Second Coming Errors of Protestantism.

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Well, that isn’t said in Scripture either? Is that your interpretation?
Isnt this earth going to be burned away for a new one?

**2Peter 3:10-13-
But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything in it will be burned up.

Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. ]That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, the home of righteousness.**
 
If you want to call the Lord rising his Church up to meet him at any moment “the great escape”, well then do so.
From what I know of Scripture and Church teaching that at Judgment Day after Jesus separate the righteous and the evil doers. The righteous will be taken up or rapture to heaven and received their reward. The damned will be cast into everlasting fire. Satan will be in hell forever and his demons, and the World will be ruled by Jesus Christ, and we worship God for all eternity.

That’s the summary of End Times view of Catholicism. In an added note before this Final Judgement, there will be a Great Tribulation which millions of Christians will be killed for their faith. The Anti-Christ will deceived many and some of the faithful will fall away.
Like I said, scripture is clear there will be events and signs to his second coming to Israel. So by what you are saying, any bible reading Christian can take that chance of living the way they want, and then when things on this earth get bad, including the revealing of the antichrist, they can see these things, start “acting good” and then will be the time to pick up their cross.
Israel return as a nation could be a sign, but it not a major role. It is clear that Jesus will judge all nations. His first advent (First Coming) was to usher in his Kingdom on Earth by establishing a Church. Jesus did in fact told Peter, “You are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My Church. I will give you the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven.” So we see Jesus giving Peter the kingdom of heaven, which is the Church, the New Jerusalem, Israel.
The rapture believer picks up the cross now, puts the hand to the plow and doesn’t look back, however you want to say it. His calling us up to meet him, both the dead and living, can happen at any moment.
So do you believe in this common sign “If case of rapture, this car will be unoccupied?” A yes or no answer would be good enough.
 
Isnt this earth going to be burned away for a new one?

**2Peter 3:10-13-
But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything in it will be burned up. **

That’s on the last day when we are judge.
Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. ]That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, the home of righteousness.
We should always prepare for his second Coming. We do not know the hour. So we must prepare. Remember, the Book of Revelation, Jesus said. “I will make all things a new.”
 
So do you believe in this common sign “If case of rapture, this car will be unoccupied?” A yes or no answer would be good enough.
Lol, sorry, I don’t wear my faith on a bumper sticker.

It is a good conversation starter though.
😉
 
Lol, sorry, I don’t wear my faith on a bumper sticker.

It is a good conversation starter though.
😉
So you don’t believe in this type of Rapture? Do you believe that in the End, the Final Judgement, God will separate the righteous and the evil doers, and will bring those who are obedient to his precepts will be taken into heaven, and those on his left will be cast into every lasting fire?
 
So you don’t believe in this type of Rapture? Do you believe that in the End, the Final Judgement, God will separate the righteous and the evil doers, and will bring those who are obedient to his precepts will be taken into heaven, and those on his left will be cast into every lasting fire?
Are you referring to what will happen after a raptured person is gone, like the Left Behind books speculate on? Is this what you mean by type?
 
Oh yes I have. St. Peter said that a thousand years for God is like one day. One day is like a thousand years. You don’t expect for Jesus Christ reign to be limited to 1,000 yrs don’t you?
That is not what Revelation is saying. You are not addressing the text.
And they lived and reigned with Christ for [fn1] a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.
Satanic Rebellion Crushed
(cf. Ezek. 38; 39)
7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. 9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. 10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where [fn2] the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
The Great White Throne Judgment
11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before [fn3] God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second [fn4] death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.
After this occurs, his reign is eternal. Absolutely NO one is saying his reign is ONLY 1000 years.
21Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. 2 Then I, [fn1] John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God. 4 And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.”
 
I am trying to discuss Revelation and I am being ignored to discuss issues outside of scripture.
 
Are you referring to what will happen after a raptured person is gone, like the Left Behind books speculate on? Is this what you mean by type?
In the Catholic prespective, the Rapture is the final judgement when we will be judged already and received our just reward, and go to heaven to reign with Jesus Christ. You might call this the Rapture. To us Catholics, the rapture itself is one time event. It takes place when the Son of God separate the sheep and the goat, and give them their just rewards. Those who do evil will go to hell, and those who do go and remain righteous in the eyes of God will go up to heaven, assumed, or raptured as it were.

We Catholics don’t believe the concept of the Rapture as describe in the Left Behind Series. We adhere to the belief adhere to the Scripture. The Book of Revelation confirms this as well as Matthew 25:31-45.
 
I am trying to discuss Revelation and I am being ignored to discuss issues outside of scripture.
If you were as charitable and patient like Lev, I would give you an answer instead of resorting to attacks against our belief concerning the Second Coming.
 
RD,

I’ll give you a thorough interpretation of the passages which you refer to. First let us begin with passages which you discussed.

Rev 20:1-5
1 And I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit, and a great chain in his hand. 2 And he laid hold on the dragon the old serpent, which is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. 3 And he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should no more seduce the nations, till the thousand years be finished. And after that, he must be loosed a little time. 4 And I saw seats; and they sat upon them; and judgment was given unto them; and the souls of them that were beheaded for the testimony of Jesus, and for the word of God, and who had not adored the beast nor his image, nor received his character on their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 The rest of the dead lived not, till the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Commentary from the DR:

“Bound him”… The power of Satan has been very much limited by the passion of Christ: for a thousand years; that is, for the whole time of the New Testament; but especially from the time of the destruction of Babylon or pagan Rome, till the new efforts of Gog and Magog against the church, towards the end of the world. During which time the souls of the martyrs and saints live and reign with Christ in heaven, in the first resurrection, which is that of the soul to the life of glory; as the second resurrection will be that of the body, at the day of the general judgment.
 
RD,

I’ll give you a thorough interpretation of the passages which you refer to. First let us begin with passages which you discussed.

Rev 20:1-5

Commentary from the DR:

“Bound him”… The power of Satan has been very much limited by the passion of Christ: for a thousand years; that is, for the whole time of the New Testament; but especially from the time of the destruction of Babylon or pagan Rome, till the new efforts of Gog and Magog against the church, towards the end of the world. During which time the souls of the martyrs and saints live and reign with Christ in heaven, in the first resurrection, which is that of the soul to the life of glory; as the second resurrection will be that of the body, at the day of the general judgment.
So the thousand years is “the whole time of the NT” from Rome to the end of the world? Satan is bound? Really means that it is limited? How is it limited? How is that limitation observably different?
According to your interpretation Satan is not deceiving?
 
So the thousand years is “the whole time of the NT” from Rome to the end of the world?
It would be and you have to understanding the numbering system in Scripture. It can be taken in the following:

The literal sense is the meaning conveyed by the words of Scripture and discovered by exegesis, following the rules of sound interpretation: "All other senses of Sacred Scripture are based on the literal.

The spiritual sense. Thanks to the unity of God’s plan, not only the text of Scripture but also the realities and events about which it speaks can be signs.

The allegorical sense. We can acquire a more profound understanding of events by recognizing their significance in Christ; thus the crossing of the Red Sea is a sign or type of Christ’s victory and also of Christian Baptism.

The moral sense. The events reported in Scripture ought to lead us to act justly. As St. Paul says, they were written “for our instruction”.

The anagogical sense (Greek: anagoge, “leading”). We can view realities and events in terms of their eternal significance, leading us toward our true homeland: thus the Church on earth is a sign of the heavenly Jerusalem.

In the case for this particular passage, it can be interpreted in an anagogical sense and perhaps even allegorical sense, and to answer your question yes.
Satan is bound? Really means that it is limited? How is it limited? How is that limitation observably different?
Yes he is bound. Well for one the passion of Christ destroyed sin and thus destroying Satan’s hold on us by our sins.
According to your interpretation Satan is not deceiving?
I did not say that. I think you misinterpret that. Satan is deceiving. He is in fact a murderer and a liar from the very beginning.

Here is another footnote on the interpretation of Revelation 22:6-10.
10 “For the time is at hand”… That is, when compared to eternity, all time and temporal things vanish, and are but of short duration. As to the time when the chief predictions should come to pass, we have no certainty, as appears by the different opinions, both of the ancient fathers and late interpreters. Many think that most things set down from the 4 th chapter to the end, will not be fulfilled till a little time before the end of the world. Others are of opinion, that a great part of them, and particularly the fall of the wicked Babylon, happened at the destruction of paganism, by the destruction of heathen Rome, and its persecuting heathen emperors. Of these interpretations, see Aleazar, in his long commentary; see the learned Bossnet, bishop of Meaux, in his treatise on this Book; and P. Alleman, in his notes on the same Apocalypse, tom. 12, who in his Preface says, that this, in a great measure, may be now looked upon as the opinion followed by the learned men. In fine, others think that St. John’s design was in a mystical way, by metaphors and allegories, to represent the attempts and persecutions of the wicked against the servants of God, the punishments that should in a short time fall upon Babylon, that is, upon all the wicked in general: the eternal happiness and reward, which God had reserved for the pious inhabitants of Jerusalem, that is, for his faithful servants, after their short trials and the tribulations of this mortal life. In the mean time we meet with many profitable instructions and admonitions, which we may easily enough understand: but we have no certainty when we apply these predictions to particular events: for as St. Jerome takes notice, the Apocalypse has as many mysteries as words, or rather mysteries in every word. Apocalypsis Joannis tot habet Sacramenta quot verba-- parum dixi, in verbis singulis multiplices latent intelligentiae. Ep. ad Paulin, t. 4. p. 574. Edit. Benedict.
 
Give me a reason WHY the numbering in **these **chapters in Revelation are symbolic. 1st request

You do not believe all numbers are symbolic in scripture.
As I quoted in another post, the early Christians, who Catholicism looks to, did not believe they were figurative. Please reread the post where I quote directly from the Catholic Encyclopedia.
So once again, give me a reason to take them figurative.
But whats more EVEN if they are figurative and the thousand years is really 10000 years or even 10 days, there is no reason to not believe the chain of events are actual chain of events.

So the second request is to some me why they cannot be an actual chain of events.
 
Give me a reason WHY the numbering in **these **chapters in Revelation are symbolic. 1st request
Because it is not to be taken literally. Do you expect Jesus to have a sword on his mouth? That for one is symbolic. Or the beast who’s name is Six Six Six, which actually translated as Nero. I already told you more than once from Peter’s own Epistle reads the following:
2 Peter 3:8:
But of this one thing be not ignorant, my beloved, that one day with the Lord is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
Large Numbers like thousands means eternity in the context of God, who is outside time and space.
You do not believe all numbers are symbolic in scripture.
As I quoted in another post, the early Christians, who Catholicism looks to, did not believe they were figurative. Please reread the post where I quote directly from the Catholic Encyclopedia.
So once again, give me a reason to take them figurative.
But whats more EVEN if they are figurative and the thousand years is really 10000 years or even 10 days, there is no reason to not believe the chain of events are actual chain of events.
I believe some are symbolic and some are not. For once there is a passage in the Revelation where the Lord is Crucified.

Revelation 8:11 And their bodies shall lie in the streets of the great city, which is called spiritually, Sodom and Egypt, where their Lord also was crucified.

The great city is Jerusalem for we know that Jesus was crucified there.
So the second request is to some me why they cannot be an actual chain of events.
For one, Is Babylon really Babylon? We know that when Scripture often use the term Babylon for a Code Word for Pagan Rome. You can’t interpret Scripture in the modern context my friend. If you do you will be deceived and try to make prediction of Jesus Second Coming, which no one knows, the hour nor the time.
 
God does not owe the Jews any land or protection.

Zionism is based on the faulty assumption that God still owes the Jews the land He promised to give to Abraham’s descendants. Scripture, however, teaches that God has already fulfilled His promises to the Jews. (Jos. 21:43) (1 Kings 8:56) (Neh. 9:7-8)

Thus, those who believe that God still owes the Jews land and protection by divine decree deny the plain meaning of Scripture and make God a liar. In fact, the loss of Israel’s ancient holdings is a sign of God’s divine judgment against the Jews for rejecting His Son, Jesus Christ, their Messiah. God warned Israel in (1 Kings 9:6-9).

Scripture is clear that God owes the Jews nothing more, and suggests that the Jews are suffering the ramifications of rejecting Jesus Christ. They have been “broken off” of the root of Christ “because of their unbelief” (Rom. 11:19-20). However, Paul says that the Jews can be grafted in again, “if they do not persist in their unbelief,” for God has the power to do so (Rom. 11:23).

The Old Covenant that God entered into with the Jews has been superseded by the New Covenant of Christ. (2 Cor. 3:14) (Heb. 7:18, 8:7, 10:9). I am refering to the “Mosaic covenant" not the Abrahamic covenant which was based on grace through faith and was incorporated into the New Covenant of Christ. All this means that the Jews are no longer in a saving covenant with God until they renounce Judaism and are baptized into Jesus Christ.

This has been happening with individual Jews since the time of Christ. Scripture does not teach a future mass conversion of the Jews.

Peace,

Ryan 🙂
 
I intended to directly quote (1 Kings 9:6-9)

“But if you turn aside from following me, you or your children, and do not keep my commandments and my statutes which I have set before you, but go and serve other gods and worship them, then I will cut off Israel from the land which I have given them; and the house which I have consecrated for my name I will cast out of my sight; and Israel will become a proverb and a byword among all peoples. And this house will become a heap of ruins; everyone passing by it will be astonished, and will hiss; and they will say, Why has the LORD done thus to this land and to this house?' Then they will say, Because they forsook the LORD their God who brought their fathers out of the land of Egypt, and laid hold on other gods, and worshiped them and served them; therefore the LORD has brought all this evil upon them.’”
 
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