Seeking a balanced description of Mormoninsm

[psyche23]

Wow, definately different from Catholicism. So not to sound ignorant here, but do Catholics consider Mormons Christians then??? Sounds too far off, but what do I know?

Oh, and what does BOM stand for?

Lastly, are these points some things ALL Mormons are required to believe or is it optional. I’m asking because it seems hard to learn more about a religion if it’s not consistent between the different facets. Which one is supposedly the first Mormon group/ the main group? LDS??? It’s the only one I’ve heard of but know nothing about them.

Sorry for my ignorance.

I’d look on websites, but am afraid all I’ll get is conflicting info.

 

[psyche23]

I also thought there were quite a few Mormons. Or am I thinking of a different religion.?

 

[zerinus]

Wow, definately different from Catholicism. So not to sound ignorant here, but do Catholics consider Mormons Christians then??? Sounds too far off, but what do I know?

Oh, and what does BOM stand for?

Lastly, are these points some things ALL Mormons are required to believe or is it optional. I’m asking because it seems hard to learn more about a religion if it’s not consistent between the different facets. Which one is supposedly the first Mormon group/ the main group? LDS??? It’s the only one I’ve heard of but know nothing about them.

Sorry for my ignorance.

I’d look on websites, but am afraid all I’ll get is conflicting info.

I will give you one bit of advice. If I wanted to know what Catholics believe, I would ask Catholics, not Catholic apostates. Similarly, if you want to know what Mormons believe, you ask Mormons, not Mormon apostates. They will only lead you astray. They will not teach you the truth about Mormonism.

zerinus

 

[Cincy]

BOM+ book of morman

 

[majick275]

I will give you one bit of advice. If I wanted to know what Catholics believe, I would ask Catholics, not Catholic apostates. Similarly, if you want to know what Mormons believe, you ask Mormons, not Mormon apostates. They will only lead you astray. They will not teach you the truth about Mormonism.

zerinus

and if you want to know what scientologist believe you could ask them too…Why you could ask any one in a cult what they believe and get a deceitful answer. accuracy comes from those who were there and learned the truth. everything I tell you about mormonism can easily be verified from mormon sources. mormons have a history about deceiving others called “lying for the lord” and “milk before meat”. you can examine facts or you can listen the emotional appeal of their relatively unchatecized missionaries to interpret whatever “feelings” you may have as evidence that their church is true. as to the Catholic church, we have a catechism and you can easily look up what we believe. it doesn’t change.

 

[RebeccaJ]

The difference from my point of view is the faithful people of the early Church did not remove themselves; it was the authority of its leaders that was removed. So you are right this is not the same as the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints.

Paul

Your POV is restorationist. A product of 19th century America. Mormonism is not the only religion to emerge from this movement.

And, your POV doesn’t change the fact that mormonism is based on Smith’s imagination. It is a lie.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Sorry, not very accurate for something you claim to know.

You know it’s close enough.

Mormons believe that God lives on a planet that is near to the star Kolob.

Either way, it is a belief that is counter to Christianity. God is not a space alien.

 

[psyche23]

I will give you one bit of advice. If I wanted to know what Catholics believe, I would ask Catholics, not Catholic apostates. Similarly, if you want to know what Mormons believe, you ask Mormons, not Mormon apostates. They will only lead you astray. They will not teach you the truth about Mormonism.

zerinus

That’s fine, but I was under the impression that some people on this forum were Mormons. If I’m wrong, please let me know.

Also, we should have hopefully a variety of Mormon denominations here since it’s a non-Catholic religions site so I was hoping to have varied opinions here, not just LDS or other… I’ve learned quite a bit just in this topic, accurate or inaccurate, it’s a start. I’d really like to understand all religions to increase a sense of unity. I also want the Catholic perspective on it. Another reason I’m on this site.

 

[Paul_G]

You know it’s close enough.

Mormons believe that God lives on a planet that is near to the star Kolob.

Either way, it is a belief that is counter to Christianity. God is not a space alien.

I think you are mistaken, what planet would that be?

Paul

 

[Paul_G]

Your POV is restorationist. A product of 19th century America. Mormonism is not the only religion to emerge from this movement.

The spirit was indeed moving at this time, many where touch by it, and from it did come a restoration.

And, your POV doesn’t change the fact that mormonism is based on Smith’s imagination. It is a lie.

I respect your opinion, but how do you know for sure?

Paul

 

[zerinus]

That’s fine, but I was under the impression that some people on this forum were Mormons. If I’m wrong, please let me know.

Yes, they were Mormons, and then left the Church. They are apostates form Mormonism. You know how it is when some people leave the Catholic Church, and become Protestants or Evangelicals or whatever; and then they hate the Catholic Church, and completely turn against it, and have nothing good to say about it? Well, that is how it is with apostates from Mormonism. Just as I would be unwise to try to obtain the truth of Catholicism from Catholic apostates, you would be unwise to try to obtain the truth of Mormonism from Mormon apostates.

Also, we should have hopefully a variety of Mormon denominations here since it’s a non-Catholic religions site so I was hoping to have varied opinions here, not just LDS or other

There is not much of “Mormon denominations” to speak of. The (Utah based) LDS Church is by far the largest, most prosperous, most successful, and most influential of the “Mormon denominations,” if you want to call them such. It has nearly 13 million members, and is the fastest growing church in the world. Its nearest rival is the Community of Christ (former RLDS church) that, at a few hundred members only, does not even come close—and is diminishing rather than increasing. The rest aren’t even worth mentioning.

… I’ve learned quite a bit just in this topic, accurate or inaccurate, it’s a start.

If it is inaccurate, it is a bad start!

I’d really like to understand all religions to increase a sense of unity. I also want the Catholic perspective on it. Another reason I’m on this site.

Yes, it is a good idea to get “different perspectives”. But remember that religion is not like politics, or business, or philosophy, or sociology etc. It arouses enormous passions, and its adherents sometimes go to great lengths to distort the perspectives of their rivals.

Another thing to note about religion is that it can be “true or false,” which cannot be said of philosophy or sociology. When we claim that Joseph Smith saw an angel, or that the Book of Mormon is a book of scripture and a revelation from God, that has to be either true or false. It can’t be neutral, or something in between. And you can’t determine the truth or falsity of it by “looking at another perspective,” because another religious tradition will have a vested interest in declaring to you that it isn’t! If the Catholic Church were to admit that the Book of Mormon is true, and Joseph Smith was a prophet, that would be like putting itself out of business! Do you think they would want to do that?

zerinus

 

[RebeccaJ]

I think you are mistaken, what planet would that be?

Paul

The one that is “like a sea of glass and fire”…a “great urim and thummim”.

 

[BCPoulsen]

You know how it is when some people leave the Catholic Church, and become Protestants or Evangelicals or whatever; and then they hate the Catholic Church, and completely turn against it, and have nothing good to say about it?

I’ve noticed an interesting contrast when reading posts by many ex-Catholics as compared with post from ex-Mormons. When an ex-Catholic returns to this site it’s usually in a spirit of sharing and testifying. The posts by ex-Mormons on the other hand are full of hatred and condemnation. This is also true of many of the posts by Catholics responding to ex-Catholics. A great illustration of the Savior’s words when He said: "For verily, verily I say unto you, he that hath the spirit of contention is not of me, but is of the devil, who is the father of contention, and he stirreth up the hearts of men to contend with anger, one with another. (3 Nephi 11:29)

“Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.” (Matt 7:20)

 

[RebeccaJ]

I’ve noticed an interesting contrast when reading posts by many ex-Catholics as compared with post from ex-Mormons. When an ex-Catholic returns to this site it’s usually in a spirit of sharing and testifying. The posts by ex-Mormons on the other hand are full of hatred and condemnation. This is also true of many of the posts by Catholics responding to ex-Catholics. A great illustration of the Savior’s words when He said: "For verily, verily I say unto you, he that hath the spirit of contention is not of me, but is of the devil, who is the father of contention, and he stirreth up the hearts of men to contend with anger, one with another. (3 Nephi 11:29)

“Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.” (Matt 7:20)

Obviously you haven’t been around long enough to know what you are talking about, let alone make a judgement.

 

[majick275]

Yes, they were Mormons, and then left the Church. They are apostates form Mormonism. You know how it is when some people leave the Catholic Church, and become Protestants or Evangelicals or whatever; and then they hate the Catholic Church, and completely turn against it, and have nothing good to say about it? Well, that is how it is with apostates from Mormonism. Just as I would be unwise to try to obtain the truth of Catholicism from Catholic apostates, you would be unwise to try to obtain the truth of Mormonism from Mormon apostates.

So then why try to convert catholics if you believe that would make them “apostates”? that’s a copout and you know it.

There is not much of “Mormon denominations” to speak of. The (Utah based) LDS Church is by far the largest, most prosperous, most successful, and most influential of the “Mormon denominations,” if you want to call them such. It has nearly 13 million members, and is the fastest growing church in the world. Its nearest rival is the Community of Christ (former RLDS church) that, at a few hundred members only, does not even come close—and is diminishing rather than increasing. The rest aren’t even worth mentioning.

there are many denominations of mormons and NONE of them are the fastest growing church in the world by any definition. not by percentage (SDA, assembly of God), not by raw number (roman Catholic) not to mention the poor convert retention rate and misleading activity statistics of the LDS. they like to use that marketing phrase to try and get people who are natural followers to join up.

If it is inaccurate, it is a bad start!

yes it is…especially the LDS start

Yes, it is a good idea to get “different perspectives”. But remember that religion is not like politics, or business, or philosophy, or sociology etc. It arouses enormous passions, and its adherents sometimes go to great lengths to distort the perspectives of their rivals. like zerinus
zerinus;3162283:

Another thing to note about religion is that it can be “true or false,” which cannot be said of philosophy or sociology. When we claim that Joseph Smith saw an angel, or that the Book of Mormon is a book of scripture and a revelation from God, that has to be either true or false. It can’t be neutral, or something in between. And you can’t determine the truth or falsity of it by “looking at another perspective,” because another religious tradition will have a vested interest in declaring to you that it isn’t! If the Catholic Church were to admit that the Book of Mormon is true, and Joseph Smith was a prophet, that would be like putting itself out of business! Do you think they would want to do that?

zerinus

and vice versa. so remember that when reading in mormon scripture that all other churches are wrong and their creeds an abomination in the sight of God. which makes more sense, Jesus establishing a church that lasts forever (Catholic) or Jesus church failing so badly in a single generation that it must be declared apostate and remain so for 1800 years and then be “restored” by a known conman in the US with a totally different set of doctrines than any taught before that continue to change to this day?

I think we all can see the truth.

 

[Paul_G]

The one that is “like a sea of glass and fire”…a “great urim and thummim”.

Something like what is described in Rev. 15?

Paul

 

[psyche23]

Actually, I think getting inaccurate information is just as good. Just like in science, it helps to rule things out and formulate explanations. It helps me to see the many different perspectives. Just like how some protestants think Catholics are cannibals or baby eaters (absurd). It’s good as a Catholic to know that some people believe that about us so we can follow up. I’m not saying learning inaccurate information is good if you don’t follow up on it. I should have been more clear.

“There is not much of “Mormon denominations” to speak of. The (Utah based) LDS Church is by far the largest, most prosperous, most successful, and most influential of the “Mormon denominations,” if you want to call them such. It has nearly 13 million members, and is the fastest growing church in the world. Its nearest rival is the Community of Christ (former RLDS church) that, at a few hundred members only, does not even come close—and is diminishing rather than increasing. The rest aren’t even worth mentioning.”

I would say that just by hearing the many different perspectives from even ex-Mormons suggests to me that there are quite a few different “denominations”. There may be one main one (LDS it seems), but that doesn’t make the others irrelevant.

I agree that it’s good to study other religions not as politics like you suggest, but as interesting subjects. Obviously as a youth minister, I firmly believe we have the one true faith, or I wouldn’t be doing my parish a service. I want to learn about other religions to both strengthen my own and to be able to answer questions my youth group might have. I would love to convert everyone to Catholicism, but I can only do that if I can understand where they’re coming from. I’m coming at this to try to unify us, not seperate us.

(don’t have who posted this on hand)

“and if you want to know what scientologist believe you could ask them too…Why you could ask any one in a cult what they believe and get a deceitful answer. accuracy comes from those who were there and learned the truth.”

Actually, I think it’s great to get info from the horses mouth so to speak as well as from popular opinion no matter how ridiculous it may seem. As a psychologist (Master’s degree pending), I go about learning in the scientific manner. This includes all types of information. While trying to be as neutral as I can, sometimes I get caught up in defending my faith.

And this last part is for everyone.

For the LAST TIME!!! COULD WE PLEASE ALL AGREE THAT IT DOES NO GOOD TO BE OVERLY SENSITIVE JUDGEMENTAL, UNCHARITABLE AND HATEFUL OF OTHERS??? -NOT TO MENTION JUMPING TO CONCLUSIONS BEFORE THE WRITER CAN EXPLAIN??? I think we can all also agree that it’s easy to misinterpret statements online. So before we get our panties in a knot, let’s ask first and try not to be arrogant in stating our beliefs…We are all searching for truth here. Yes, even those of us strong in our beliefs… It is a constant searching that should not be condemned.

 

[valient_Lucy]

A good question is, does the LDS church have a source that is comparable to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, that sums up all of its beliefs in a clear and concise manner? If not, why not? If anyone, Catholic or non-Catholic, wants to know what the Catholic Church teaches on a particular topic, they just need to find a copy of the Catechism of the Catholic Church, which is available at the local library, the bookstore, and even on the internet. Is there any source similar to this in the LDS church?

 

[BartBurk]

All you need to know if you want material to feed your bias.

Paul

I gave a link to the Gospel Principles manual earlier. Having been a Mormon for over 30 years, I think I have a pretty good idea where Mormonism stands. I still attend sacrament meeting weekly with my wife and receive all of the LDS Church material in the mail since my wife is still very active and I even have a son on an LDS mission. It is hard to find a balanced view on Mormonism. It claims to be either all true or all false as President Hinckley said a couple of years ago in conference. The Book of Mormon is either a true ancient scripture or it isn’t. How can one be balanced about that? There is no evidence at all for the Book of Mormon except for the “spiritual witness” of LDS Church members. There is no evidence of any ancient Hebrews among the Native Americans. Balance is hard to achieve when there is no objective evidence available. You just cannot find Mormonism anywhere prior to the early 1800s.

That is not to say that Christianity doesn’t have the same problem to some extent. Either Christ rose from the dead or he didn’t. But at least with Christianity I have the testimony of an ancient record we know was written near the time when the events occurred. And I have an ancient church still testifying of the same thing it did 2000 years ago.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Something like what is described in Rev. 15?

Paul

Something that came out of JS arse.