Seeking forgiveness of sin from God

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And you’d have to leave your own group then because it has its worms.
 
You do know there is a scientific reason why we see a blue sky.

Ask how do we know blue is blue…now that’s a question that makes you think.

@Julius_Caesar, you never explained your comment to me
 
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annad347 said:
You do know there is a scientific reason why we see a blue sky.
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Lol…i had to recall the science behind it, but i googled it a couple of months ago knowing i had forgotten it, and why the sea is blue, and same reason why sometimes the sky is orangey/red.
 
Julius_Caesar said:
No. Neither you nor I can bind or loose
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Well true in the Catholic Church. Yet many have been losed from sin and bound to Christ in offspring . communities just as well. Somehow the doors open and close elsewhere also (besides CC).

Is not salvation and damnation for others at the tip of our tongue?
Julius_Caesar said:
And you’d have to leave your own group then because it has its worms.
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All brethren are on the same ship…we have not gotten off the mother ship and are dingy’s as some suggest. We just differ on how to access the captain, and of the use of amenities on board.
 
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Julius_Caesar said:
Which is your invention.
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No, the CC has her biblical and traditional support for always being right (correct, without error), even God breathed (eaqual to scripture) on teaching on matters of faith and morals. Otherwise, yes, ORAR is an invented term but some think aptly fit ( just as is OSAS).

I mean has the CC magisterium ever been wrong on teaching on matters of faith and morals, according to her? Has she not always been right, with “no worms” ?

There are quite a few warnings to the church to also persevere, stay true, not apostasize etc., to balance out promises of guidance and victory. No different than eternal security discussions.

The inventing can go both ways? It is an uncharitable word for those arriving at different understandings, even a development of them, avoiding any basis for them.
 
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Julius_Caesar said:
No. Neither you nor I can bind or loose.
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Not individually. But the eclessia, the People of God, where given the authority to Bind and Loose. That authority is given, not just to Peter and the Apostle, but all of the Body of Christ.

We see this in Matthew 18

17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. 18 Truly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed.

It is clear in this text that “Binding and Loosing” is a function of the entire church body, in this case a local body of believers, and not just the elders. According to this passage the elders are supposed to “tell it to the church” and if the sinner refused to even listen to the church, then they are to be disciplined.

BTW- Binding and loosing is about church discipline and order. It is not about defining the Gospel message.

We are all bound to faithfully proclaim the Gospel, that was given to us by Christ, and that never changes. If we teach another Gospel then we are in error. If we claim something is needed to be a Christian or to be “saved” that was not part of the message of Christ then we are wrong. No claim of “binding or loosing” changes that fact. If we call things Okay, that are sin, then we are in error. If we call things sin, that aren’t sin (like the Pharisees did) then we violate the gospel message just as the Pharisees violated the Mosaic Law.

Binding and Loosing isn’t the freedom to proclaim anything we decide as “truth”. It is the responsibility to follow the “truth” that had already been revealed by Christ and hold and proclaim that “truth”.
 
lanman87 said:
It is clear in this text that “Binding and Loosing” is a function of the entire church body,
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Nope.

Note WHO Jesus is saying this to. The Apostles.

Jesus is giving them the authority to do what Peter does individually.

Note that only Peter has the keys.
 
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Julius_Caesar said:
Note WHO Jesus is saying this to. The Apostles.

Jesus is giving them the authority to do what Peter does individually.

Note that only Peter has the keys.
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So true. The apostles and Peter were with Jesus for three years. This was something that could be seen and believed. Their actions after Pentecost could be seen and their words heard as the Lord’s words and actions.

Now as to successors indeed it can be seen that many were in same vein, but many or not all also.

Just as Moses was original recipient of the Law and had been with Jehovah in that reception, his succesors in his seat a milennia and more later were hit and miss as to giving evidence of equally speaking in truth and spirit of Jehovah and thus for Jehovah.

Same too with the leadership of kings. Saul was a tragedy and David stellar. But how many kings thereafter were a disaster, and their heart not after God?

We follow God’s chosen vessels in truth and spirit. Sometimes that is problematic, conditional. So who is to say which presbyters and bishops today indeed have been with Jesus, with Jehovah, and filled with His unseen Holy Ghost, in apostlic, even Petrine fashion? It certainly can not be presumed by mere “succession” or “blood line”, or laying on of hands, as to who walks guided in truth and spirit as the Lord’s ministers.

Just like the OT, we have our heroes and our “tragedies” of ministers in the faith. Just like the OT, faith was not of this sect or that, or of this office or that, but was “Jewish”, of Jehovah, so to ours, that it is Christian, of Christ.

Just as keys are hung on a nail that can be removed and given to another, nail and all, so to a congregation’s candlestick?

Are we not challenged enough today to walk in truth and spirit in our duties to the Lord ? To that end, you follow your bishop/ presbyter and we will follow ours, for where the priest/pastor is there is Christ?
 
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