R
RebeccaJ
Guest
Yeah, I figured out long ago you are here to proselytize. Still at it I see.You figured that one right. I do, however, occasionally reply to some of them; but only on my own terms, not on their terms!
zerinus
- Status
R
Rbt_Southwell
Guest
Hey Zman, when you get appointed Elder or Apostle of your church, let us know here at Catholic Answers and we will toast your continued success with the adult beverage of our choice!You figured that one right. I do, however, occasionally reply to some
of them; but only on my own terms, not on their terms!
zerinus
Robert
M
majick275
Guest
I am actually in agreement here. If they think you are a potential convert they will probably âswarmâ you with missionaries and such but If you attend the gospel doctrine class instead of the one for âinvestigatorsâ at sunday school time then I think you would get an educational view of mormons. I donât think it would be complete but if you were truly curious it would give you a pretty good idea about the average mormon beliefs and practices. (excluding the temple of course)
I would point out though that if you are unclear about your won beliefs and/or not well catechized then it is NOT recomended as it would only serve to confuse.
P
Prince_Hal
Guest
I am reticent about encouraging anyone to attend an LDS chapel. It is my personal belief and witness that there is a spirit that attends the LDS church and it is not the Holy Spirit. But everyone needs to make their own choice. I am certainly not discouraging people because I think they might be attracted to what they see. Those who are not grounded in their faith or are vulnerable to the wrong spirit might well be affected.
So what will you find. With all the charity in the world, it will be an eye opener to anyone who has any mainstream, orthodox religious grounding.
Last week in the Ward that my wife attends, the 2 sister missionaries bore their testimonies. They were very passionate that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God and that the Book of Mormon was âtrueâ. Not a word about God and His goodness, or the atonement of Christ, the life of Christ, or the Bible.
A man whose son is on an LDS mission was called up. He broke down in tears and told us how a âspecial spiritâ was now in his home because his son was on a mission. Streams of emotion - but no testimony or adoration of God.
Conclusions at the meeting made by the bishop that the spirit had attended the meeting in great abundance and that it was a âspiritual feast and banquetâ. Often phrases are borrowed from the LDS General Authorities from their conference addresses.
A couple of weeks earlier, a sister declaring that there was a great apostasy based on one scripture that could be refuted by a dozen others. A comment that she was not giving the talk for the congregation but it was for her, things that she needed to know and for her growth.
Talks that are best given in self-help groups like the AA. A constant lack of any adoration of God, or even mention of Him. The absence of worship.
An adult Sunday School lesson (the Sunday before New Year) where the teacher stood up and told us that the book of Revelation was so difficult to understand because it had been translated so many time and like âchinese whispersâ was now distorted. No one challenged it.
Virtual adoration of a bishop on the day of his release as bishop, taking over virtually the entirety of the meeting, to the exclusion of the worship of God - in the sacrament meeting (LDS equivalent of Mass).
A bishop looking up to the heavens and pounding his chest saying he has studied Catholicism and it is wrong - and then we discover that his study was no more than a newspaper article.
Swathes of LDS faithful chattering in the corridors during the lessons. Comments that it did not matter if the talks were not edifying, because what really mattered was the obedience in sitting through them.
I am sorry Zerinus, and I know that you are not alone in your attitude and self deception. I have been in several Wards and Branches in the UK and USA and it is very, very similar. Lots of emotion (not the spirit), erroneous teachings (never corrected or contested), self-help talks but no worship.
I know there are âuniqueâ characters in all churches, but in the LDS church this feeble minded behaviour seems to be institutionalised. Conform with the LDS brethren at all costs - except the cost of actually being open minded and intelligent or at least showing some degree of commonsense.
I apologise for my harsh words. But after 20 years of this abnormality, it has been quite a shock to see and experience real worship and wonder again and again how I was ever taken in.
God bless,
Hal.
W
why_me
Guest
Tsuzuki!
It is good to see you here. You will find the hardnosed catholics on this board to be rather intolerant of you attending both the mormon service and the catholic mass. For them, it is all or nothing. However, in the average world of most catholics no one will really care if you do both. In fact, I see nothing wrong in it. I often go to mass and still go to the lds service too. No problem.
In my opinion, if attending RCIA meetings and attending Mass and the Mormon service brings you closer to Christ, I see no problem with it. Good luck! And see you on the other board!!
W
why_me
Guest
Actually Hal, one needs to remember that there is a difference of culture between the RC faith and the Mormon Faith. Most religions worshiip in their own way, creating a specific culture of individuals.
The lds adore Christ and the goodness of god just as much as the RC does but they show it in a different way. Lets face it Hal, there are many catholics who attend mass, in worship and adoration and when mass is over, begin to lead their normal unadoring lives. For the lds, keeping the commandments is a daily practice of adoration. Most sunday school classes stress leading a christian life by keeping the commandments and doing the work of god. True the worship is different from the RC church but not the intent. My daughters are one example. If they were RC, they would be considered great catholics because they lead a moral life based on the commandments. And they attempt to do good works with Jesus in their hearts. But they are mormons.
If only RC youth and adults can emulate Mormon youths and adults in religious principles the RC faith would be strengthened and blessed a thousand times more. It is not how often one says the rosary that matters but how one lives life and recites the rosary.
T
talter
Guest
I have to agree with you Hal. I have been to sacrament meetings in 4 different wards in 3 different states. They were all very much like a group therapy type of meeting, especially if itâs fast and testimony Sunday. I think it has to do with the fact that at the ward level itâs really just a church of lay people. Even the leaders of the ward are nothing more than elevated laymen. So because they arenât well schooled in public speaking, theology, philosophy or logic they fall back on âthis is my experience on xâ (x being subject having been given to the speaker by the bishop).
And when it comes to the teaching in the classes I find it so sad (so should Mormons but they donât seem to agree, trust the spirit they sayâŚ) that the instructors donât have even a rudimentary background in theology let alone an educational background. I sat through one lesson that was talking about why they use water instead of wine during their sacrament. His teaching was because wine is âoldâ having been fermented it was not good for us. He even cited a passage from scripture to back it up. Unfortunately I canât remember the verse but I do remember sitting there mouth agape like an idiot that he would say such a thing. I was there with my wife and a bunch of people I didnât know so I didnât challenge him but the logic was just absurd. If that was really the case then how do they explain their use of leavened bread. Where exactly do they think the yeast comes from? Yeast comes from only one of two places either itâs a sour dough (naturally occurring yeast in the air ferments in the starter dough) or it comes from manufactured yeast which is created by letting some sugary concoction ferment, now a days itâs mainly molasses and water. Either way the yeast is not new and is a result of FERMENTATION. From that point on I realized why it is that so many Mormons donât know the history of their church or why there are so many different beliefs held by members. Itâs because all to often the teacher knows little more than they do. A friend of mine was just telling me the other day that in his old ward (he entered the CC 2 years ago
) that a new convert (less than 1 year in the church) was called to be the gospel principals instructor. Before joining the LDS church he was a staunch atheist and had as he liked to say ânever used the Bible as anything other than a booster seatâ. But the âspiritâ moved the bishopric to call him so there he was teaching other people what the Bible says. My friend says the guy is still teaching the class. 
N
NewSeeker
Guest
Since it seems to be a trend, here are my credentials (i.e., bragging rights):
Fifth generation Mormon in both paternal and maternal lines
42 years in the LDS Church, baptized at 8
4 yr seminary graduate
2 yr states mission, Zone Leader, 14 baptisms
Temple marriage in the SLC Temple
Membership in 23 wards in 7 states (CA, AZ, UT, NV, LA, TX, NC)
In my experience, Prince Hal and Talter are correct about what Mormons focus on in church ; Zerinus and Why Me are not.
NewSeeker
Fifth generation Mormon in both paternal and maternal lines
42 years in the LDS Church, baptized at 8
4 yr seminary graduate
2 yr states mission, Zone Leader, 14 baptisms
Temple marriage in the SLC Temple
Membership in 23 wards in 7 states (CA, AZ, UT, NV, LA, TX, NC)
In my experience, Prince Hal and Talter are correct about what Mormons focus on in church ; Zerinus and Why Me are not.
NewSeeker
R
Rbt_Southwell
Guest
God bless you, NewSeeker.
And for that message, you will be blessed with Zerinus ignoring you.
Welcome to the forum.
Robert
And for that message, you will be blessed with Zerinus ignoring you.
Welcome to the forum.
Robert
Z
zerinus
Guest
I know why he is saying that, psyche23! Allow me to explain to you something about how our Sunday Church meetings are organized. Our Sunday Church services usually last for three hours. They normally start at ten and end at one. That time is divided into three approximately one hour periods. The first hour is devoted to Priesthood meeting for men, and Relief Society for women. The second hour for Sunday School, and the third hour for the main service of the Church, which we call the Sacrament Meting, in which the Sacrament of the Lordâs Supper is administered, and sermons are preached.
During the second hour, which is for Sunday School, there are several classes for people of different age groups or experience in the Church. The main class for the adult members of the Church is the Gospel Doctrine class, where the textbook of study is the scriptures themselves. There is also the Gospel Principles or Gospel Essentials class, which is designed for investigators and recent converts to the Church. If you visited an LDS Church, you would normally be invited to attend that class. But there are no hard and fast rules. If you say that you prefer to attend the Gospel Doctrine class, nobody would object.
Now the course of study in the Gospel Doctrine class, as I had explained, it the scriptures themselves. However, since our scriptural literature is a much bigger than those of other churches, it would be impractical to go through and study all of it in one year. Therefore each year a different book of scripture is studied. One year it is the Old Testament, the following year it is the New Testament, followed by the Book of Mormon, and then followed by the Doctrine and Covenant and Church History. After that the same cycle repeats itself. Last year, for example, we studied the New Testament. The year before that we had studied the Old Testament. This year it will be the turn of the Book of Mormon. And next year it will be the Doctrine and Covenants and Church History.
The reason why he is recommending you to ask to attend the Gospel Doctrine class is that, as I just explained, this year we will be studying the Book of Mormon; and he thinks that if you attend the Gospel Doctrine class you will come out with the false impression that the Book of Mormon is all that we talk about, and that we donât pay much attention to the Bible! Well of course that is not true. We pay as much attention to the Bible as we do to the other books of scripture that we have. We donât discriminate between the Bible and the Book of Mormon, or any other scripture. To us they are all the word of God, and all of equal value.
Having said that, however, his suggestion may not be a bad one after all. If you ever do decide to visit an LDS Church some day, it might be a more educational experience for you to attend the Gospel Doctrine rather than the Gospel Principles class. You will get a better idea of what Latter-day Saints are about on Sunday at Church that way. So if you would like to attend that class, feel free to do so. But bear in mind what I have just explained. We will be studying the Book of Mormon in that class thins year, not because that is all we ever talk about, but because the lot has fallen to that book in this particular year.
zerinus
N
NewSeeker
Guest
Thank you Rbt Southwell. I have sought Jesus all of my life and despite a lifetime of faithful Mormon practice I have never found Him - not until I stopped denying the scriptural and historical evidence, that is, and followed where I know God is leading me: to Catholicism.
I am enrolled in RCIA and am (im)patiently waiting for the Easter Vigil to finally arrive. I long to be one with Jesus in Holy Communion. Soon the day will be here.
NewSeeker
I am enrolled in RCIA and am (im)patiently waiting for the Easter Vigil to finally arrive. I long to be one with Jesus in Holy Communion. Soon the day will be here.
NewSeeker
W
why_me
Guest
And how was I wrong? I focused on differences in culture between the lds faith and the catholic faith. The catholic mass has its own cultural practice which affects the way catholics worship as do the lds. Likewise for the penecostals. I cannot say that catholics adore god more than the lds. The proof of adoration comes from just how we do life as christians and not how different churches worship.
Also, as you well know, the sacrament meeting is where the lds remember Christ and the sacrafice that he made for us. The rest are focused on member involvement in sunday school, priesthood and relief society and the member talks during sacrament.
For many catholics, it is church on sunday for 45 minutes and then home until next week. Nothing wrong with that per se, but the culture is different from the lds.
I attend mass a few times a week and very few people show up during the week. I am also involved with a group of nuns. But I would have to say that most catholics have no inclination to be involved outside of Mass on sunday which is required for them to attend, if not they do not attend, it becomes a mortal sin.
W
why_me
Guest
Mother Teresa did not feel Jesus in her interior life for years and years. And yet, she still did the work of God. For many catholics, the inner darkness is present and yet, they remain faithful to the faith. At times it is quite natural not to find or sense Jesus and yet, still do good works with faith.
I think that the test comes when we no longer feel Jesus and yet still believe.
R
Rbt_Southwell
Guest
R
Rbt_Southwell
Guest
R
RebeccaJ
Guest
whyme, I hope you clearly understand the differences between a mormon sacrament and a Catholic Eucharist. The mormon sacrament is a âremembranceâ only. Catholics believe in the Real Presence of Christ. One is white bread and water, thatâs it. The other is the Real Body and Blood of Christ.
Mormons are required to attend the 3 hour Sunday track. Careful attendance is taken at Sunday school, priesthood and relief society. This is entered in a computer. The Bishop knows who is not there, and when people are missing, they get a phone call or a visit. So comparing Catholics attending mass because a sense of having tooâŚthat sense is out of Love for God. It is attending to the commandment of thou shalt Love the Lord thy God. How many mormons attend all these meetings out of a fear that the Bishop is going to send someone out after them? Or even worse, the Bishop showing up himself?
I still maintain that you have no idea what other Catholics do. You are involved in one ministry. In any one parish there are many ministries, in a diocese there are hundreds, and you have no idea how many people are involved and who they are because it isnât announced at mass. People are involved because they want to be, out of love of God, and following Christâs commandment to server others. They are all true volunteers. Not like mormonism, where everything is a calling and many people say âyesâ because they fear to say ânoâ, and they donât really want to be there.
J
JesuitLoyola
Guest
No in LDS teaching the Godhead consists of three seperate entities united in purpose. Yes, all members of the LDS church believe in the divinity of Christ based on the fact that he was achieved exaltation much in the same way we do today. Yes communion of the saints is implied in the teachings though never explicitly stated, at least not to me. The obsession with genealogies comes from the fact that part of the ordinances we are to perform is baptisms for the dead which offers those in spirit prison an opportunity to receive the gospel after death, and to be received into heaven (whichever layer you end up in). The basis for the belief that Mormonism is not Christian but something else lies in a two part âproblemâ. The first is that Mormons basically redefine Jesus as a different man, for instance, the marriage at Cana was his own, he became exalted to become one with the father. stuff like that. Being that he is not the same Jesus, Catholics donât in general consider Mormons Christian. (though I do). Secondly, they say they are the âOne True Churchâ and neither protestant or catholic. By saying that they define themselves as outside of Christendom.
P
Prince_Hal
Guest
WhyMe, of course you are correct in many ways. There is a cultural difference, and I think there are certainly some Catholics who can become âinstitutionalisedâ in Catholicism.
But, it is a more fundamental difference that I refer to. It is my opinion from experience and prayer that there is a spirit that leads the LDS church, but it is not the âHoly Spiritâ. It is a blinding and numbing spirit that blinds people to truth and allows them to remain with emotion. It is my honest belief that the following scripture from Thessalonians sums this up. It is a scripture often used by the LDS church to prove a universal apostasy (verses 1 to 3). But it is the latter part of 3 and verse 4 that are enlightening:
2Thess 2:4 (King James Version)
1: Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2: That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3: Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4: Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
New American Bible:
1 We ask you, brothers, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our assembling with him,
2 not to be shaken out of your minds suddenly, or to be alarmed either by a âspirit,â 2 or by an oral statement, or by a letter allegedly from us to the effect that the day of the Lord is at hand.
3 Let no one deceive you in any way. For unless the apostasy comes first and the lawless one is revealed, the one doomed to perdition,
4 who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god and object of worship, so as to seat himself in the temple of God, claiming that he is a godâ
This I believe is the description of the spirit that leads mormonism, and what makes the culture of mormonism so different and spiritually dangerous.
God bless you.
Hal.
W
why_me
Guest
The latest book which contains her letters to her confessor and spiritual director. It was just published in an attempt to make Mother Teresa a Saint. It is called: Mother Teresa: Come be my Light.
time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1655415,00.html
W
why_me
Guest
Correct me if I am wrong but does not the Catholic Church more or less say the same thing? That they are the true church. In fact, the TV program âJourney Homeâ on EWTN is called âjourney homeâ for that very reason.
- Status