Seeking forgiveness of sin from God

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Julius_Caesar said:
A departure from traditional understanding.
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Perhaps.

“the fears of the saints, their godly jealousies of themselves, and pious care that they be not lost, are not at all inconsistent with the firmness of their election, their security in Christ, and the impossibility of their final and total falling away; but on the contrary are overruled, and made use of by the Spirit of God, for their final perseverance in grace and holiness.”


As to Chrysostom commentary Romans 8:29:

"Doubt not then about the future. For he showeth even upon other grounds His concern for us by saying, that things were fore-ordered [1452] in this way from the beginning…:
 
mcq72 said:
As to Chrysostom commentary Romans 8:29:
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But no Romans 11?
mcq72 said:
are not at all inconsistent with the firmness of their election,
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Which you cannot know.

Romans 11 from Chrysostom again:

Ver. 22. “Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in His goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.”

And he does not say, Behold thy well doing, behold thy labors, but, “Behold the goodness of God” toward man, to show that the whole comes of grace from above, and to make us tremble. For this reason for boasting should make thee to fear: since the Lord (despotes) hath been good unto thee, do thou therefore fear. For the blessings do not abide by thee unmovable if thou turnest listless, as neither do the evils with them, if they alter; “For thou also,” he says, "unless thou continue in the faith, wilt be cut off."

Security is only for those who keep the faith.
 
mcq72 said:
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mcq72:
the best view is ascertained by divine revelation of His Word and history via faith
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Julius_Caesar said:
Which according to said Word is not the final source.
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The final source is to be in accord with the Word via divine revelation.
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What do you mean by “the Word”? If you mean the bible, how would you account for revelation when there was no written word? And if you can’t account for the bible as the sole or primary source of revelation (you can’t obviously), what is?
 
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Julius_Caesar said:
The Church has authority over the Scriptures.
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Is that like saying the child has authority over the parent?

Or like the recipient of the gift being above the giver? Or a custodian over the owner?

The church is authoritative when she rightly divides the scriptures. Otherwise beware of any leaven.
Julius_Caesar said:
Jesus is the Word.
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And so does the Church have authority over “Jesus” ?

The church has authority to represent Jesus.

As members of His church we have authority to represent Jesus.

The Truth rests upon and in the church as surely as the Lord is upon and in the believer disciple.
 
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goout said:
What do you mean by “the Word”?
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It is everything that proceeds out of the mouth of God. Scripture is God breathed. We are to teach the words of Jesus, His teaching via the Spirit.
 
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goout said:
I will just note that you have backed yourself into a corner and are now evading the hard question.
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That is ok. Let every thought and utterance be subject to Christ. We are all there, even the Church. Do we not all want to be subject to , obedient to Christ, even when teaching what is such obedience?

May we be humble and take proper advantage of one another being “cornered”.
 
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That is an interesting position to take, sort of like what came first the chicken or an egg.
 
Wannano said:
That is an interesting position to take
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And has been the position since the beginning of time.

God creates community. Community keeps God’s instructions in their hearts, then community wirtes it down.

Scripture is a product of God’s community.
 
That I can understand, I thought you were proposing that all Scripture was a product of the Catholic Church.
 
I would say that scriptures are God’s written revelation to the church. Not a product of the church. God is the source of scripture. He inspired men to write the text but ultimately they are God Breathed and not from man’s imagination or opinion.
 
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