Secular Carmelites and those curious

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Jenlyn:
Here is a question for the wonderful people on this thread.

What do you do when you have meditated on a topic, say a mystery from the rosary and you go dry? You can not come up with any more ways to look at it. Do you keep meditating with the same ideas over and over again? Is this the best thing for us to do?

Peace,
Jenlyn
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Dear Jenlyn

I won’t count myself as one of the wonderful people! If it’s OK I’ll give you my thoughts on this.

Sometimes a soul can find itself, as you have said, in a rut, stuck and not proceeding, forgetting though all that previously the Almighty has taught that soul. In these times I reflect back over from the point where my faith deepened and look at all things in detail the Almighty has taught me. It helps to keep a notebook or diary and if time allows note everyday the things the Lord taught you about and what the fruits of your work have been.

Sometimes when a soul does this, further things are brought to the soul and the Almighty teaches further on what ground we THINK we may have achieved in and become knowledgeable spiritually in. There is no end to this journey in meditation and contemplation and we find we need to keep reading and revisiting different meditations, reflect on Sacred Scripture, especially Luke, for the Carmelite.

Sometimes the Almighty withdraws His help and aid to our work to encourage us to persevere alone, in trust that He is still with us and to find which way we will be led by Him if we take note of our spiritual lives.

I find as well that if meditation stagnates, take your meditation before our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament and ask Him to teach you. Ask the Blessed Mother Virgin Mary to teach you and guide you in her footsteps of contemplation and meditation in the Presence of Her Son in the Blessed Sacrament. Ask the Holy Spirit for guidance, discernment and counsel to enlighten you and teach you.

I have also noted that sometimes aid is withdrawn so that instead of striving in our spirituality, we are called to Praise God and reflect and meditate on His Glory and Majesty in all things of the Universe, especially in His Son Christ Jesus and offer praise and thanksgiving, purely for His glory. If we are ungrateful children who desire to please but do not raise enough thanks and praise, why should the Lord continue to form us?

Also Jenlyn, not forgetting you are only human and at some points I have found that it is my fault I am stagnating and dry, it is my fault because I become complacent and do not try, so relying on the same thoughts whilst praying and in time those become burdensome, the mind is not stretched and the heart looses spirit.

In these times I give myself a stern talking to.

Are you referring to this or are you wondering if you are in the ‘Dark Night of the Soul’ ? I would say categorically, no you are not in the Dark Night.

Persevere dear friend and trust the Almighty will not leave you unaided. The dryness is a blessing that raises us to the Lord in deeper ways and is not something to worry over or think we are not ‘doing it right’. It is a blessing that causes to reflect upon our dryness and offer praise and thanksgiving for the times of ‘water’ and ‘consolation’

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa
 
Dear Jen,

It seems to me you read the Story of a Soul, by St. Therese, so you may remember that she also had a difficult time praying the rosary. May I say that the worth of the prayer does not consist in having many deep insights or lights about the mysteries?

Many of us attend daily mass, and have for many years. How much more can one learn about the mystery of the mass? No, the worth of the mass does not consist in this. The worth is in Jesus’s sacrificial offering to the Father on our behalf, and our oneness with that offering. Same with the rosary. Our Blessed Mother prays with us, and if we do not have deeper insights, but dryness, that’s ok.

Back to Therese. Even though she had problems with vocal prayer, such as the rosary, she received many lights from reading scripture. Her entire book is full of the insights God gave her as she meditated on His sacred Word. She modeled her life upon these. Basically, that is the purpose of meditation - to understand the truths that God has revealed to man about Himself, that we may know Him, love Him, serve Him.

After many such years, and the orange is all peeled of its rind, there may come a day when meditation is utterly impossible - that is, in the discursive sense. [One of the signs that the soul is ready to advance.] Until that time, we must do our own work and spend discovery time with the Lord. Nor should vocal prayer be neglected in favor of meditation, for it, too is necessary. But it should be sincerely prayed in the presence of Our God who is listening, as Teresa taught in Way of Perfection.

Oh my, I hope this is helpful to you in some way, Jen.

May Our Blessed Lord be always with you!

Carole
 
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FCEGM:
Jen, I think that’s the time to place oneself more deeply in God’s Presence in the midst of the Mystery. Clear thoughts about the Mystery won’t come, but deeper love will. Let the Mystery “surround” you without particular attention to the “detail” of it.
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Thank you! I think I will once again enjoy saying the rosary.

Peace,
Jen
 
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springbreeze:
Are you referring to this or are you wondering if you are in the ‘Dark Night of the Soul’ ?
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Absolutely not! 🙂 If I may use an example for my prayer life about my prayer life it is this:

I am standing on Pluto and God is the sun. The sun is so far away that it makes Pluto cold and the sun appears as a faint star.

I am not frustrated because I know I will grow if I perservere. 👍

Peace,
Jen
 
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Joysong:
Dear Jen,

It seems to me you read the Story of a Soul, by St. Therese, so you may remember that she also had a difficult time praying the rosary. May I say that the worth of the prayer does not consist in having many deep insights or lights about the mysteries?

Many of us attend daily mass, and have for many years. How much more can one learn about the mystery of the mass? No, the worth of the mass does not consist in this. The worth is in Jesus’s sacrificial offering to the Father on our behalf, and our oneness with that offering. Same with the rosary. Our Blessed Mother prays with us, and if we do not have deeper insights, but dryness, that’s ok.

Back to Therese. Even though she had problems with vocal prayer, such as the rosary, she received many lights from reading scripture. Her entire book is full of the insights God gave her as she meditated on His sacred Word. She modeled her life upon these. Basically, that is the purpose of meditation - to understand the truths that God has revealed to man about Himself, that we may know Him, love Him, serve Him.

After many such years, and the orange is all peeled of its rind, there may come a day when meditation is utterly impossible - that is, in the discursive sense. [One of the signs that the soul is ready to advance.] Until that time, we must do our own work and spend discovery time with the Lord. Nor should vocal prayer be neglected in favor of meditation, for it, too is necessary. But it should be sincerely prayed in the presence of Our God who is listening, as Teresa taught in Way of Perfection.

Oh my, I hope this is helpful to you in some way, Jen.

May Our Blessed Lord be always with you!

Carole
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Many great points. I do scripture reading. Meditating on those readings is something I can add.

I need to reread “Story of the Souls” again.

I also think I need a good spiritual director. It’s obvious that I want my prayer life to improve but there are too many ways to do it, very confusing! 😃

Peace,
Jen
 
Jen,

Also remember that you will never be able to understand everything. Just pray with your heart and soul, and God will do the rest.

Lay all your burdens at the foot of the Cross, and if you can’t do that, ask Jesus to take them from you.

He will—as long as you ask.

Love & Prayers,

SuZ
 
Centering Prayer sounds Budhist to me, as a former new ager. Persoanlly, I say that emptying one’s mind is not human.

We were given a dynamic instrument to probe things of the world and spiritual things. Shutting it down is anything but getting closer to to God or even opening it to Him.

Jesus said to seek Him, and He’ll be found, with our whole body, mind and soul.

Then again, it wasn’t supposed to be debated and perhaps it’s got nothing to with Budhist practices.

God bless.
 
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Jenlyn:
Many great points. I do scripture reading. Meditating on those readings is something I can add.

I need to reread “Story of the Souls” again.

I also think I need a good spiritual director. It’s obvious that I want my prayer life to improve but there are too many ways to do it, very confusing! 😃

Peace,
Jen
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Dear Jen

You have such a lovely heart and nature and in every post you demonstrate your desire and keeness to please God.

There is such alot of Catholic devotions and prayers as well as Charisms, that it would only be fair to yourself to take your time and look at all of them, afterall there is no rush to search through all of them at the speed of light and find one; only to find later that in haste you happened upon the wrong one for you.

Yes, friend, you are right, you do need someone you can meet with on a regular basis to counsel you. Everyone here has given you great and informative advice, but I agree you need to take things slowly and discuss with a Priest or a Sister your spirituality and seek guidance this way.

Jesus knows you heart and if you ask Him and the Holy Spirit, He will guide you to where you are meant to be. There are no co-incidences in life and everything happens for a reason

God love you

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa
 
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Augustine:
Centering Prayer sounds Budhist to me, as a former new ager. Persoanlly, I say that emptying one’s mind is not human.
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Are you speaking from experience, or just guessing? Like CCR, Centering Prayer is not the best prayer form for everyone-- and also like CCR definitely not for those skeptical of it, or those who have been influenced by non-Catholic rituals.

These are Catholic Priests and Monks who teach Centering Prayer, so again as with CCR, please be respectful, and if you really have never studied or practiced it, your comments are really not helpful.

The book “Centering Prayer” by Pennington explains it quite thoroughly, and you could get an idea if it is a prayer form which might enhanse your prayer life.
 
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Mysty101:
Are you speaking from experience, or just guessing? Like CCR, Centering Prayer is not the best prayer form for everyone-- and also like CCR definitely not for those skeptical of it, or those who have been influenced by non-Catholic rituals.

These are Catholic Priests and Monks who teach Centering Prayer, so again as with CCR, please be respectful, and if you really have never studied or practiced it, your comments are really not helpful.

The book “Centering Prayer” by Pennington explains it quite thoroughly, and you could get an idea if it is a prayer form which might enhanse your prayer life.
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Just to throw in my two cents, since this a Carmelite thread. I recently read Fr Dubay’s book “Fire Within”, which is an introduction to advanced prayer through the writings of Teresa of Avila and John of the Cross.

His conclusion in that work is that centering prayer as a technique to obtain “contemplation” is completely at odds with the teresian and sanjuanist teachings on infused contemplation. If I had to make a choice, I think I’ll learn from the Saints…
 
There is obviously a difference in Theology between 2 valid sources. I did feel “Authenticity” by Dubay is the best work on discernment I have ever read, but I also learned much from Pennington’s book.

The average person will never achieve Contemplation. Also, isn’t infused Contemplation more a gift than dependent on our prayer form? Did Dubay totally dismiss centering Prayer as a prayer form? What about other prayer forms? I would want to see the whole section, rather than one statement paraphrased out of context.
 
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Mysty101:
These are Catholic Priests and Monks who teach Centering Prayer, so again as with CCR, please be respectful, and if you really have never studied or practiced it, your comments are really not helpful.
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Sorry about that.

In this day and age, I’ve seen priests, monks and nuns teaching about reincarnation, “the goddess”, etc, so I’m trying to find out what this is about.

I’d appreciate if you’d be patient with me and perhaps introduce Centering Prayer in a couple of sentences.

God bless you.
 
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Mysty101:
The average person will never achieve Contemplation…
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Sorry if I sound the wrong way, but this seems a tad gnostic to me. I don’t mean to make waves, but for an ignorant in spiritual matters like me, it seems to put too much importance in this practice or that, on what one has to do or achieve, etc. What’s the goal, getting into contemplation or living forever in Heaven by the Beloved’s side?

God gives everyone enough Grace to fill one up. There’s really nothing we can do to get more or sooner, except to follow His commandments: love God with all one’s heart and love one’s neighbors as oneself.

From the little I’ve read by St. Teresa, it seemd to me more as a guide book fro those who happen to have been taken there by Our Lord, not a guide on how to get there. I don’t recall her teaching any method to do what she did. Or did I miss something?

God bless you.
 
Dear friends

This is a beautiful and peaceful thread of fellowship and community where people interested in or whom are already secular Carmelite’s or who wish to share in the Charisms by visiting this thread.

I would be most sad to see it turn into yet another battle ground over CP. I would be sad to see this thread possibly close for that reason.

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa
 
Dear Jen

This morning it also occurred to me and I thought I would add it on to my last post.

As a formative Carmelite, I have a Spiritual Director who is a Priest, as well as my Confessor who is my Parish Priest and also the Sister who is incharge of my formation. I am obedient to them and although I may receive other sometimes conflicting advice from people outside of this, people I know and people on this forum, I remain obedient to my Spiritual Director, Confessor and to the Sister; I have found so far that none of their advice and counsel has conflicted at all.

Just something to bear in mind as there is alot of opinion out there, but there is only ONE truth and Obedience is the key to spiritual formation.

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa
 
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springbreeze:
Just something to bear in mind as there is alot of opinion out there, but there is only ONE truth and Obedience is the key to spiritual formation.
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Yes, there is only one truth, and obedience is the key, but we are all different, and there are many ways to get there. We must all be respectful of the legitimate Catholic prayer forms of others, whether or not we (or even our Spiritual directors) agree. As was said many times, we must choose what is right for us, and it is always best to have good solid Catholic direction, if we are practicing Catholic.

I did not bring up CP, but I will not allow disrespect or dismissal of it as a legitimate Catholic prayer form. For anyone interested here is the best website I have found, and also the book mentioned is excellent
centeringprayer.com/

I will be glad to discuss it in another thread, if it will be allowed.

Love & Prayers,
 
Dearest Suz

Thank you for providing the links for those who wish to pursue the CP topic in further discussion and debate within that thread. Thank you again

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa
 
Good morning, Jen,

Re: I need to reread “Story of the Souls” again.

One of the chapters where St. Therese shared many of her insights into scripture was toward the end of the book in the one titled, “Toward the Heart of Charity.” Amazing spiritual insight into some very difficult passages in Jesus’s Sermon on the Mount!

From the posts I have seen you share on the Forum, you are a busy bee with all the good reading you are doing. I have no doubt whatsoever that you will learn quickly and grow ever more close to God.
 
A baby step forward and two steps back…I’ll get there!😃

P.S. Aren’t we all called to contemplation? Doesn’t it say that somewhere?

Peace,
Jen
 
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