F
Friar_David_O.Carm
Guest
But abortion does just that.
It denies not only the freedom of choice, but the basic freedoms of Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness from the person that is killed while still in the womb.
- Status
It denies not only the freedom of choice, but the basic freedoms of Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness from the person that is killed while still in the womb.
M
martino
Guest
Do you actually believe that, “I believe abortion is murder, however I wouldn’t ever want to stop others from murdering…” is a legitimate position?
Surely you are kidding!
C
Catholic4aReasn
Guest
Apparently in our country the right to kill outweighs the right not to be killed.
In Christ,
Nancy
In Christ,
Nancy
S
Sherlock
Guest
Ron,
You wrote: “We have NO RIGHT to deny freedom of choice. If so we are no better than dictators in a foreign land.”
Then we can choose to murder others? How about slavery? How can you deny me my right to own a slave? (It’s still quite popular in Muslim countries, you know.) Can I choose to steal from you, since “thou shalt not steal”, is a religious law?
You need to logically demonstrate the connection between denying the right to murder another person, and being a being a dictator. Please provide this demonstration.
You wrote: “Has not our white man’s religion done enough harm in murdering thousands of American Indians and enslaving thousands of blacks for slavery.”
Time to hit the history books, Ron. Do you know how far back the institution of slavery goes? Here’s a hint: it’s much, much older than Christianity. Also, it is still practiced in Muslim countries. It was very popular in pagan countries. So, why do you put the blame for slavery onto Christianity? Please give me reasons for this, please.
Also, just how is Christianity to blame for killing Indians? Many of the first missionaries to the Indians (Fr. Hennepin, etc.) had very good relations with the various tribes. I seem to recall from my reading of history that the Indian Wars were fought by soldiers, not monks. What proof do you offer for your claims?
You wrote: “We have NO RIGHT to deny freedom of choice. If so we are no better than dictators in a foreign land.”
Then we can choose to murder others? How about slavery? How can you deny me my right to own a slave? (It’s still quite popular in Muslim countries, you know.) Can I choose to steal from you, since “thou shalt not steal”, is a religious law?
You need to logically demonstrate the connection between denying the right to murder another person, and being a being a dictator. Please provide this demonstration.
You wrote: “Has not our white man’s religion done enough harm in murdering thousands of American Indians and enslaving thousands of blacks for slavery.”
Time to hit the history books, Ron. Do you know how far back the institution of slavery goes? Here’s a hint: it’s much, much older than Christianity. Also, it is still practiced in Muslim countries. It was very popular in pagan countries. So, why do you put the blame for slavery onto Christianity? Please give me reasons for this, please.
Also, just how is Christianity to blame for killing Indians? Many of the first missionaries to the Indians (Fr. Hennepin, etc.) had very good relations with the various tribes. I seem to recall from my reading of history that the Indian Wars were fought by soldiers, not monks. What proof do you offer for your claims?
R
RichT
Guest
How about the fact that Kerry is nothing more than a hypocrite? A Flip Flopper! Whether this is a religious issue or not, he has made it very clear that he says one thing but means another. If he had any decency about him, he would publicly abstain from receiving Communion. Instead he says these statements as though he is winning the favor of both Catholics and Pro-Choice advocats! Whether you see it or nor every politician brings his beliefs to the office with him. If they happen to be religious beliefs then so be it. President Bush is not afraid to stand up and state his view on abortion, but Kerry has only made it clear that he isn’t really sure what he believes. If a Crhistian man with strong Christian values is voted into the office of president, like it or not, he will make decisions based off those values. So in a sense, yes we are being subject to his religious beliefs. There is no way around it. Since that is thae case, I see no other choice but to vote for a man based on how close his values and ehtics are to mine. I want a president who can make a stance on something. Make a clear decision. Admit when they are wrong. S*#t or get off the pot!!!
W
wisdom_3_5
Guest
Saw this link in another thread. It answers your question
catholicleague.org/04press_releases/quarter4/041014_kerry.htm
catholicleague.org/04press_releases/quarter4/041014_kerry.htm
J
JimG
Guest
Pro-abortionists like to style abortion as a “religious issue” to relegate it to just the realm of religion.
But abortion is and has always been a public policy issue. Before Roe v Wade, every State legislature, elected by the people, enacted laws relating to regulation of abortion.
It was not until 1973 that the supreme court tried to take it out of the public policy arena. They did this by “discovering” a constitutional right to abortion that had gone unnoticed since the founding of the republic; but there it was, lying hidden in the penumbras of the document. In doing so, they thought they would take it out of the public policy arena. Not so. They only inflamed the debate, and transferred it to the nomination of judges, since the issue itself could no longer be debated in the legislatures.
Murder, rape, theft, lying, are all “religious” issues, as is the regulation of marriage. Does that mean that they are not also matters of public policy that may be debated and regulated by Congress? Of course not.
Trinitarian dogma is not a public policy issue. But if Congress were to consider the national imposition of Shar’ia Law, well, that would certainly be a matter of public policy.
But abortion is and has always been a public policy issue. Before Roe v Wade, every State legislature, elected by the people, enacted laws relating to regulation of abortion.
It was not until 1973 that the supreme court tried to take it out of the public policy arena. They did this by “discovering” a constitutional right to abortion that had gone unnoticed since the founding of the republic; but there it was, lying hidden in the penumbras of the document. In doing so, they thought they would take it out of the public policy arena. Not so. They only inflamed the debate, and transferred it to the nomination of judges, since the issue itself could no longer be debated in the legislatures.
Murder, rape, theft, lying, are all “religious” issues, as is the regulation of marriage. Does that mean that they are not also matters of public policy that may be debated and regulated by Congress? Of course not.
Trinitarian dogma is not a public policy issue. But if Congress were to consider the national imposition of Shar’ia Law, well, that would certainly be a matter of public policy.
M
Maccabees
Guest
Pologomy and prostitution are purely relgious isssues as well both can be carried out by consenting adults but they are still banned and we are talking secondary moral issues here not murder. Abortion is murder of the unborn they have inalienalbe right to life. They have no say in their murder they must be protected. THis goes beyond relgiion my friend.
R
rarndt01
Guest
Well, I did ask for your opinions, but as always Catholic white people are born racists and against civil libeties. Don’t tell me about how pious you white people were when you enslaved our forefathers and owned wealthy estates in the south. My ancestors were raped and whipped by your Christian ethics. Thanks to Rev King we now have our freedom and have overcome your hate of us, calling us coons and niggers. We are now humans with dignity.
Tell me how you showed your Christian love when you slaughtered the American Indian, stole his land and looked for gold on sacred burial grounds. The white race has always been the beast who kills, mames and rapes. But soon God will bring judgement on this race and a heathen nation will reign over you and you will know what suffering really is.
During the crusades your race slaughtered millions in the name of religion. Where was the love of Christ then? You now gather in white churches and white neighborhoods, but we are growing and shall overcome. We will rule over you in the next generation. We will have our own people in office and you will no longer suppress those who differ from you. Whether in race, sexual preferance or religous culture. We will overcome the barbarian whites.
Ron from Ohio
Tell me how you showed your Christian love when you slaughtered the American Indian, stole his land and looked for gold on sacred burial grounds. The white race has always been the beast who kills, mames and rapes. But soon God will bring judgement on this race and a heathen nation will reign over you and you will know what suffering really is.
During the crusades your race slaughtered millions in the name of religion. Where was the love of Christ then? You now gather in white churches and white neighborhoods, but we are growing and shall overcome. We will rule over you in the next generation. We will have our own people in office and you will no longer suppress those who differ from you. Whether in race, sexual preferance or religous culture. We will overcome the barbarian whites.
Ron from Ohio
J
JimG
Guest
Just for the record, was Rev. Martin Luther King pro-abortion?
R
RichT
Guest
Well, alrighty then…
How did this conversation get to this?
D
davy39
Guest
Ron, It sounds like you are a closet racist yourself, calling all white people beasts, rapists, and murderers. I never owned slaves, I never stole the indians’ land, and never looked for gold on anybodys burial ground. How dare you put all people in one basket. You are doing the same thing you acuse everybody else of doing. Where is your love of your fellow human beings, whether white or black, or any other color? May God bless you and open your eyes to the good and the bad in ALL people.
J
JimG
Guest
Encouraging the killing of black children through abortion genocide is one of the most racist policies I know of. You might be interested in some of Star Parker’s writings.
A
AmyS
Guest
Great post…
I think the should look up how Margaret Sanger felt about blacks… In the city I work Planned Parenthood goes into black communties and gives them coupons for cheap abortions… Sounds racist to me.
M
Maccabees
Guest
The number one killer of black people today is the abotionist not the skinhead or the klan. Historically Dr King and even Rev jackson before his entrance into politcs were anti-abortion. The Catholic Church is not a white church it is universal is is the number one Christian denomination in Africa and the fasterst growing relgion in Africa. And the majority of Catholic adherents are in the americas not Europe. IT snumber one ethnicity is latin, its number two is black.
True it was the relgion of Europe for most of its history but they have denied their Christian heritage for some time now. In America most of the slaveholders where Protestants most Catholics immigrated here as poor peasants in the lat 1800’s and early 20th century. WE were not rich land owners. True in other parts of the world against the teaching of the bishop of Rome catholic countires did import and export slaves against church teachings. But that’s a whole new ball of wax
Here is an excellent webiste that every black american should read.
blackgenocide.org/
True it was the relgion of Europe for most of its history but they have denied their Christian heritage for some time now. In America most of the slaveholders where Protestants most Catholics immigrated here as poor peasants in the lat 1800’s and early 20th century. WE were not rich land owners. True in other parts of the world against the teaching of the bishop of Rome catholic countires did import and export slaves against church teachings. But that’s a whole new ball of wax
Here is an excellent webiste that every black american should read.
blackgenocide.org/
O
OhioBob
Guest
Methinks good old Ron from Ohio came in itching for a fight. I marvel at the way some people post a thread inviting discussion and then turn it into a diatribe on one issue or another.
In Ron’s case, I think it went a bit deeper than that. And his profile claims that he is Catholic. Sad.
We should pray that he finds peace.
S
Sherlock
Guest
Ron was offensive, racist, ill-informed and did not have a grasp of the English language----the perfect Kerry supporter!
T
TobyLue
Guest
Ron
I was born in 1942 also, on Jan 4, I am retired and also a Catholic. But, I think you are very, very misinformed and its sad that at 62 you still lack wisdom. I do not doubt that you experienced racism. I’m not black but I also experienced racism as a child, but never from the Catholic Church. My parents taught me to better myself and not look at other peoples color. If others treated me wrong, to let God handle them. It seems like that is something you have not been able to get go of. The past cannot be undone and we must learn from it. However, to hold on to it and accuse others in this thread of racism, and using the “c” and “n” words, which they never did (you did), is lack of judgment and wisdom. People are not born racist. It’s a choice they exercise with their free will God has given them. I have not seen anybody, in giving you their opinions, act “more pious than thou” as you have accused them.
You also need to brush up in you history. How were your ancestors enslaved? Who caught them and handed them over to the “whites”? Why don’t you turn some of your anger towards some of your ancestors who caught men from other tribes and sold them? But again, that is in the past. There is nothing that can be done about it. I worked with many blacks, whites, and Latinos for many years and never, never was there any racism.
Again you need to brush up on your history regarding the crusades. “Millions” killed?
That is a gross exaggeration.
You quote
I think an apology and asking for forgiveness is due to those you have falsely accused.
I was born in 1942 also, on Jan 4, I am retired and also a Catholic. But, I think you are very, very misinformed and its sad that at 62 you still lack wisdom. I do not doubt that you experienced racism. I’m not black but I also experienced racism as a child, but never from the Catholic Church. My parents taught me to better myself and not look at other peoples color. If others treated me wrong, to let God handle them. It seems like that is something you have not been able to get go of. The past cannot be undone and we must learn from it. However, to hold on to it and accuse others in this thread of racism, and using the “c” and “n” words, which they never did (you did), is lack of judgment and wisdom. People are not born racist. It’s a choice they exercise with their free will God has given them. I have not seen anybody, in giving you their opinions, act “more pious than thou” as you have accused them.
You also need to brush up in you history. How were your ancestors enslaved? Who caught them and handed them over to the “whites”? Why don’t you turn some of your anger towards some of your ancestors who caught men from other tribes and sold them? But again, that is in the past. There is nothing that can be done about it. I worked with many blacks, whites, and Latinos for many years and never, never was there any racism.
Again you need to brush up on your history regarding the crusades. “Millions” killed?
That is a gross exaggeration.You quote
Now you tell me, who is being the racist? Who is looking forward to having revenge? Is that what you have learned in the Catholic Church that you attend? Is your entire congregation black even the priest? If that is what you are being taught, I would go outside and take a look at the sign in front of the church to see if it is really Catholic or even Christian for that matter. .
I think an apology and asking for forgiveness is due to those you have falsely accused.
F
Friar_David_O.Carm
Guest
This is a widely held and widely promoted lie.
The enslavement of the people in Africa started when certain tribes there took prisoners instead of killing off their enemy tribes. They then took these prisoners and sold them into slavery. So the enslavement was done by other Africans not white people.
M
mlchance
Guest
This isn’t necessarily true. The nature of slavery in African societies changed radically after trade with the Portugese became commonplace. The increase in demand for slaves in Europe and later in the Spanish and Portugese colonies in North and South America led to a radical increase in kidnaping by slave-trader gangs composed of both Europeans and Africans who existed solely for the purpose of capture Africans for sale.
Prior to this, most slaves in African societies were either criminals or prisoners of war. In both cases, slavery was often for only a fixed period of time. It is contact with Europeans that led to the development of chattel slavery of Africans.
Of course, none of this means that a single person alive today is either the least bit guilty or the least bit victimized by crimes that occured 200 years ago.
In the case of the U.S. in particular, we in this nation have paid for the crime of slavery with the blood of 500,000 Americans killed during the Civil War. Few nations have ever exacted such a horrible, self-inflicted toll on themselves while eradicating a great social evil.
– Mark L. Chance.
- Status