Selection of Israel critic for US delegation to human rights forum raises concern

[YKohen]

From today’s news:

US counter-terror experts visit Israel

…Commander Richard Webb of the Los Angeles Police Department said, “The Israelis are considered world leaders and innovators in counter terrorism and security. My experiences in meeting with the various experts and leaders confirm they not only are experts, they are pragmatic and collaborative. Equally as important they do their duties while vigilantly protecting human rights. I will take many lessons I learned back to Los Angeles. I observed several new techniques for security operations including multilevel security measures at an international airport.”…

And see these too:

Israeli-made Plasan armor saves United States soldiers’ lives in Iraq and Afghanistan

armyrecognition.com/weapons_defence_industry_military_technology_uk/israeli-made_plasan_armor_saves_united_states_soldiers_lives_in_iraq_and_afghanistan.html

U.S. military employs Israeli technology in Iraq war

usatoday.com/tech/world/iraq/2003-03-24-israel-tech_x.htm

Israel’s War Drill Offers Lessons for Guard

army.mil/article/8773/israels-war-drill-offers-lessons-for-guard/

US-Israeli collaboration enhances communications and electronic capabilities

army.mil/article/53329/us-israeli-collaboration-enhances-communications-and-electronic-capabilities/

USAREUR Units Participate in Juniper Cobra 2007

Nearly five hundred Soldiers, Sailors and Airman from the United States’ European Command and the Israeli Defense Forces recently took part in a 10 day training exercise geared to hone their skills in joint missile defense tactics against a wide variety of aerial threats, to include missiles carrying nuclear and chemical weapons.

The biennial exercise, called Juniper Cobra, is the fourth such exercise held in the region since 2001…

army.mil/article/2349/usareur-units-participate-in-juniper-cobra-2007/

Motivating Soldiers: The Example of the Israeli Defense Forces

army.mil/professionalWriting/volumes/volume2/october_2004/10_04_4.html

Guard, Israeli Home Front Command trade experiences

army.mil/article/39808/guard-israeli-home-front-command-trade-experiences/

How Israel’s Defense Industry Can Help Save America

commentarymagazine.com/article/how-israels-defense-industry-can-help-save-america/

Israel: Information Operations Threats And Countermeasures

au.af.mil/info-ops/iosphere/08special/iosphere_special08_ben-ari.pdf

Israeli allies fly with U.S. forces at Red Flag

nellis.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123160032

The Role of the Israel Air Force in the Operational Doctrine of the Israel Defense Forces: Continuity and Change

airpower.maxwell.af.mil/airchronicles/cc/rodman.html

NewYork Army National Guard Officers Participate in National Guard, Israel Army Exercise

army.mil/article/43221/

 

[Ghosty]

Israel “antagonizes every other nation in the region” because it simply wishes to exist. I admit, however, the settlements are a thorny problem for peace negotiations. But why is it that so many self-proclaimed liberals, including some Reform Jews, find it so chic to be hypercritical of Israel and hold it to a standard they do not have for other countries?

What other countries build armed settlements outside their borders in land internationally recognized to belong to other people? If there are others, I’m unaware of them. I don’t think it’s a matter of holding Israel to a different standard, it’s that Israel stands alone in its actions in this regard.

Peace and God bless!

 

[YKohen]

What part of this is unclear?

"THE PALESTINIAN NATIONAL CHARTER" (Al-Mithaq Al-Kawmee Al-Philisteeni), Adopted in 1964 by the 1st Palestinian Conference

Article 24: This Organization does not exercise any territorial sovereignty over the West Bank in the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan, on the Gaza Strip or in the Himmah Area.​

Jews ALWAYS lived in Judea, Samaria, and Gaza. ALWAYS.

Well, obviously Jews lived here during Biblical times. We all know that.

If you look at the documents from the Cairo Geniza, dating back to the 9th century, you’ll find that there were Jews in Judea, Samaria, and Gaza.

If you look at travelers’ accounts from the Early Middle Ages, such as Nahmanides, Benjamin of Tudela, and a host of others, you’ll find that there were Jews in Judea, Samaria, and Gaza.

Rabbi Jechiel Ashkenazi, who was actually Sepharadi, purchased the Karite synagogue of Hebron in 1540 on behalf of the Sepharadi congregants.

If you read about Shabtai Tzvi, the false messiah of the 16th century, you’ll find that his “prophet” was Nathan of Gaza, where the center of his movement was located for a period.

In 1834, Hebron was taken by storm by Abraim Pasha, and given up to his soldiers for several days. Most of the Muslims fled to the surrounding hills, but the Jews couldn’t, and since they weren’t involved in any of the political feuds, they weren’t particularly worried (since they wouldn’t be viewed as rebels). When Abraim went to take Hebron, a petition was presented to him by the officers of the Jewish congregation in Jerusalem to protect the Jewish inhabitants of Hebron, which he promised to do; but still, five Jews were deliberately murdered, and all of their property that hadn’t been hidden was either stolen or destroyed. Only then, did Abraim place a guard around their quarter of the town, but it was too late. He wasn’t going to try and force his soldiers to give back the stolen booty. The Hebron Jewish community was impoverished- but they were still in Hebron.

In fact, except for the periods of 1929-1931 and 1936-1968, there has been a significant Jewish presence in Hebron SINCE BIBLICAL TIMES.

The ONLY period of time where there were no Jews in Judea, Samaria, and Gaza was between 1948-1967, when the Arabs ethnically-cleansed us from here.

Prof. Eugene Rostow, former US Undersecretary of State, a key author of UN Resolution 242, international law authority, Yale University:

"Israel has a stronger claim to the West Bank than any other nation or would-be nation [and] the same legal right to settle the West Bank, the Gaza strip and east Jerusalem as it has to settle Haifa or west Jerusalem."

And for details:

http://www.2nd-thoughts.org/id45.html

 

[SamH]

This has nothing to do with “kissing up to Netanyahu” or “Da Jooos start all teh warzz!!!” (hat tip, Vangaurdian), but I would say that I don’t want that type of anti-Semitic, 9/11 Trutherism representing our country at a human rights council.

IN WARSAW, no less??? C’mon!!!

And people wonder why the US relations with the rest of the world have become a shambles under Obama. Why not Mel Gibson? He seems to have all the qualifications and to top it off he also appears to have a drinking problem.

 

[scipio337]

What other countries build armed settlements outside their borders in land internationally recognized to belong to other people? If there are others, I’m unaware of them. I don’t think it’s a matter of holding Israel to a different standard, it’s that Israel stands alone in its actions in this regard.

Peace and God bless!

Are you kidding me? There are dozens of territorial disputes in the world today.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_territorial_disputes

But in your reference to Israel, I would say “The same country whose neighbors refuse its right to exist.”

 

[SamH]

What other countries build armed settlements outside their borders in land internationally recognized to belong to other people? If there are others, I’m unaware of them. I don’t think it’s a matter of holding Israel to a different standard, it’s that Israel stands alone in its actions in this regard.

Peace and God bless!

I have to wonder why people are so adamant to recognize a country that has never existed.

 

[YKohen]

I have to wonder why people are so adamant to recognize a country that has never existed.

Not only did they never exist, but even when they could have existed, they chose war and rejectionism instead.

 

[Matthew91]

I’m really astounded at what I am seeing in this thread. We are Christians, we are supposed to be standing up for what is right without showing partiality. I am against the use of violence, and would hope that one day peace can be achieved, but the anti-palestinian bias in this thread is disconcerting. Everyone talks about Israel’s right to exist, where did this right come from? Keep in mind what we are talking about here, we are talking about the right of foreign agents in the UN installing a government in the middle east, a government that was not reflective of the will of people already living there. And people blame the indigenous population for not recognizing the right to exist of this artificial government? Can you blame them!?

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you! imagine if you were kicked out of your home, became a refugee, and had people moving into where you used to live and setting up a government predicated on the notion that their ancestors lived there 2000 years ago. What kind of world would we be living in if this kind of action was acceptable, I take it everyone in the United States should be prepared to be kicked out of their homes and their lands taken by Native Americans under the same pretext. Of course there were some Jews always living in the area, but what a myth has been concocted if people would actually presume to say that most Israeli Jews were not migrants from Europe or descendants of such.

Jews and Muslims lived in peace in Palestine prior to the zionist movement, prior to the state of Israel, they lived together, side by side, as equals. Zionism drove a wedge between those good relations between Jew and Muslim that has been irreparably damaged.

I find this whole notion that Palestine is non existant or that the Palestinians are not a people, highly offensive. The Palestinian people deserved, and deserve autonomy, Britain had no right to control them as if they were a possession after the first World War, in fact Britain’s plan all along was to convert that land into a Jewish state. See the Balfour Declaration.

As a Christian I stand for peace and justice, and I stand with the oppressed rather than the oppressor. I stand with the Palestinian people.

 

[YKohen]

1. The Jews are the indigenous people here.
2. In terms of what was before the state of Israel, it was anything BUT idyllic:

1517: Safed pogrom: After having murdered the Ottoman governor, the mob turned upon the Jews and rampaged through the Jewish quarter. Many Jews were killed while others were wounded or had their property pillaged. According to one contemporary source, the Jews were “evicted from their homes, robbed and plundered, and they fled naked to the villages without any provisions.” Many subsequently fled the city.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1517_Safed_pogrom

1834: Jews (and Christians) massacred by Muslims in Jerusalem, Safed, and Hebron. See:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1834_Arab_revolt_in_Palestine

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safed_plunder

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1834_Hebron_pogrom

1857: Herman Melville writes of his visit to the Holy Land:

…Rode from Ramlah to Lydda. A robbery of a village near by, by party of Arabs, alarms the whole country. People travel in bands. We rode to Lydda in train of the Governor’s son. A mounted escort of some 30 men, all armed….

…The Jews dare not live outside walled towns or villages for fear of the malicious persecution of the Arabs & Turks….

• The Journals of Herman Melville (January, 1857)

andromeda.rutgers.edu/~ehrlich/361/melville_journals.html

1920 Arab Riots: There’s what happened in Jerusalem:

By 10:30 a.m. on April 4, 1920, 60,000–70,000 Arabs had already congregated in the city square, and groups of them had already been attacking Jews in the Old City’s alleys for over an hour; the Jews hid. Inflammatory anti-Zionist rhetoric was being delivered from the balcony of the Arab Club. One inciter was Hajj Amin al-Husayni; his uncle, the mayor, spoke from the municipal building’s balcony.

The editor of the newspaper Suriya al-Janubia (Southern Syria), Aref al-Aref, delivered his speech on horseback. The crowd shouted “Independence! Independence!” and “Palestine is our land, the Jews are our dogs!” Arab police joined in applause, and violence started. The Arab local population ransacked the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem. The Torath Chaim Yeshiva was raided, and Torah scrolls were torn and thrown on the floor, and the building then set alight. During the next three hours, 160 Jews were wounded other than an unknown number of Arabs.

Khalil al-Sakakini witnessed the eruption of violence in the Old City:

“[A] riot broke out, the people began to run about and stones were thrown at the Jews. The shops were closed and there were screams… I saw one Hebronite approach a Jewish shoeshine boy, who hid behind a sack in one of the wall’s comers next to Jaffa Gate, and take his box and beat him over the head. He screamed and began to run, his head bleeding and the Hebronite left him and returned to the procession… The riot reached its zenith. All shouted, “Muhammad’s religion was born with the sword”… I immediately walked to the municipal garden… my soul is nauseated and depressed by the madness of humankind.”

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1920_Nebi_Musa_riots#April_4.E2.80.937.2C_1920_in_the_Old_City

1929: Arab riots in Jerusalem, Hebron, Safed, and elsewhere. To put things in perspective, here is just 1 account of what happened in Hebron, where 67 Jews were massacred, women raped, the entire community pillaged, and every last Jew consequently ethnically cleansed:

“…the rabbis, Meir Kastel, 68 years old, and Tzvi Drabkin, 70 years old, and five other young men… were robbed, castrated, tortured and murdered… The baker, Noah Immerman was roasted alive on an oven, Rabbi Ya’akov Orlanski HaCohen… was found… praying… they took his brain from his skull and his wife’s intestines were crushed… the pharmacist, Ben-Tzion Gershon, lame, unable to move, who served in Hebron for 40 years, kindly assisting many Arabs, they cut off his nose and fingers, killed him, raped his daughter and murdered her with awful torture. The teacher Dubkinov and Yitzhak Abushdid were strangled with a rope… six synagogues… including 64 Torah scrolls, many of them ancient, from the Spanish exile, all were stolen and desecrated…”

israelnationalnews.com/article.php3?id=4310

To be continued…

 

[YKohen]

And Safed:

In Safed on 29 August, 18 Jews were killed (some sources say 20) and 80 wounded. The attackers looted and set fire to houses and killed Jewish inhabitants. The main Jewish street was looted and burned. −

The Shaw report stated:

“At about 5:15 pm, on the 29th of August, Arab mobs attacked the Jewish ghetto in Safed…in the course of which some 45 Jews were killed or wounded, several Jewish houses and shops were set on fire, and there was a repetition of the wanton destruction which had been so prominent a feature of the attack at Hebron.”

An eyewitness describing the pogrom that took place in Safed, perpetrated by Arabs from Safed and local villages, armed with weapons and kerosene tins. He observed mutilated and burned bodies of victims and the burnt body of a woman tied to a window. Several people were brutally killed. A schoolteacher, wife, and mother and a lawyer, were cut to pieces with knives and the attackers entered an orphanage and smashed children’s heads and cut off their hands. Another victim was stabbed repeatedly and trampled to death.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_Palestine_riots#Safed_massacre.2C_29_August

David Hacohen was a resident of Safed and witnessed the aftermath of the Safed pogrom. He documented his observations in his diary.

"We set out on Saturday morning. . . I could not believe my eyes. . . I met some of the town’s Jewish elders, who fell on my neck weeping bitterly. We went down alleys and steps to the old town. Inside the houses I saw the mutilated and burned bodies of the victims of the massacre, and the burned body of a woman tied to the grille of a window. Going from house to house, I counted ten bodies that had not yet been collected. I saw the destruction and the signs of fire. Even in my grimmest thoughts I had not imagined that this was how I would find Safed where “calm prevailed.”

The local Jews gave me a detailed description of how the tragedy had started. The pogrom began on the afternoon of Thursday, August 29, and was carried out by Arabs from Safed and from the nearby villages, armed with weapons and tins of kerosene. Advancing on the street of the Sefardi Jews from Kfar Meron and Ein Zeitim, they looted and set fire to houses, urging each other on to continue with the killing. They slaughtered the schoolteacher, Aphriat, together with his wife and mother, and cut the lawyer, Toledano, to pieces with their knives. Bursting into the orphanages, they smashed the children’s heads and cut off their hands. I myself saw the victims. Yitshak Mammon, a native of Safed who lived with an Arab family, was murdered with indescribable brutality: he was stabbed again and again, until his body became a bloody sieve, and then he was trampled to death. Throughout the whole pogrom the police did not fire a single shot."

books.google.co.uk/books?id=LDxPY1QvJWcC&pg=PA37&lpg=PA37&dq=david+hacohen+safed+pogrom&source=bl&ots=XivAJ_Mbex&sig=EOE2ksvobw6V-h1sYfHwbhFypMM&hl=en&sa=X&ei=GvyLT73fN-mv0QWEi93UCQ&ved=0CCcQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q&f=false

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_Safed_massacre#Personal_account

And now? Here is their “President” Abbas speaking recently:

"DON’T PRESENT TO US ‘THE JEWISH STATE’. WE WILL NEVER ACCEPT IT. WE WILL NEVER ACCEPT THESE SAYINGS.

youtube.com/watch?v=CdqoMKZaTxU&feature=player_embedded

Abbas vows: No room for Israelis in Palestinian state
By KHALED ABU TOAMEH
12/25/2010

jpost.com/MiddleEast/Article.aspx?id=200935

Abbas Zaki of Fatah Admits, “Wiping Out Israel Main Goal”

youtube.com/watch?v=eB9lkfcfKic

memritv.org/clip_transcript/en/3130.htm

PA Religious Official Publicly Calls for Genocide of Jews

israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/151758#.TxO0WoF22So

youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=kDoV8ZL9Xkc

Nabil Shaath: We’ll Never Accept “Two-States for Two Peoples” Solution

youtube.com/watch?v=-CkImOGcHcw

We hear them loud and clear.

 

[YKohen]

The simple fact is that the would-have-been “Palestinians” could have had a state in peace, but chose war on MANY occasions- INSTEAD:

The would-have-been “Palestinians” would have had a state IN PEACE in 1937 with the Peel Plan, but they violently rejected it.

They would have had a state IN PEACE in 1939 with the MacDonald White Paper, but they violently rejected it (and Jews would have even been restricted from BUYING land from Arabs).

They would have had a state IN PEACE in 1948 with UN 181, but they violently rejected it (and actually claimed that the UN had no such mandate!).

They could have had a state IN PEACE in Judea, Samaria, and Gaza from 1948-1967 without any Jews- because the Arabs had ethnically cleansed every last one; but they violently rejected it. In fact, that’s exactly when they established Fatah (1959) and the PLO (1964).

They could have had a state IN PEACE after 1967, but instead, the entire Arab world issued the Khartoum Resolutions:

A. No peace with Israel
B. No recognition of Israel
C. No negotiations with Israel

They would have had a state IN PEACE in 2000 with the Oslo Accords, but they violently rejected it- as always.

And as soon as Israel pulled every single Israeli out of Gaza, what did the would-have-been “Palestinians” do? They immediately started shooting thousands of missiles into Israeli population centers, they elected Hamas (whose official platform calls for jihad with no negotiations until Israel is destroyed) to rule them, and they have dug tunnels crossing into the Negev to kill and kidnap Israelis.

And even afterwards, Ehud Olmert made his subsequent generous offer that went far beyond even that of Barak. The would-have-been “Palestinians” rejected it.

They had many chances.

They threw them all away because destroying Israel was higher on their priority list.

Oh well. That’s their choice.

 

[scipio337]

I’m really astounded at what I am seeing in this thread. …

I’m astounded by the blatant falsehoods I saw in your post.

When have non-Muslims “lived together, side by side, as equals” thoughout history, much less that region??

Jews were barred from the holiest site in Judaism. Not exactly what I would consider “equal”.

 

[YKohen]

I’m astounded by the blatant falsehoods I saw in your post.

When have non-Muslims “lived together, side by side, as equals” thoughout history, much less that region??

Jews were barred from the holiest site in Judaism. Not exactly what I would consider “equal”.

Jews were also barred from the Tomb of the Patriarchs on Hebron- where OUR ancestors, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Sarah, Rebecca, and Leah are buried.

The Muslims built a mosque on top of it and allowed Jews only to ascend to the 7th step outside.

 

[Ghosty]

Are you kidding me? There are dozens of territorial disputes in the world today.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_territorial_disputes

But in your reference to Israel, I would say “The same country whose neighbors refuse its right to exist.”

Territorial disputes are a different matter. I asked a pretty specific question. The few cases that come close, such as China and Tibet, do get protests and statements all the time. The difference is that China isn’t a major U.S. ally so the dissent over it doesn’t capture the imagination of the media. I see a lot more “Free Tibet” bumper stickers than “Free Palestine” ones, however.

As for claims that Palestine was never a country, that’s immaterial. There was never a country called Maya, or Sioux, or Aborigine either, but those are real people with real ancestral lands. Furthermore, the Palestinians are indeed the indigenous people of the land, and this has been shown time and time again by historical and genetic studies. They were the Jews who became Christian, and later Muslim, and stuck around the Holy Land. The Christian Palestinians are much more comfortable admitting this fact than the Muslim ones, but the genes don’t lie.

Peace and God bless!

 

[YKohen]

Why is it that such last names as al-Masri (the Egyptian,), al-Djazair (the Algerian), el-Mughrabi (the Moroccan), al-Yamani (the Yemenite) and even al-Afghani are so common among those claiming to be “Palestinians”?

Here’s their own answer:

youtube.com/watch?v=-ZtiUdl9Cd0

And when he says “families”, he means clans, which are much more than just a family. There could be thousands or more in a clan.

 

[SamH]

As for claims that Palestine was never a country, that’s immaterial.

Agreed, as are their claims.

 

[504Katrin]

The land of Israel was given to the people by G-d. The poster who said that there had only been a view Jews in that region must be wrong. I don’t recall the exact number but if I remember correctly there were hundreds of thousands of Jews out there together with Moses. So it can’t be that there were only a view Jews.

And also, to the article that was posted in OP,
(foxnews.com/politics/2012/10/17/watchdogs-oppose-appointment-israel-critic-al-marayati-to-us-delegation/ )
I’d like to comment that, if even the Executive Director of that Investigative Project of Terrorism questions the State Departments’ decision to include Al-Marayati, then I find that alarming. It’s also not only alarming that Al-Marayati would put the blame on Israel for the 9/11 attacks, but it’s also so far fetched; hence I find it very troublesome that someone like him is considered “a valued and highly credible interlocutor on issues affecting Muslim communities.”

In regards to Obama I would like to say that I must defend him. He’s probably always so busy that he can’t even read everything that he signs, and that he must simply trust his employees when he signs something. Now, during the election period, things are probably even worse, and he might only want to survive and then care for things afterward. This time must be terrible for politicians anyway as opponents will do anything to make you look bad.

 

[Ghosty]

Why is it that such last names as al-Masri (the Egyptian,), al-Djazair (the Algerian), el-Mughrabi (the Moroccan), al-Yamani (the Yemenite) and even al-Afghani are so common among those claiming to be “Palestinians”?

Here’s their own answer:

youtube.com/watch?v=-ZtiUdl9Cd0

And when he says “families”, he means clans, which are much more than just a family. There could be thousands or more in a clan.

You mean like the venerable Hebrew names Goldman, Deutsch, Wiener, and Franco? Names are not genes, they are easily changed with borders and intermarriage. The fact that Palestinian DNA falls within the spectrum between Ashkenazim and Yemeni Jews is all we really need to know.

Peace and God bless!

 

[SuperLuigi]

First Obama snubs Netanyahu, the Head of State of Israel, via appearing on a TV talk show instead of meeting with our ally, Israel.

Now we see this foxnews.com/politics/2012/10/17/watchdogs-oppose-appointment-israel-critic-al-marayati-to-us-delegation/

We can **now **see where this President Obama is heading regarding Israel, can’t we.

What else can we expect from a man that spent sooooo many years in The reverend Writght’s church -yes? The very same church that awarded the, IMHO, racist and anti Israel Louis Farrakhan ( see here: washingtonpost.com/national/on-faith/louis-farrakhan-blasts-jews-obama/2012/02/27/gIQAUwsZeR_story.html ) an award!

Correct me if I am wrong… do not the scriptures say God will Bless those that bless Israel and curse those that curse Israel?

Is this a path America wishes to trod?

Paging Chris Matthews and all liberals who don’t like mixing religion and government…

 

[SuperLuigi]

The land of Israel was given to the people by G-d. The poster who said that there had only been a view Jews in that region must be wrong. I don’t recall the exact number but if I remember correctly there were hundreds of thousands of Jews out there together with Moses. So it can’t be that there were only a view Jews.

And also, to the article that was posted in OP,
(foxnews.com/politics/2012/10/17/watchdogs-oppose-appointment-israel-critic-al-marayati-to-us-delegation/ )
I’d like to comment that, if even the Executive Director of that Investigative Project of Terrorism questions the State Departments’ decision to include Al-Marayati, then I find that alarming. It’s also not only alarming that Al-Marayati would put the blame on Israel for the 9/11 attacks, but it’s also so far fetched; hence I find it very troublesome that someone like him is considered “a valued and highly credible interlocutor on issues affecting Muslim communities.”

In regards to the president I would like to say that I must defend him. He’s probably always so busy that he can’t even read everything that he signs, and that he must simply trust his employees when he signs something. Now, during the election period, things are probably even worse, and he might only want to survive and then care for things afterward. This time must be terrible for politicians anyway as opponents will do anything to make you look bad.

This president has gone on vacation even more than Bush did, and we all know what a big stink that was.

The problem with America today is that they have a set of double standards in the major media and among the left-wing base that is skin-deep with the president on many levels and the myth that his running mate is average and honest when in reality he’s spend his entire career in higher education or government.

This administration has done a terrible job, and a lot of us don’t have the luxury to “feel sorry” for them.