Seeing my narcissistic/sociopathic mother again after almost two years...nervous and anxious...please advise?

[Demetra2]

Do you see a therapist ? If you do, arrange for an appointment before and after your museum meeting for strength and guidance. Also talk to your priest and ask for a blessing. If you choose not to go that is OK too. Have your husband there for protection and to be another set of ears. Don’t let the kids alone with her and keep control of the visit and keep it short. The whole thing is sad but I understand. I had similar problems with my mother and our family has not seen her for 12 years. It is often a basic issue of safety and sanity. You are pregnant and your first responsibility is to yourself and unborn child. God Bless, dear one.

 

[Caroline723]

"Just out of curiosity, have you had any experience with people who have Narcissistic Personality Disorder, Antisocial Personality Disorder (sociopathy), Borderline Personality Disorder, or Bipolar Disorder?

I was not attacking your efforts to heal from the past, or blaming you for your mother’s behavior. To be honest, it never occurred to me that my words could be taken in that manner until I read your reply. I was referring to your vomiting as a violent reaction.

Reading through all the comments here, I am sorry to read so much emotion and pain. In response to your question, yes, I do have experience with these personality disorders. It’s involves issues that only one or two very close friends know, so it is strange to share this anonymously online. I have been afraid and wary of my own mother going back as early as I have memory. I was sexually abused for years as a small child by my mother’s father. It ended only after he was caught molesting a cousin visiting from out of state. He was protected by my grandmother and mother; I still had to see him afterward, but was told to just “give him a quick kiss and avoid his hands.” My mother was just cold and mean to me afterward. I had always thought she treated me this way out of guilt, and we never spoke about the abuse. My mother was the center of our family in that all attention was always directed to her. She was and still is the long-suffering victim of an unloving husband, ungrateful children, unfair life, etc. After college I moved away. I was still under her influence psychologically. I tried to create boundaries; it didn’t work. I did cut contact with my family for two years. I was returning to the faith at this time, and believed that faith and grace could heal my internal wounds from the past. I restored relationships with a few siblings (I have seven siblings and some are similar to my mother). When I was around 30, I brought up the topic of my grandfather to my mother. She started talking, and I realized that she had been aware of the abuse as it was happening. My memories, which had always seemed disjointed and illogical, made much more sense. Anyhow, she went on and on about how hard it was for her. All she had to say about me was that before the abuse I had been “her most expressive child”. There was no apology, no “I’m sorry it happened”. She is incapable of viewing others in any way other than what she can get out of them. I stopped being valuable to her. After six months of this truth sitting like a rock in my heart and stomach, I finally started therapy. It had never occurred to me until then that my mother was mentally ill; describing my childhood and have the same feedback from several psychologists was an eye-opener. Then I started nursing school and during my psychology studies and practicum, recognized a lot of familiar behaviors.

When I talked about not letting her get to you; what I find most painful in having contact with people like this, is that they will say or do anything to get what they want, and because they never get involved emotionally, they never feel the suffering that we feel. They are not capable of love in the same way we are. From my experience, love to them is on the level of thirst (CS Lewis calls them “need-loves”). They feel it as a impulse, it’s strong; they satiate it; and move on until the thirst returns. To them, maintaining control in relationships/interactions is a highest priority. There is zero mutuality. For us, in interactions, we feel that old familiar sense of loss of control; it feels like the ground has been pulled out from beneath us.

You said that this is not some person who entered your life later, but your mother. But in my opinion, the truth is that your mother is not capable of loving you as a mother is supposed to, and your mother should hold no higher place of value than a stranger. And peace will come only when you sever that mother/child tie on your own. This is all I meant by saying don’t give her the power to affect you. She is manipulating that bond that is natural to feel with a mother.

I don’t know what their culpability is. On the one hand, they are able to manipulate human emotions so it’s logical to assume they have knowledge of it. On the other hand, their behavior often seems beyond their control. My own mother to this day still views herself as a victim of a cold, ungrateful daughter. Two of my siblings know about my history of abuse. But my younger siblings weren’t born yet when it happened, and I never told them about it, or about my conversation with my mother. My mother complains to them about how badly I treat her, how she only wants to love me. She does not connect the present to the past at all. My siblings who still have relationships with her have the same exact type of relationship we had as kids; my mother’s needs and wants take precedence even over their own children. They still view my mother as the saintly victim she would tell us she was, growing up (yep, she called herself that).

 

[Caroline723]

I have nieces and nephews I want a relationship with. But to be at family parties, I would be exposed to my mother. I was not happy cutting contact with everyone. It is not possible to have family gatherings without her, because she would find out about them, and call the siblings loyal to her, and they would bow out. Honestly, hearing my mother say she didn’t care that her father abused me cut the last internal thread I had to her. I started to practice at family functions keeping a polite distance from her, having limited conversations at these functions, and not discussing it with siblings, and I found myself in a much more peaceful position. I can be around her now and am undisturbed by her conduct. Every once in a while she will try to reinitiate things, but I know she has not changed internally because she still engages in pitting sibling against sibling. My sister remarked once that we will have better relationships once my mother dies. It is sad but true.

My advice to you was because of what you said about wanting contact with your niece. Your email reminded me of the difficulty I faced when I went no contact with her. We can’t control another person’s behavior, but we can control our response with practice. I was sharing with you what worked for me because my goal was to have a relationship with the rest of my family, while protecting myself from my mother. Sorry for the length of this note. Hope it helps.

 

[EasterJoy]

Beautiful prayer. Thank you. This is so very helpful, especially since you have direct experience with narcissistic parent. And you are right, I have struggled to understand God, the God who revealed Himself and defied all human expectations and definitions, and it has made my path harder. I forget that I can turn to the very God who lovingly placed me in this situation, to beg Him for His protection and healing for my weak and wounded heart.
It has been so hard for me to watch my sister “reconcile” with my mother, and be the odd man out. It weakened my resolve. But recently I see that their lives are becoming intertwined and my sister seems less open and happy. I do not want to follow that same road. I need to pray and keep my distance.

I have talked to my priest. He had encouraged me to protect myself, with regret, of course. He sadly understood and reassured me that there was no sin in what I was deciding. Sometimes, though, when I get so confused and doubtful of my own recollection and experience, it gets really hard to remember his counsel.

“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how many times I yearned to gather your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, but you were unwilling!" Luke 13:34

The Lord knows what it is to love someone who responds with violence instead of a desire to repent and be reconciled. He knows what it is to be stoned for speaking the truth, and even to have to flee to a foreign place as a mere child, to avoid those who sought his life. This is how the “sane” and the “learned” treated him. Your mother may turn out to have been only mentally ill.

You know the seeds of the doubt of your own recollection were planted by the very one who would exploit you again, if only she could get you to be forgetful of how she operates.

It is not impossible that she will repent and amend. Perhaps your sister’s efforts will bring that about. It is not wrong to long for that! Still, you know that her history makes the prognosis for a healthy relationship with you or anyone else extremely poor. The prognosis is even worse if acting in a damaging way gives your mother what she wants. IOW, what you are doing is probably more likely to bring about your mother’s amendment than what your sister is doing. Still, you each need to be able to try your own way and to be formed by your own path through the trials you both have to face.

You can’t tell what will happen. Hope almost makes it harder, but it is not wrong to have it. In the meantime, even as you hope for the best, you have to act according to the current reality and even prepare for the worst.

Hang in there! Just because this is hard does not mean you are not handling it in one of the best ways you possibly could. Hang in there!!!

 

[Truth_Faith13]

I have now read more of this thread…and wanted to say on my Facebook, there is a picture which says “God someone times removes people from your life to protect you, don’t run after them”. I honestly think you are safest to have no contact with your mother.

I know it’s a stressful issue but Thankyou for raising it. It’s confirmed my decision to remove relatives from my life as I can see certain parallels in their behaviour. Especially regarding giving you false information and making you think it happened. I found myself second guessing myself for a time, but unfortunately for them, I have always had a good memory, trust my instincts and knew they were deliberately fabricating information…and then believing it themselves.

Keep strong!

 

[mommamaree]

Caroline,

God bless you. I thank you so much for sharing your story from your heart. I see that you do know EXACTLY what I am dealing with. Even though I objected to some of what you had said before upthread, I appreciated your effort to help me, so I hope that my response to you communicated that. I am going to go back and read all your posts in this thread now, and consider all of what you have said here in proper context. I am so very sorry for what happened to you as a child, and for how your mother behaved toward you as a result. A similar thing happened in my family with my sister and the way my parents treated her nearly destroyed her. Well, in fact, it did destroy her. She is still hiding behind delusions, and she struggles with a host of serious mental health issues. My heart breaks for her. Anyway, I have said enough for now. I have been reading the thread regularly, and thinking hard through this issue, and discussing it with my husband. I will respond more tomorrow, perhaps.

 

[lily22]

if you go to any domestic violence class, they will tell you: no contact. it’s unfortunate.

 

[newf]

After six months of this truth sitting like a rock in my heart and stomach, I finally started therapy. It had never occurred to me until then that my mother was mentally ill; describing my childhood and have the same feedback from several psychologists was an eye-opener. Then I started nursing school and during my psychology studies and practicum, recognized a lot of familiar behaviors.

I don’t know what their culpability is. On the one hand, they are able to manipulate human emotions so it’s logical to assume they have knowledge of it. On the other hand, their behavior often seems beyond their control. My own mother to this day still views herself as a victim of a cold, ungrateful daughter. Two of my siblings know about my history of abuse. But my younger siblings weren’t born yet when it happened, and I never told them about it, or about my conversation with my mother. My mother complains to them about how badly I treat her, how she only wants to love me. She does not connect the present to the past at all. My siblings who still have relationships with her have the same exact type of relationship we had as kids; my mother’s needs and wants take precedence even over their own children. They still view my mother as the saintly victim she would tell us she was, growing up (yep, she called herself that).

Caroline, what a horrible situation for you. I am very sorry you had to endure such a terrible mother.

One thing I want to comment on is the idea of your mom being mentally ill. I kind of hate that description because it lets her off the hook for being responsible for her actions. If she is mentally ill, she just can’t help herself, right? And then we think ‘well, if she was in her right mind, she would never treat me so badly. But she is sick so we have to tolerate it.’

I don’t know if your mom is or is not mentally ill. But from what you wrote, she certainly is evil. And evil people need to be held accountable. I think you do a disservice to the rest of your family who do not know why you have cut yourself off ( rightly so!). They need to know that your mom handed you over to be abused repeatedly when you were a defenseless child by your mother’s father. And that is the reason why you have no contact. Your mother is not a safe person for children to be around. If your siblings have young children, they need to know this.

Again, I am so sorry for your pain and suffering. Thank you for sharing your story with us.