Secular Carmelites and those curious

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Ok, I’m going out on a limb here since I don’t usually start threads . . . so here it goes.

I started coming to this forum a few months ago with a definite purpose in mind: to help discern if I have a call as a Secular Carmelite. Happily I can say that I’ve become an aspirant.

I’ve noticed two things since I’ve been here:
  1. There’s a fair number of Secular Carmelites posting here
  2. There are many, many people who have expressed their interest in Carmelite spirituality on any number of threads over the last few months.
Sooooo…

I thought I’d play a bit of the match maker. Hopefully, some of the Secular Carmelites will feel free to share some aspects of their life in Carmel, how they discerned their call and how they live the Rule even in a married state (which might suprise many people). These are just a few thoughts that come to mind.

Then, perhaps, those that have an interest in Carmelite spirituality might be prompted to ask questions. Who knows, perhaps someone here might begin to discern if they have a call themselves. Call me naive . . . but that’s my intention 🙂

The timing of this post at Thanksgiving could either be a good thing or bad. Bad in the sense that attendance on this forum might be down and this thread will fade away into oblivion. Good in the sense that people will have top of mind awareness for all that they are thankful for and feel prompted to share with others.

Anyway, I’ll be signing off for a few days since I’ll be in a very low tech place for the holidays.

I look forward to what might happen with this . . . if it goes anywhere I’ll chime back in 🙂

Happy Thanksgiving and God bless . . .
 
]Dear DBT

Happy Thanksgiving to you.

I am very glad you have started this thread. I am hoping to learn alot and be able to share some things as it progresses.

As someone who is a new formative third order Carmelite I feel a little out of my depth to begin a topic or to start a discussion. I’d rather someone with more experience and knowledge do this.

I am interested to hear of any explanations of St Teresa of Avila’s Interior Castle. What people feel about differing aspects of prayer and how prayer features in their life. I am hoping to learn more of Elijah and also how people devote themselves to our Blessed Mother. This is not a topic I am opening by saying this, but as the thread progresses I am hoping to develop myself in these and hear what others can impart knowledge and experience wise.

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa
 
Thank you Teresa!

I too feel a bit out of my element . . . but I look forward to hearing from you and others. By the way, I haven’t left yet 👍
 
I think this is a great idea.

I’d like to see a lot more people committing themselves to following a spirituality that leads to a life of holiness and invites others by how they live their lives to do the same.

I have the impression that very few people are aware of what a spirituality is and I believe threads of this sort could be a springboard to a beautiful growth in the Church.

The world needs genuine examples of holiness; people who go beyond talking the talk all the way to walking the walk and then some.

Maria
 
Thank you very much Maria.

Time for me to leave for the weekend. I hope this thread takes on a life of its own 🙂
 
I’m going to be entering a Carmelite Hermitage in 6 months or so. Does that count? 🙂
 
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mhansen:
I’m going to be entering a Carmelite Hermitage in 6 months or so. Does that count? 🙂
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Dear friend

It most certainly does count! 🙂 Are taking a retreat or are you entering as a novice?

God Bless you and muc love and peace to you

Teresa
 
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Teresa9:
Dear friend

It most certainly does count! 🙂 Are taking a retreat or are you entering as a novice?

God Bless you and muc love and peace to you

Teresa
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I’ll be entering as a novice. Of course, I’ll be making a couple more visits before then. I have some loose ends to tie up before I can go “for real.”

In Christ,
Mike
 
As I have shared with Teresa (my favorite Carmelite on these boards) I have an intense love for Carmelite spirituality through sampling the works of John of the Cross and Teresa of Avila. She is more accessible to me as a spiritual director, but John has written the most beautiful love poetry I have ever read in any language. As I told her, I have been studying Spanish for 3 years not only because of the demands of my job, but primarily for personal reasons–so that I may read and understand his poetry in the original language.

I never encountered any Secular Carmelites or I may have joined them, and I am already professed as a Benedictine Oblate. Our spirituality based on the Liturgy of the Hours and lectio divina is the reason, and this is they lynchpin of my spiritual life, because it helps me incorporate and live the Eucharist.

But without spiritual direction based on the Dark Night and the Interior Castle, I would not have the understanding or appreciation of the movement to contemplation, which has been the natural outgrowth of LOTH and lectio. I would have feared it rather than accepting it. somebody like me needs the discipline of the Benedictine way in order to benefit from the fruits of the Carmelite way.
 
I’m planning on attending our local lay carmelite community’s open house sometime this winter so I will be interested in any discussion that may arise here.
 
I have been trying to learn more about the secular Carmelites and would really like to see this thread continue.
maggiec
 
Dear friends

I have a busy weekend ahead, with alot of reading to do with my formation, as well as travelling Monday to see my Spiritual Director. Please excuse my lack of (name removed by moderator)ut into this thread until I return to post after Monday next week.

I am so looking forward after you folks have had Thanksgiving for this thread to flourish

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa
 
If someone has a question regarding OCDS, just ask I’m sure it will be answered. My wife has helped to establish 3 communities and is fully professed, I will make my final prof. this comming year. I am the director of formation in a new group we just got started (7months ago).

There are 19 groups in FL
 
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Leo44:
If someone has a question regarding OCDS, just ask I’m sure it will be answered. My wife has helped to establish 3 communities and is fully professed, I will make my final prof. this comming year. I am the director of formation in a new group we just got started (7months ago).

There are 19 groups in FL
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Dear Leo

WOW!!! Now I am excited!! thank you so much for offering this so generously. I am sure I will be asking alot of questions!😃 I am looking forward to you and your wife’s participation in this thread.

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa
 
**St. Teresa of Avila is my favorite saint. I think she was a woman ahead of her time, and her writings are outstanding. **

I belonged to a Secular Carmelite chapter years ago, but left, because the group was so badly run. I have always wished for another group…much nearer my home than the first was. I love to read books about the Carmelites and their spirituality.
**Has anyone read “Springs of Carmel”? **
Catholic Heart
 
Dear Leo

I have a question for you that I really do need clarifying and from your experience and another post of yours that I have read, I think you are the guy to do this, I hope you will reply to my question.

I am hearing two arguments in respect of St Teresa’s contemplative prayer, my Spiritual Director says that it is a very rare gift from God to be a contemplative and that we pray in the ‘spirit’ of the contemplateive to deepen our prayer life and spirituality, however other posters on this forum say that contemplation is possible for all and that there are ‘degrees’ of contemplation some of which most people possess. Would you please clarify what is the exact facts of this and the truth to be observed in St Teresa’s writing.

Thank you in advance

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa
 
Teresa,

I think it would help a great deal if you explore the link provided from New Advent by Chaffa55 in the other thread on 11/23/04. She provided an excellent description that may be just what you need to clarify the different aspects of contemplation. There are two states: one is natural, that a person may acquire with his own advancement in prayer, and the other is supernatural wherein God Himself infuses the gift.

This is probably the difficulty we are having in understanding one another, and the link should help. Unfortunately, I cannot copy/paste excerpts here due to being on a network.

Carole
 
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Teresa9:
Dear Leo

I have a question for you that I really do need clarifying and from your experience and another post of yours that I have read, I think you are the guy to do this, I hope you will reply to my question.

I am hearing two arguments in respect of St Teresa’s contemplative prayer, my Spiritual Director says that it is a very rare gift from God to be a contemplative and that we pray in the ‘spirit’ of the contemplateive to deepen our prayer life and spirituality, however other posters on this forum say that contemplation is possible for all and that there are ‘degrees’ of contemplation some of which most people possess. Would you please clarify what is the exact facts of this and the truth to be observed in St Teresa’s writing.

Thank you in advance

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa
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Words are very important and how they are used is also. I just looked up CONTEMPLATION on a cd I have that is St. John of the Cross, I went to Glossary of Terms by K, Kavanaugh this is what I found (I’ll leave out the references he uses)

CONTEMPLATION: The communication of God united to the senses, or the particular, received passively by the spirit in an attitude of faith and love, of general loving attention. Also called mystical theology. May be referred to as infused because the soul receives it passively, just as one receives sunlight by doing no more than opening the shutters. Takes away the satisfaction associated with discursive prayer. In prevalence of some effects over others is what determines the use of these adjectives. Its signs are: an inability to practice discursive meditation, a disinclination to fix the imagination on other things; the desire to remain alone in loving awareness of God without particular considerations; or in this latter case, when the contemplation is purgative, a solicitous and painful care about serving God and not turning back despite feelings of aversion or dryness in the things of God.

Much to digest but I would say we are all called to grow spiritualy, as much as God wants us to or to the extent He desires, and it is thru our cooperating with Him that this growth will take place. Meditation is a door thru which that growth can take place. There are two types of contemplation, aquired and infused. The above describes infused which we can only recieve if it is His will. Aquired contemplation is"aquired" thru the repedative use of St. Teresa’s Method Of Mental Prayer, read in “The Way of Perfection” by Kavanaugh. Aquired contemplation some of our higher faculties may be suspended and we may feel that we are in the presence of GOD. But it is unlike Infused contemplation where we KNOW that we have incountered GOD.
 
Dear Leo, thank you for your reply. I am most grateful to you as you have explained it in such a way as is not only concise to understand but also polite and intelligent. I am now much happier with what my Spiritual Director meant by her statement which fits in exactly with what you have instructed here. Thank you , I really am most grateful

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa

Dear Carole While I know your heart is good and while I know you mean to educate me and have my best intentions at heart, there are ways of explaining things to people withou making them feel inferiorly intelligent to yourself or that you have a secret no-one else will possibly ever understand. Do not mistake a novice for someone who is unintelligent or inexperienced in prayer. All you understand dear friend is the meaning of terms, it is moreover important to understand the spirit of prayer and what is happening when one prays. If I sound rude I apologise, but it is no favour to yourself to persist in informing people of your rich experience in such a manner that creates a feeling of personal distaste for your presumed…‘that persons lacks understanding’ I lack no understanding of what happens in my heart, of how I feel God’s presence, all you have dear friend in adavntage of me, is the correct terms. To dress my words up any other way would be lying to you. I have stated the truth of how your instruction comes across to others, (other people here using my computer have read what you have posted). I am sorry if this offends you, but there are ways of telling things to a person without firstly making it personal and secondly making them feel they are ‘stupid’ for not getting it. This is how your posts, especially in the other carmelite thread, have made myself and several others feel.

Please don’t take this as I have nothing to learn from you, of course I do, I probably have much to learn from you.

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa
 
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