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JulianN
Guest
I saw it before I knew about his private life, so I always think of him as Fr. Michael. 
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otjm
Guest
And a real life example is Fr. Mockaitis; the case is Mockaitis v. Harcleroad; the penitient (Hale) was in the Lane county jail as a suspect with a co-defendant Susbauer in the murder of three people. Hale had indicated an awareness that his phone and personal conversations were being taped. Hale had requested that Fr. Mockaitis visit him for the purpose of confession, and it occurred in the visiting area, by phone (the two were separated by a wall and glass). Apparently normal procedure was that all phone conversations were taped.
A search warrant was filed for the tape which was now in the District Attorney’s office, sealed and secured.
Hale was baptized, but not as a Catholic; Fr, Mockaitis was unaware that conversations (with the exception of one with an attorney) were recorded.
The search warrant was granted; objected to (objection denied), There were several hearings; the Church was rejected as not a party to the proceedings, and in a strange twist, the defendant requested that the tape not be destroyed, as possible evidence of his lack of guilt.
The Church took the case to Federal Court - in which the District Attorney agreed that the taping “falls within the zone of societally unacceptable conduct” (but did not agree to any legal justification to destroy the tape prior to its use at trial. The state case was a death penalty case.
On appeal from the denial in Federal Court, The court found that the Church (and the priesst and archbishop) had reason to believe that confessions would not be taped.and that their rites undere the RFRA and the 4th Amendment had been violated. While not demanding the deestruction of the Tape, the State was not allowed to use it, and while the Defendant could detail his confession, the priest could not be called (by either side) as a witness, either in person of by tape.
Hale was later convicted and sentenced to death. There have been no one executed since 1997 and there are 35 awaiting execution, subject to the moratorium.
A search warrant was filed for the tape which was now in the District Attorney’s office, sealed and secured.
Hale was baptized, but not as a Catholic; Fr, Mockaitis was unaware that conversations (with the exception of one with an attorney) were recorded.
The search warrant was granted; objected to (objection denied), There were several hearings; the Church was rejected as not a party to the proceedings, and in a strange twist, the defendant requested that the tape not be destroyed, as possible evidence of his lack of guilt.
The Church took the case to Federal Court - in which the District Attorney agreed that the taping “falls within the zone of societally unacceptable conduct” (but did not agree to any legal justification to destroy the tape prior to its use at trial. The state case was a death penalty case.
On appeal from the denial in Federal Court, The court found that the Church (and the priesst and archbishop) had reason to believe that confessions would not be taped.and that their rites undere the RFRA and the 4th Amendment had been violated. While not demanding the deestruction of the Tape, the State was not allowed to use it, and while the Defendant could detail his confession, the priest could not be called (by either side) as a witness, either in person of by tape.
Hale was later convicted and sentenced to death. There have been no one executed since 1997 and there are 35 awaiting execution, subject to the moratorium.
Tis_Bearself
Patron
I note that a whole bunch of non-Catholic churches, including various Protestant churches, LDS and Jews, joined that case as amicus on the side of the Catholic Church. Any attempt to undermine the secrecy of the confessional is likely to get a similar response with a whole bunch of churches joining on the side of the Catholics.
Also, in that case the defendant probably was hoping/ planning to use his confession himself later for evidence. He was aware that conversations were recorded and communicated by writing when he didn’t want to be recorded. The priest wasn’t aware of this.
The appellate court did the right thing there.
The D is in Oregon. He will never be executed there. He’ll just sit on death row till he dies of some other cause.
Also, in that case the defendant probably was hoping/ planning to use his confession himself later for evidence. He was aware that conversations were recorded and communicated by writing when he didn’t want to be recorded. The priest wasn’t aware of this.
The appellate court did the right thing there.
The D is in Oregon. He will never be executed there. He’ll just sit on death row till he dies of some other cause.
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otjm
Guest
I have not followed along with what has been proposed in California, but the legislature there has been at it again to strip away the confessor/penitent privilege.
And the status of the death penalty in Oregon is that it is in abeyance due to the individual occupying the role of Governor; she inherited the position from the governor who started the moratorium and although subsequently elected to the office, is now the object of a recall petition. Unless and until the laws on the books are either modified or overturned, 35 individuals continue to live “in limbo”.
A bill was signed modifying the penalty to those committing an act of terrorism resulting in the death of two or more; murder of children under 13; murder of a prison member while incarcerated for aggravated murder, or murder or a police officer.
I don’t know the definition of “terrorism”.
And the status of the death penalty in Oregon is that it is in abeyance due to the individual occupying the role of Governor; she inherited the position from the governor who started the moratorium and although subsequently elected to the office, is now the object of a recall petition. Unless and until the laws on the books are either modified or overturned, 35 individuals continue to live “in limbo”.
A bill was signed modifying the penalty to those committing an act of terrorism resulting in the death of two or more; murder of children under 13; murder of a prison member while incarcerated for aggravated murder, or murder or a police officer.
I don’t know the definition of “terrorism”.
Tis_Bearself
Patron
My understanding was that the bill died in the Senate.
If there’s been a development since then, would someone from Cali please post?
Oregon is not going to be executing anybody any time soon.
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otjm
Guest
It does make for an interesting conundrum, as the current governor signed the bill narrowing the range of death penalty applications while stating that the death penalty is immoral. While it reduces the number down from 35 waiting for execution, clemency resides with her.
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