Second Coming Errors of Protestantism.

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I believe what the Bible teaches. Where does the Catholic church differ with Revelation?
 
Rightlydivide said:
I believe what the Bible teaches. Where does the Catholic church differ with Revelation?
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It doesn’t differ. We believe that there is the resurrection of the dead, final judgement, and everlasting kingdom of God. Just as the Bible say it. You also have to take into account that Book of Revelation contains literal and symbolic meaning.
 
Mannyfit75 said:
It doesn’t differ. We believe that there is the resurrection of the dead, final judgement, and everlasting kingdom of God. Just as the Bible say it. You also have to take into account that Book of Revelation contains literal and symbolic meaning.
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What does the Catholic church believe about the 1000 years?
 
What the Catholic Encyclopedia says:
Millenarian ideas are found by most commentators in the Epistle of St. Barnabas, in the passage treating of the Jewish sabbath; for the resting of God on the seventh day after the creation is explained in the following manner. After the Son of God has come and put an end to the era of the wicked and judged them, and after the sun, the moon, and the stars have been changed, then He will rest in glory on the seventh day. The author had premised, if it is said that God created all things in six days, this means that God will complete all things in six millenniums, for one day represents one thousand years. It is certain that the writer advocates the tenet of a re-formation of the world through the second advent of Christ, but it is not clear from the indications whether the author of the letter was a millenarian in the strict sense of the word. St. Irenæus of Lyons, a native of Asia Minor, influenced by the companions of St. Polycarp, adopted millenarian ideas, discussing and defending them in his works against the Gnostics (Adv. Haereses, V, 32). He developed this doctrine mainly in opposition to the Gnostics, who rejected all hopes of the Christians in a happy future life, and discerned in the glorious kingdom of Christ on earth principally the prelude to the final, spiritual kingdom of God, the realm of eternal bliss. St. Justin of Rome, the martyr, opposes to the Jews in his Dialogue with Tryphon (ch. 80-1) the tenet of a millennium and asserts that he and the Christians whose belief is correct in every point know that there will be a resurrection of the body and that the newly built and enlarged Jerusalem will last for the space of a thousand years, but he adds that there are many who, though adhering to the pure and pious teachings of Christ, do not believe in it. A witness for the continued belief in millenarianism in the province of Asia is St. Melito, Bishop of Sardes in the second century. He develops the same train of thought as did St. Irenæus.
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Rightlydivide said:
What does the Catholic church believe about the 1000 years?
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You are referring to the 1,000 yrs reign with Christ and the saints.

Let us took at the passage:
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
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The saints are martyrs. These are Christians who died in the first Century since the Book of Revelation was written around 80-90 AD. The beast is pagan Rome. The saints were rewarded heaven because they died for their faith in Christ. So they live with him now in heaven. 1,000 has many symbolic meanings. Peter makes it clear that 1,000 yrs for God is like a day. So you can’t take it literally. Do you suppose Jesus’ reign for 1,000 yrs will end? I don’t think so. The Gospel made it clear that Jesus’ kingdom is for all eternity.

This is not the official teaching of the Church, this is my interpretation. I also like to add that when Satan is bounded for 1,000 yrs ended, Satan was let loose. We are living out now. Just look at the secular world now where the Truth is a Lie and the Lie is the Truth. You know today, the world is becoming to Anti-God.
 
Mannyfit75 said:
You are referring to the 1,000 yrs reign with Christ and the saints.

No. I am also referring to this:

Rev 20:2-3
He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; 3 and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.
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jmcrae said:
So, back those ideas with Scripture, instead of changing the subject. The Last Judgement and the conversion of Israel have nothing to do with either one.

I don’t know of any Scripture that states that Christ will return more than once more, for the Last Judgement. There is no “third coming” indicated in the Bible anywhere.
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Um, actually there are those who teach on this forum that Christ came back to destroy Jerusalem in 70 AD. This would mean they would believe there are 3 comings of Christ.

I believe there are 2 comings of Christ. One as the Lamb, and one as a Lion. Each time he came and will come to Israel.
 
Mannyfit75 said:
1,000 has many symbolic meanings. Peter makes it clear that 1,000 yrs for God is like a day. So you can’t take it literally. Do you suppose Jesus’ reign for 1,000 yrs will end? I don’t think so. The Gospel made it clear that Jesus’ kingdom is for all eternity.

You know today, the world is becoming to Anti-God.
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In light of prophecies like Zechariah14, you have to take it literally. It speaks of the nations coming up to Jerusalem to celebrate the feast of Tabernacles and worship the King. Tabernacles is the 7th Jewish feast. The last day of the week was the Sabbath. This 1000 year reign will be the sabbath rest for the whole world, with satan bound and chained and Jesus ruling from Jerusalem. Zecariah 14 speaks of years and some punishment for those in their natural bodies that will refuse to go to Jerusalem yearly.

Revelation makes it clear the New Jerusalem will have no day or night, and God will be the light, and most importantly, no more sin and rebellion.

Jesus’ reign will never end. Its the old Heaven and Earth that will end.
 
Hi

I today sent a post on the thread forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=3031399#post3031399 which I think has a relevance here also .

(Edited)

Re: Roman Catholic end times
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gamera
Hi, Paul 1978. I’m a Paul too, but from 1965.
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I think the answer you might be looking for is, the Catholic Church has never issued any detailed statement depicting a schedule of events precipitating Christ’s Second Coming.
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Hi

I respect your religion.

I think the Catholic Church had better not to speculate a schedule of events precipitating Christ’s Second Coming.

The JWs did do it and they fixed a specific year for Christ’s Second Coming but later they had to amend it.

The reason in my opinion is that it was never intended to happen literally or physically. Jesus himself provided a key to solve this riddle or mystery in the NTBible which has mostly not been understood well by many.

Accordingly Jesus’ Second Coming has already taken place in the shape of the PromisedMessiah 1835-1908, and hence in my opinion none would come later.

No compulsion

Thanks
 
I think one of the problems here is that there are a variety 2nd coming teachings.

My own problem is that you never really know from one n-C to the next what they believe and as is the case with many teachings among n-Cs it can vary pretty widely from person to person.

Dispensationalists tend to want to map the whole thing out in detail and I have never been one to accept their teachings because I think they draw conclusions where there are none in the Word of God.

“The rapture”…is a false modern teaching that a great many n-Cs treat like the source and summit of the gospel. I believe, as do most faithful Catholics, that it is a misinterpretation of the scriptures.

Millennialism is one of those things that is an interpretation of the scriptures and not specifically what the scriptures say.

Christian Zionism is another modern pop theology. I have no problem believing that Israel would be reborn and that we see that today. The problem comes along when people try to tell me that this is the final fulfillment of the prophecies leading to the soon return of Christ, when I can see that there are many cases where prophecies have had multiple fulfillments. In the end I think one is wiser to follow the Blessed Virgin’s example and keeping them and pondering them in our hearts. (Luke 2:19 & 51)

Another aspect of that that bugs me is that a great many n-Cs seem to think that faithful Christians are supposed to be some sort of Israeli patriots. Although I admire the Israelis for their perseverance and commitment to their own national security and freedom, I don’t think that that is a litmus test of my faith (or of my patriotism for my own country as some people I have met seem to.)

I take the attitude that Our Lord expresses when He said, “Blessed is that servant, whom when his lord shall come he shall find so doing.” (Matthew 24:46, Luke 12:37, 38 & 43) Tie that in with Matthew 25:31-46 and I think you will find the best attitude toward the 2nd coming. 🤷
 
Church_Militant said:
I think one of the problems here is that there are a variety 2nd coming teachings.

My own problem is that you never really know from one n-C to the next what they believe and as is the case with many teachings among n-Cs it can vary pretty widely from person to person.

Dispensationalists tend to want to map the whole thing out in detail and I have never been one to accept their teachings because I think they draw conclusions where there are none in the Word of God.

“The rapture”…is a false modern teaching that a great many n-Cs treat like the source and summit of the gospel. I believe, as do most faithful Catholics, that it is a misinterpretation of the scriptures.

Millennialism is one of those things that is an interpretation of the scriptures and not specifically what the scriptures say.

Christian Zionism is another modern pop theology. I have no problem believing that Israel would be reborn and that we see that today. The problem comes along when people try to tell me that this is the final fulfillment of the prophecies leading to the soon return of Christ, when I can see that there are many cases where prophecies have had multiple fulfillments. In the end I think one is wiser to follow the Blessed Virgin’s example and keeping them and pondering them in our hearts. (Luke 2:19 & 51)

Another aspect of that that bugs me is that a great many n-Cs seem to think that faithful Christians are supposed to be some sort of Israeli patriots. Although I admire the Israelis for their perseverance and commitment to their own national security and freedom, I don’t think that that is a litmus test of my faith (or of my patriotism for my own country as some people I have met seem to.)

:

If you can put your broad paint brush down for a minute…

#1.Look at the goofy, numerous interpretations of end-time events from catholic posters just on this board. You can say the Vatican doesn’t do this, which is true, but the flock likes to. Apologists like Sungenis and Salza utterly destroy any prophetic signifigance that the Israel today is not prophetic. So now the problem is, Israel never really seems to be a focal point for Messiah coming back in these interpretations. Everything else is applied, like our lady apparitions of all sorts to even a pope on a flying horse(yes I read that here somewhere).

#2. The rapture is nothing more than the church’s blessed hope that at any moment that Our Lord and Savior will rise us up to meet him. This is the hope for both the dead and living in Christ. This event is placed before his second coming to Israel because there will be signs and events placed before his coming back to Israel, the rapture has to have nothing happen for it to take place. Again, this event is tied into reading that Israel and the Messiah coming back for it can be backed by scripture. The best debunking of this belief are accusations of Christians wanting to “escape” judgement and suffering(Is every Christian in the grave there because they were martyred?). Then there are slams against the people of Israel because they are not a like the Israel of the good 'ol days in the bible. When scripture clearly speaks of God bringing them out of all nations in unbelief.

#3.Which brings me to your saying Christian Zionism is modern pop theology. Well, the event started happening 60 years ago, so why the fuss? What visual proof that to the whole world that God really exists and the bible is his word. And if you can believe it, there are some Christians that make money off of teaching that Israel is of no prophetic importance! Thats just what the nations want to hear.

#4.As far as being an Israeli patriot, I am. But only for them all to turn from their ways and call on the name of the Lord. God says Israel will never stop being a nation from his sight. And if they all turn from their ways and from the nations ways, the time of refreshing will come for them and the whole earth. This is taught so many time in the scriptures. St. Peter preached this in Acts 3. St. Paul in Romans showed his passion for the national repentance of Israel to turn to the Messiah Jesus when he said he wish he could be accursed for his bretherns sake.
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Rightlydivide said:
You have not really made a case why this is not a literal thousand years.
The Bible says he is released after a thousand years, not me.
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Oh yes I have. St. Peter said that a thousand years for God is like one day. One day is like a thousand years. You don’t expect for Jesus Christ reign to be limited to 1,000 yrs don’t you?
 
Church_Militant said:
I take the attitude that Our Lord expresses when He said, “Blessed is that servant, whom when his lord shall come he shall find so doing.” (Matthew 24:46, Luke 12:37, 38 & 43) Tie that in with Matthew 25:31-46 and I think you will find the best attitude toward the 2nd coming. 🤷
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Now Israel is as wicked as any nation out there, but the promises of restoration to that nation is backed up by the bible you own. The thing I worry about what the Vatican is doing is working with other nations for a 2-state solution. People can slam Haggee or any other Christian for politcally getting involved for the defense of Israel, but I see the working with other nations to get Israel to do what is right by the worlds standards a dangerous game to play. They need to turn back to their God and his ways.

Jesus and his Apostles never squabbled with the authorites over taxes, holy sights and then worked other national authorites to work for “peace” by giving up land(which is totally spelled out in scripture that Israel NOT do!) and so they can now be a human turkey shoot for their enemies. Neither should his servants be doing so today.

By the way, tie Matthew 25 with Joel 3. The church should most definately not be working with this world when it comes to dealing with Israel.
 
Mannyfit75 said:
Oh yes I have. St. Peter said that a thousand years for God is like one day. One day is like a thousand years. You don’t expect for Jesus Christ reign to be limited to 1,000 yrs don’t you?
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Sorry Manny, I havn’t seen it yet either.

This earth is limited to his reign, not Jesus’ reign itself, which is eternal.
 
Lev23 said:
If you can put your broad paint brush down for a minute…
#1.Look at the goofy, numerous interpretations of end-time events from catholic posters just on this board. You can say the Vatican doesn’t do this, which is true, but the flock likes to. Apologists like Sungenis and Salza utterly destroy any prophetic signifigance that the Israel today is not prophetic. So now the problem is, Israel never really seems to be a focal point for Messiah coming back in these interpretations. Everything else is applied, like our lady apparitions of all sorts to even a pope on a flying horse(yes I read that here somewhere).
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Lev23 said:
Sorry Manny, I havn’t seen it yet either.

This earth is limited to his reign, not Jesus’ reign itself, which is eternal.
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Well, that isn’t said in Scripture either? Is that your interpretation?
 
Mannyfit75 said:
Lev23;3031684:
If you can put your broad paint brush down for a minute…

Goofy? I think the Rapture of Christian believers escaping the Great Tribulation is goofy. For one that is not taught in Scripture. Besides, Jesus said that we should take up our crosses and willing to die a martyr’s death for our faith. Would Christians be cowards to take up their cross? If they truly love Jesus they would be willing to die for their faith.

The Rapture theory and I do call it a theory is a John Darby dispensationalist view about End Times Prophecy. There is no so called Great Escape during the Great Tribulation. Before the Second Coming, there will be Great Tribulations which millions of Christians will be martyred for their faith.

.
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If you want to call the Lord rising his Church up to meet him at any moment “the great escape”, well then do so.

Like I said, scripture is clear there will be events and signs to his second coming to Israel. So by what you are saying, any bible reading Christian can take that chance of living the way they want, and then when things on this earth get bad, including the revealing of the antichrist, they can see these things, start “acting good” and then will be the time to pick up their cross.

The rapture believer picks up the cross now, puts the hand to the plow and doesn’t look back, however you want to say it. His calling us up to meet him, both the dead and living, can happen at any moment.
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