Seceeding from the Union

[GEddie]

Actually it only applied to Confederate states *and *only to territory within those states that were not Union occupied. You can read the exceptions for yourself here. You will notice parishes of LA and counties of VA exempted. The reason for this was this territory was at the time under Union control. So Lincoln freed slaves only where he had no power. Where he did have power he maintained it. He didn’t even free all slaves in ‘rebel’ states. At best he was trying to start a slave rebellion to help him win the war.

Or more likely, to keep Britain and France out of it. There was a chance that one or both nations would ally with the CSA. The EP, by making the war expressly about slavery, made such a course of action indefensible.

ICXC NIKA

 

[Brendan]

South Carolina I might grant you, but Michigan? Did you look at the results from Michigan? Obama beat Romney 54.3% to 44.8%. Why on earth would people who voted that way want to secede?

rossum

Speaking as a Michigander, I would not vote to secede. I would, however, vote to kick CA and MA out of the Union

 

[Pat_Albertson]

South Carolina I might grant you, but Michigan? Did you look at the results from Michigan? Obama beat Romney 54.3% to 44.8%. Why on earth would people who voted that way want to secede?

rossum

Mar044;10005571:

Ya, i knew that from liveleak.com, only a few thousand want this, a decimal point of the population.

never happen

I think you’re probably correct.

I don’t think it will happen either, but when they reach the magic 25,000 mark, the President will have to respond in some way.

Some have shot up by thousands in just one day, and they have 30 days to make it to 25,000.

I don’t think it would or will. This ‘movement’, for want of a better term, is just about getting a reaction from the White House. It just shows a certain level of unhappiness.

Anybody can write a petition about anything and if they can push it themselves to the 150 mark, after that, if people like it, it will shoot up. If they reach the 25,000 mark, the White House is supposed to comment . . . supposed to (but they might not), that is . . .

An example of how anybody can write a petition about anything is that the petition for New York was written by somebody in North Dakota. The people who are pushing New York are scattered from all over the country, not just New York.

Many people, including a few organizations that purportedly style themselves as news organizations (meaning they should know better) have mistakenly concluded that these petitions can in and of themselves lead to secession. That is wrong. None of this stuff has the force of law.

On another note:

Seeker1961;10007975:

Did you look at the other petitions and the amount of signatures they have? Labeling genetically modified food, outlawing insults to prophets of major religions, not allowing FDA regulations on cigars…interesting stuff.

Yes I did. I don’t want to get too off topic from this thread though, so I didn’t say anything.

Please forgive me fellow posters if I do veer off topic a bit here, but if you get how this is done (somebody comes up with a petition and somehow gathers the first 150 signatures or so, by asking for help on Craig’s list, maybe Tea Party sites (if the issue is more of ‘right’ sort of issue), or Democratic Underground (if the issue is more of a ‘left’ issue) or someplace and once the magic 150 mark is passed the petition jumps to the most recent petitions page whereupon the numbers mount up much more rapidly if people are attracted to it), it occurs to me that some of the major frustrations of people here regarding the HHS mandate etc. might be more constructively dealt with than just posting on a forum and praying. I mean, you could try to craft a petition, get people to sign from here or other places, and eventually get to the magic 25,000 mark whereupon you might be entitled to a response of some sort from the administration.

I’m not saying that the sort of prayers suggested elsewhere with regard to the HHS mandate won’t do any good – I think they will. But you might be able to do a little bit of prayer and action too. I mean, instead of just praying for ‘the White House’ to come around, you might pray for you and your fellow posters to be inspired by the Holy Spirit with regard to the verbage you come up with on a petition that might be crafted by people right here on CAF.

Anyway, I think you can see where I’m going with this – let’s have CAF craft a petition that addresses the things you most dislike about the HHS mandate.

Just my :twocents:.

OK, back on topic now.

 

[Pat_Albertson]

Texas will soon cross the 25,000 threshold, which means that at some point in the near future, the White House will have to (or at least is supposed to) respond:
we petition the obama administration to: Peacefully grant the State of Texas to withdraw from the United States of America and create its own NEW government.

Postscript: At my time, 12:19 PST, Texas currently has 24,478 with only 522 more needed to cross the 25,000 threshold. I’d say they’ll reach it in less than a few hours. They have until something like December 9th to reach it, but they’ll be done a lot sooner.

Postpostscript: only 106 needed to reach it, and it’s 12:22. They’ll reach it in a minute or two.

 

[Seeker1961]

Speaking as a Michigander, I would not vote to secede. I would, however, vote to kick CA and MA out of the Union

I’ll keep CA. You can kick out MA and TX though-no more Red Sox or Dallas Cowboys!

 

[Pat_Albertson]

OK then, Texas needs no more signatures, although I’m sure that they will continue to come in. As of 12:30 pm PST, it has 25,285 signatures. The next thing is that the White House is supposed to respond. I don’t know when or if it will though . . .

 

[TheRealJuliane]

It would never happen, the south would never leave the union , they would be incaple of surviving financially. That is to crazy to even have a discussion about.

Who said anything about the South??

I’ve heard a lot of talk about the “flyover country” seceeding from the coasts. We’ve got the resources, the coasts can have their elites and their Occupy anarchists and their love of Europe. We’d have the agriculture, mostly.

By the way, if “the South” includes OK and TX, we do have the means of survival, it’s NY and the East Coast that couldn’t survive on its own. IOW crude oil.

 

[Pat_Albertson]

I think the goal of those pushing this is to have all 50 (or 51) states secede. There are more ‘states’ with numbers under 150 that are being pushed. Once they hit that magic 150 mark, they seem to take on a life of their own.

Postscript: The petition to let Texas secede from the U.S. to be reviewed by the White House

 

[Pat_Albertson]

I guess Oklahoma is the latest one. I know at the petition site it gives Arizona, but Arizona has two secession petitions. Here’s Oklahoma:
we petition the obama administration to: Peacefully grant the State of Oklahoma to withdraw from the United States of America and create its own NEW government.So that makes 21 ‘secessionist states’.

 

[ThatOrthodoxGuy]

Texas has 31,376 signatures on their petition. Wow I think people are upset with this nation

 

[Mar044]

its just a petition, you need a senator to sign off on something goes to the house, senate, so on, a person cans sign what they want, doesn’t mean anything, texas government and its appointed reps have to agree…and they wont, this is nothing but drama fair

 

[Pat_Albertson]

Texas has 31,376 signatures on their petition. Wow I think people are upset with this nation

Agreed. I think these (post #99, post #101, & post #138) are probably the three best posts in the thread. I found them by doing a search for the word contempt.

its just a petition, you need a senator to sign off on something goes to the house, senate, so on, a person cans sign what they want, doesn’t mean anything, texas government and its appointed reps have to agree…and they wont, this is nothing but drama fair

This is also true. Real secession won’t happen for a long time, if ever.

 

[IronHammer]

I guess this talk comes because of the election - its funny people who claim to believe so much in democracy are ready toss it aside when the election doesn’t go they way they want.The people have spoken.Some times it doesn’t go the way you want - you wait for the next election and change can come.You can protest against whats wrong and live to your values but you can’t spit in the face of the system simply because your party didn’t win and if you do you don’t believe in democracy.It not like the Dem will be there for ever.Thats the great thing about democracy there is always an opportunity for change.

So for all those Donald Trumpers out there grow up.

Have faith that God is in control.

Sorry, I have to take up my “pen” on this one.

Ordinarily, I would agree with you that the democratic process is specifically designed to self-correct from left to right. But there has been a terrible shift in the machinery, evidenced by an increasingly left-leaning majority, headed by a liberal POTUS who now has the power to shift things even farther left by appointing several shiny, new liberal justices. The only thing standing in his way is the House of Representatives, which could fall to the left in the midterm elections. Even if the House stood as is, a predominantly liberal SCOTUS can effect sweeping changes.

God is in control but he also helps those who help themselves

Secession could be possible but only if a large block of contiguous states took action together and only upon approval by the majority citizens of those states. Only then, might it be possible to secede without bloodshed…maybe. But Big Brother would be awfully upset at the loss of their millions of cash cows (ahem, tax payers)

 

[oldcelt]

OK then, Texas needs no more signatures, although I’m sure that they will continue to come in. As of 12:30 pm PST, it has 25,285 signatures. The next thing is that the White House is supposed to respond. I don’t know when or if it will though . . .

Probably won’t respond…why lend any credibility to something like this?

John

 

[GEddie]

Probably won’t respond…why lend any credibility to something like this?

John

Sure, respond. By wagging a finger at them and suggesting they ask their history professor for a refund.

 

[ThatOrthodoxGuy]

The White house will have to respond, right?

 

[Pat_Albertson]

Probably won’t respond…why lend any credibility to something like this?

John

How does reporting on something “lend it any credibility”?

If I was going to push this I would have been urging people to sign the ones under 150 and reporting which ones they were so they could go do so. Simply reporting on something that is going to rapidly increase whether or not anybody here does anything about it or not is hardly lending it credibility.

Those that are moving up fast were moving up fast long before I ever posted about it.

 

[GEddie]

The White house will have to respond, right?

Don’t know. But they are not required to take it seriously.

 

[Pat_Albertson]

The White house will have to respond, right?

No. Sometimes they say they can’t say anything, although this time around I don’t think that will fly. I could be wrong though.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

What implications has been discussed? A sovereignty without a military. No federal assistance in the face of a disaster. Adverse immigration laws. An immediate loss of employment by all federal employees.