transposed for an inanimate object, and how out of all the possible meanings was homosexual the one specific one designated.

jesus said we would recognize them from their fruits…fruits as depicted in fruits of the spirit in gal5.

paul said the things of the sin nature are OBVIOUS…by their very essence, it is self explanatory on how they come against the fruit of the spirit (gal5) and loving ones neighbor as oneself(the summation of all the law)(romans).

what is self evident of the essence of homosexuality that it would come against both of these?

Homosexuality is obviously evil because it is obviously unnatural. Of course, those who are for homosexuality don’t believe this, so it’s kind of pointless to preach to them. They “cover their ears and gnash their teeth”, so to speak. And they take arguments against homosexuality so personally, as if you’re attacking the person rather than trying to correct them. Oh well. The Church says homosexuality is a sin, Scriptures says it’s a sin, and reason says it’s unnatural, so I’m not going to listen to anyone who says homosexuality isn’t evil or unnatural until they give a reasonable argument for their claim. And if that brands me as being “close minded”, than so be it.

 

[wisdomseeker]

surely …romans "being reesurrected in christ "…the gospel of 1john… saved by grace thru faith …the judgement…the conclusion of revelations…has no application .to the traditions of the church and the magisterium.

Yes, Romans! Rome sweet home!

what you have showed me is that you rely on your own understanding when reading the Word. something catholics do not do.

yet, how can i argue with someone who pick the Words of Jesus and interpret that the love of a neighbour is the same as homosexual acts.

good luck to you!

:bowdown: :byzsoc:

 

[feetxxxl]

1 John 3:6
No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.

1 John 3:9
No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God.

1 John 5:18
We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the one who was born of God keeps him safe, and the evil one cannot harm him.

there are among you those who have brothers, friends, neighbors, coworkers who are gay. some of you see them every day. do you withdraw from fellowship out of regulation? because paul says we are no longer led by the old relationship to regulation as in the old covenant but are, now, instead led by the spirit.

do we follow the old regulation of not wearing mixed fabric, or not doing household chores on the sabbath. of course not, then why do we follow the one about homosexuality, or reenforce it with a new regulation of our own

if 1john is correct then those who are our friends, neighbors etc are repeated sinners, and cant be in christ. if they are not in christ then they are filled with shame, and live lives that are without the fruit of the spirit. if they are repeated sinners there is little love in their hearts and they carry a spirit of denial, deception, or deceit along with self hatred and self loathing.

like i said, in christ we are now led by the spirit. so if the above is not true, and in additon they are devout believers in christ, and praise his name…is that not further evidence that homosexuality is not a sin?

that is why i continue to ask what is the spirit of the essence of homosexuality and how does it come against loving your neighbor as yourself

Matthew 19:19
Jesus replied, " ‘Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honor your father and mother,’ and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’ "

Mark 12:31
The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no commandment greater than these."

Mark 12:33
To love him with all your heart, with all your understanding and with all your strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself is more important than all burnt offerings and sacrifices."

Romans 13:9
The commandments, “Do not commit adultery,” “Do not murder,” “Do not steal,” “Do not covet,” and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”

Galatians 5:14
The entire law is summed up in a single command: "Love your neighbor as yourself.

 

[revelations]

if 1john is correct then those who are our friends, neighbors etc are repeated sinners, and cant be in christ. if they are not in christ then they are filled with shame, and live lives that are without the fruit of the spirit. if they are repeated sinners there is little love in their hearts and they carry a spirit of denial, deception, or deceit along with self hatred and self loathing.

like i said, in christ we are now led by the spirit. so if the above is not true, and in additon they are devout believers in christ, and praise his name…is that not further evidence that homosexuality is not a sin?

There is NO MAN on this earth who lives without sin. Not you, not me, and not any of the people reading this message right now. We’re all sinners, even those who are “in christ”. In fact Jesus himself said that he did not come for the righteous, but for the sinners.

The Pope goes to confession every day, why do you think that is? My friend you are dearly mistaken, and i think you have seriously mis-read the 1 John letter.

Sin is sin is sin is sin. Sodomy (modern definition) IS in fact a sin. Get that in your head. No amount of twisting the bible with backwards logic will get you anywhere.

 

[revelations]

Oh, and “loving your neighbour” also includes caring about his life, eternal life. So, not confirming him in his sin can be considered an act of love.

Do you think we’re responding just to argue with you? No, most of us are conversing with you because we are all seriously concerned about your understanding of some things, and if we can help plant a seed that will save your Life (capital L) then so be it. We are telling you that you are incorrect because we all in fact care about you.

That’s loving your neighbour.

 

[feetxxxl]

are you saying you are in disagreemnt with 1john.

or your experience prevents you from understanding what he is saying?

 

[feetxxxl]

there are among you those who have brothers, friends, neighbors, coworkers who are gay. some of you see them every day. do you withdraw from fellowship out of regulation? because paul says we are no longer led by the old relationship to regulation as in the old covenant but are, now, instead led by the spirit.

do we follow the old regulation of not wearing mixed fabric, or not doing household chores on the sabbath. of course not, then why do we follow the one about homosexuality, or reenforce it with a new regulation of our own

if 1john is correct then those who are our friends, neighbors etc are repeated sinners, and cant be in christ. if they are not in christ then they are filled with shame, and live lives that are without the fruit of the spirit. if they are repeated sinners there is little love in their hearts and they carry a spirit of denial, deception, or deceit along with self hatred and self loathing.

like i said, in christ we are now led by the spirit. so if the above is not true, and in additon they are devout believers in christ, and praise his name…is that not further evidence that homosexuality is not a sin?

what you are failing to acknowledge is that those who are of god, because they are made aware by the spirit in their heart, simply by the contrast of spirit in their worship and the spirit in their lives.

so they either acknowledge the sin even if they are unable to stop doing it, or they are covered with a spirit of deception, delusion, or deceit.

since neither is true for believers in christ who happening to be gay it is further evidence that homosexuality is not a sin.

also saying that god is calling homosexuals to either be celibate, or suffer thru some kind of change therapy, comes against christ words of “easy yoke and light burden”. christ who is god and has been put in authority over all things, which would certainly be about any sin of homosexuality, since he became sin for us and died for all sin.

 

[revelations]

since neither is true for believers in christ who happening to be gay it is further evidence that homosexuality is not a sin.

NO IT’S NOT A SIN to have homosexual tendencies. But that does not give a permit to engage in homosexual ACTIVITY (male to male or female to female genital stimulation). Do we agree on that? Those are the same rules for heterosexuals. Being gay doesn’t give someone a license to do whatever they want sexually. That is where the sin comes in, this is what we’re talking about. And because homosexual marriage would inevitably lead to homosexual activity, it is inherently sinful.

 

[LilyM]

there are among you those who have brothers, friends, neighbors, coworkers who are gay. some of you see them every day. do you withdraw from fellowship out of regulation? because paul says we are no longer led by the old relationship to regulation as in the old covenant but are, now, instead led by the spirit.

Well, I don’t pretend that I approve of their homosexual behaviour, but I’m not obligated to give up working with them, or seeing them socially. Jesus didn’t shun sinners, he dined with them, talked to them and converted them.

do we follow the old regulation of not wearing mixed fabric, or not doing household chores on the sabbath. of course not, then why do we follow the one about homosexuality, or reenforce it with a new regulation of our own

I suppose that you believe that the ‘regulations’ against bestiality and incest don’t apply either, that they are also mere ‘regulations’? How about the ‘regulations’ against rape, regardless of whether either party is married or not?

No? Why not? Because they are not mere regulations but eternal commandments regulating sexual behaviour - just like the Big Ten and the Big Two. And God doesn’t change His mind about sexual behaviour.

Jesus has TOLD us which regulations don’t matter - he explicitly did away with dietary law by the vision to Peter, he did away with ritual ‘uncleanliness’ laws by allowing the hemmorhaging female to touch Him and by touching corpses when He brought them to life, he did away with laws specific and unique to the Jews and designed to distinguish them from other people (mixed fibres and such being those) by associating with Gentiles - Romans and Samaritans - himself. He did away with Saturday Sabbath by declaring Himself Lord of the Sabbath.

He most noticeably DIDN’T loosen the law on sexual behaviour - on the contrary He was stricter about adultery, for example, than Moses ever was.

i

f 1john is correct then those who are our friends, neighbors etc are repeated sinners, and cant be in christ. if they are not in christ then they are filled with shame, and live lives that are without the fruit of the spirit. if they are repeated sinners there is little love in their hearts and they carry a spirit of denial, deception, or deceit along with self hatred and self loathing.

Rubbish. I’ve seen plenty of heinous sinners - murderers, pedophiles, robbers -who will call themselves Christian and yet have not the slightest signs of shame, self hatred or self loathing about what they’ve done. And I’m certain they don’t find any signs of self-denial or self-deceit in their hearts either. That they lack this doesn’t make them righteous in Christ’s eyes.

How are they any different from you? Can you honestly say you’d know any better than they if you WERE in self-denial or self-deceit? It’s kinda part of the deal that if you’re deceiving yourself or denying something to yourself you DON’T know about it!

like i said, in christ we are now led by the spirit. so if the above is not true, and in additon they are devout believers in christ, and praise his name…is that not further evidence that homosexuality is not a sin?

This is a contradiction in terms. A grievous sinner by definition is not a devout sollower of Christ. And yet there are many many people out there who profess to follow Christ, and believe they do so, and yet remain in grievous sin and are not truly devout.

since neither is true for believers in christ who happening to be gay it is further evidence that homosexuality is not a sin.

There is no such thing as a true believer in Christ who ‘happens’ to be a practicing gay, any more than there is a true believer in Christ who ‘happens’ to murder, steal or what have you. It is evidence of nothing but your own self-delusion that you would say there are such.

also saying that god is calling homosexuals to either be celibate, or suffer thru some kind of change therapy, comes against christ words of “easy yoke and light burden”. christ who is god and has been put in authority over all things, which would certainly be about any sin of homosexuality, since he became sin for us and died for all sin.

He also said that there are those who make themselves eunuchs for the sake of the Kingdom. What makes you think you’re not called to be a eunuch for the sake of the kingdom?

He also said that we must take up our crosses daily and drink the cup of suffering along with him. His yoke is relatively easy, but still a yoke nonethless. You are confusing a ‘light yoke’ with unrestricted licence.

His yoke is easier because it is the yoke of doing HIS will rather than the yoke of our own sinful inclinations which you are doing at the moment.

 

[feetxxxl]

NO IT’S NOT A SIN to have homosexual tendencies. But that does not give a permit to engage in homosexual ACTIVITY (male to male or female to female genital stimulation). Do we agree on that? Those are the same rules for heterosexuals. Being gay doesn’t give someone a license to do whatever they want sexually. That is where the sin comes in, this is what we’re talking about. And because homosexual marriage would inevitably lead to homosexual activity, it is inherently sinful.

in all bonded relationships(whether homosexual or heterosexual)` sexual intimacy is an expression of the devotion of the relationship.

marriage counselors either secular or cleric consider frequency and satisfaction of sexual intimacy as an indication of the health of the bonded relationship. at the church i attend homosexual couples marry.

 

[Lilyflower]

We all by one definition or another, are fighting against the pleasures of the flesh. I think it important we do not throw stones against brothers whose human weakness is no greater than our own.

Blessings and peace

 

[sydcatholic80]

I thought I would like to weigh in on this debate.
I am an SSA male Catholic.

I will say upfront I do not disagree with the Church’s teaching on homosexual acts, nor about the raising of children by homosexual people. Children do need a mother and a father.
These two ideas are not in dispute.

However, it is not a sin to love someone. It is possible for two men or two women, to love each other just as much as a man and a woman can love each other. If this love is pure, and non-sexual, please somebody point out to me the sin, or anywhere in the Catechism, canon law, or the bible, that say two people cannot love one another.

Hugging and kissing likewise are not sinful, otherwise the church would ban any pre-marital contact completely. But straight couples are entitled to this.

What is not entitled, is if it leads to sexual acts, and I guess this is the line in the sand, and a catholic SSA will have to live with this. Straight couples who are to be married also have to live with this condition.

Now I would like to hear the opinion of people on this thread towards to SSA people, who commit to living a life of chastity and to live the way of Christ, but who love each other emotionally with an intensity that is as strong as what a straight couple experience, and these two people live together to support each other.

God did not intend for man to be alone, and being SSA doesn’t necessarily change this.

I challenge the charity and compassion of many of the people on this thread who refuse to entertain the possibility or real love between two SSA people, or that there are many of us out there who remain celibate, but desire chaste companionship in their life. And finally, SSA people do not want PITY, they want compassion and dignity, and I can say prayers to continue a holy way of life.

From the Catechism:

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.”

All I ask from other Catholics is compassion for our situation, and your prayers that we may remain holy. Please do not continue to class us all as sinful, usually more sinful than a murder, because we are not all like that.

Josh

 

[mangy_dog]

Adam and Eve is a perfect example of the beginning of the union between man and a woman. When I was a child I see my father ( a man ) and my mother ( a woman ). And I could not see it the other way around man and man, woman and a woman. My common sense and the feeling that I have tells me that it is wrong. One need to remember that devil always on the look out try to deceive and he continues to imitate God.

You are so correct.

That feeling you (everyone) have about right and wrong; good and evil; correct and incorrect - is God given.

However murky it may be in some people…it is still there. Some just choose to ignore or put it aside out of pride and lust and self-service or self-gratification.

The Warning the Miracle and the Chastisement are coming - soon!
Hopefully the hearts minds and souls will allow themselves to be touched by His Grace…before these events come to pass.

Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.

 

[wisdomseeker]

I thought I would like to weigh in on this debate.
I am an SSA male Catholic.

I will say upfront I do not disagree with the Church’s teaching on homosexual acts, nor about the raising of children by homosexual people. Children do need a mother and a father.
These two ideas are not in dispute.

However, it is not a sin to love someone. It is possible for two men or two women, to love each other just as much as a man and a woman can love each other. If this love is pure, and non-sexual, please somebody point out to me the sin, or anywhere in the Catechism, canon law, or the bible, that say two people cannot love one another.

Hugging and kissing likewise are not sinful, otherwise the church would ban any pre-marital contact completely. But straight couples are entitled to this.

What is not entitled, is if it leads to sexual acts, and I guess this is the line in the sand, and a catholic SSA will have to live with this. Straight couples who are to be married also have to live with this condition.

Now I would like to hear the opinion of people on this thread towards to SSA people, who commit to living a life of chastity and to live the way of Christ, but who love each other emotionally with an intensity that is as strong as what a straight couple experience, and these two people live together to support each other.

God did not intend for man to be alone, and being SSA doesn’t necessarily change this.

I challenge the charity and compassion of many of the people on this thread who refuse to entertain the possibility or real love between two SSA people, or that there are many of us out there who remain celibate, but desire chaste companionship in their life. And finally, SSA people do not want PITY, they want compassion and dignity, and I can say prayers to continue a holy way of life.

From the Catechism:

All I ask from other Catholics is compassion for our situation, and your prayers that we may remain holy. Please do not continue to class us all as sinful, usually more sinful than a murder, because we are not all like that.

Josh

I dont think anybody here have a problem with being compassionate to anyone.

what has been point out here by many is the action that one takes, it is either according to God’s will or not.
if it is against God’s Will than it is consider disobedience therefore becomes an offense to Our God.

we do not determine what a sin is, God does it.

I know a lady in the CC that left her partner few years ago, she made a vow and became a secular franciscan. she tells me how happy she is now. I give glory and honor to our God for her.

only you and God knows what really is going on your life.
i pray that Our Mercifull God lead you according to His will.

we are called to be the light into the world. i dont condenm you. you have to decide what is pleasing to God.

there are many things i would love to do. but i refrain myself from it. rather taking the sufferings than do what may offend Our Lord.
we are already too sinfull in nature, can you imagine if we follow our desires? yet i dont quite know your situation.

i leave at that for now.

:bowdown: :byzsoc:

 

[Rocky]

I thought I would like to weigh in on this debate.
I am an SSA male Catholic.

I will say upfront I do not disagree with the Church’s teaching on homosexual acts, nor about the raising of children by homosexual people. Children do need a mother and a father.
These two ideas are not in dispute.

However, it is not a sin to love someone. It is possible for two men or two women, to love each other just as much as a man and a woman can love each other. If this love is pure, and non-sexual, please somebody point out to me the sin, or anywhere in the Catechism, canon law, or the bible, that say two people cannot love one another.

Hugging and kissing likewise are not sinful, otherwise the church would ban any pre-marital contact completely. But straight couples are entitled to this.

What is not entitled, is if it leads to sexual acts, and I guess this is the line in the sand, and a catholic SSA will have to live with this. Straight couples who are to be married also have to live with this condition.

Now I would like to hear the opinion of people on this thread towards to SSA people, who commit to living a life of chastity and to live the way of Christ, but who love each other emotionally with an intensity that is as strong as what a straight couple experience, and these two people live together to support each other.

God did not intend for man to be alone, and being SSA doesn’t necessarily change this.

I challenge the charity and compassion of many of the people on this thread who refuse to entertain the possibility or real love between two SSA people, or that there are many of us out there who remain celibate, but desire chaste companionship in their life. And finally, SSA people do not want PITY, they want compassion and dignity, and I can say prayers to continue a holy way of life.

From the Catechism:

All I ask from other Catholics is compassion for our situation, and your prayers that we may remain holy. Please do not continue to class us all as sinful, usually more sinful than a murder, because we are not all like that.

Josh

To have SSA is not sinful in itself, and to love another person of the same sex is most often not sinful. It is how we express our love that determines whether we sin or not.

You have my prayers that you will remain faithfully chaste in all your relationships, and that your love for Jesus will grow so that His love for you will supply all your needs.

 

[truagape]

Sodomy (modern definition) IS in fact a sin. Get that in your head. No amount of twisting the bible with backwards logic will get you anywhere.

Modern definition? What do you mean?

 

[feetxxxl]

no one disagrees that the wages of sin are death, and that christ died for our sins.

the question is …is a particular thing a sin…what is our test to determine this?

1 thess 5:21 test everything keep the good.

my understanding is that one tests it thru the spirit, because in this new covenant we are led and and serve of the spirit.

and christ says we will know them by their fruits.

others understanding is that are led by the traditions of the church they belong. that have told them that particular verses in scripture say it is a sin. however the words of those verses do not specifically say it is a sin, and no one can explain how the words say it is a sin.

this includes the term “malebed” in 1tim and 1cor and that in lev not all prohibitions of themselves are sins. my understanding is that the word in lev for abomination was the same word used in other verses that dealt with ritual cleansing. but that is legality. as i said before the testing is thru the spirit.

part of a spirit test is seeing if the essence of homosexuality comes against the commandment of loving ones neighbor as oneself, which scripture says is the summation of all the law.

in all tests of the spirit about homosexualiy. none have shown it to be a sin.

 

[Lilyflower]

All humanity is weak. We all have personal sin. Evil attacks us all in different ways that evil can, in order to offend Almighty God and encourage us to do likewise.

We should not condone homosexuality neither should we condemn or errant brothers and sisters for we are all sinners. I more than most. But we must never give evil its chance by trying to excuse our weak sinful nature as ‘natural’. It is only natural in that nature is fallen.

Blessings and peace

 

[hosemonkey]

All humanity is weak. We all have personal sin. Evil attacks us all in different ways that evil can, in order to offend Almighty God and encourage us to do likewise.

We should not condone homosexuality neither should we condemn or errant brothers and sisters for we are all sinners. I more than most. But we must never give evil its chance by trying to excuse our weak sinful nature as ‘natural’. It is only natural in that nature is fallen.

Blessings and peace

It is quite obvious to me that the OP is trying to get a “bye” from Scripture on his obvious homosexuality (or desire not to be held accountable for his “lifestyle.” Homosexuality in and of itself is not sinful. but homosexual genital activity IS. Homosexuality IS objectively NOT normal. Heterosexual activity IS normal. Gay marriage is NOT normal and is an oxymoron. Heterosexual marriage IS normal and IS intended to be open to life. No matter how you flip it, homosexual sex is abnormal and disgusting. Let me put it this way, in 20 years in the Navy, and in 20 years in the Fire Department, I had friends that I loved more than brothers, men who saved my very life and I theirs. BUT… we certainly had no desire to have sex with one another. I know what the Bible says about homosexuals and it offends me that somebody is going to try to make Scripture say what it does not.