Seeking forgiveness of sin from God

  • Thread starter Thread starter ZemD
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
goout said:
If all you need is Jesus, you also need The Body (or Church) by definition.
Everything is one in Christ. You can’t claim to have Jesus without also claiming The Church.
That means you accept human authority given by Christ, and you accept that the Scriptures came out of the human community that is iin Christ.
The bible is meaningless outside the context of The Church, by definition of who Christ is.
Click to expand...
The church is made of people. Jesus never asked to have faith in people. He only ask us to have faith in Him.
 
Julius_Caesar said:
You can’t have faith in Him and sever His Body or disregard His shepherds.
Click to expand...
I don’t, I am apart of that body, and I don’t disregard His shepherds, as long as the Shepherds are teaching the same Gospel as Christ.
 
lanman87 said:
40.png
Julius_Caesar:
You can’t have faith in Him and sever His Body or disregard His shepherds.
Click to expand...
I don’t, I am apart of that body, and I don’t disregard His shepherds, as long as the Shepherds are teaching the same Gospel as Christ.
Click to expand...
And that faithfulness to teaching is determined by…
 
Last edited:
lanman87 said:
40.png
goout:
At that faithfulness to teaching is determined by…
Click to expand...
The Scriptures, we are the only reliable record we have of the teachings of Christ and the Apostles.
Click to expand...
…who are people, not books.
Thank you.
Scripture is not self referential. It does not claim itself as the ultimate authority. The fullness of the Gospel was already a real thing before scripture, when all you had was the authority invested in the Church. You can accept that right?
 
Last edited:
goout said:
…who are people, not books.
Click to expand...
People who were eyewitnesses of Christ and the apostles and who’s “books” are considered divinely inspired.

I accept that the Gospel was supernaturally preached by the Apostles after Pentecost. That the early church believed the teaching of the Apostles to be divine revelation, whether it was by letter or in person.

I also believe the divine revelation ceased with the death of last living apostle. And that the only reliable source of the “divine revelation” we have are the Gospels and letters that were also considered divine and read in all the churches, even churches that were never visited or started by an apostle.
 
lanman87 said:
40.png
goout:
…who are people, not books.
Click to expand...
People who were eyewitnesses of Christ and the apostles and who’s “books” are considered divinely inspired.

I accept that the Gospel was supernaturally preached by the Apostles after Pentecost. That the early church believed the teaching of the Apostles to be divine revelation, whether it was by letter or in person.

I also believe the divine revelation ceased with the death of last living apostle. And that the only reliable source of the “divine revelation” we have are the Gospels and letters that were also considered divine and read in all the churches, even churches that were never visited or started by an apostle.
Click to expand...
So you believe that Christ gave human beings the authority to pass on the Gospel, but that gift is not durable and continuous.
You just questioned the integrity of scripture.
 
If you look at this discussion, it is circular. And that’s because the elements of revelation are in-separable. This very discussion makes the fact self evident.
The attempt to elevate any one of them does not work.
 
Last edited:
goout said:
You just questioned the integrity of scripture.
Click to expand...
Not really, because I also believe in the Sovereignty of God and that the Scriptures are considered Scriptures, not because men decided they were scripture but because God was faithful in preserving His Gospel in writing. It was God’s will that determined the books of the Bible. I have faith that God was correct in delivering His word to His people. If we have the wrong books of the Bible then we are all in a mess.

If God wasn’t sovereign over the formation of the Bible then the Bible is the opinion of men and not the Word of God.
 
Last edited:
lanman87 said:
and that the Scriptures are considered Scriptures, not because men decided they were scripture but because God was faithful in preserving His Gospel in writing
Click to expand...
Binding and loosing. Any authority the Church had is God given, and was before the Bible.
 
Sometimes it seems people don’t realize God’s in control.

God may have given authority to the church, but only He is still in control of what is bound on earth which is bound in heaven. If God did not authorize for something to be bound in heaven, it would not be bound in heaven.

You may be saying what is bound, but it’s because God used the Holy Spirit. When you opened your heart to the Holy Spirit you opened yourself to follow the will of God.
 
Julius_Caesar said:
At least one of those isms is out of the question in regards to the consistent hermeneutic of the Church.
Click to expand...
That’s right.

The double predestination and eternal security are somewhat minor issues compared to determining whether we believe in order to be born again or we are born again in order to believe.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top