Sen. Kerry and his abortion position

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rarndt01:
Well, I did ask for your opinions, but as always Catholic white people are born racists and against civil libeties. Don’t tell me about how pious you white people were when you enslaved our forefathers and owned wealthy estates in the south. My ancestors were raped and whipped by your Christian ethics. Thanks to Rev King we now have our freedom and have overcome your hate of us, calling us coons and niggers. We are now humans with dignity.

Tell me how you showed your Christian love when you slaughtered the American Indian, stole his land and looked for gold on sacred burial grounds. The white race has always been the beast who kills, mames and rapes. But soon God will bring judgement on this race and a heathen nation will reign over you and you will know what suffering really is.

During the crusades your race slaughtered millions in the name of religion. Where was the love of Christ then? You now gather in white churches and white neighborhoods, but we are growing and shall overcome. We will rule over you in the next generation. We will have our own people in office and you will no longer suppress those who differ from you. Whether in race, sexual preferance or religous culture. We will overcome the barbarian whites.

Ron from Ohio
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Ron,

I’m a white guy from Canada, and I think you have some valid points, that is to say, I think this society and the *various *white races are in decline, but not for the reasons you cite.

The primary reasons are abortion and contraception. You may find it humourous when you realize that through mostly selfishness we have been non-breeding ourselves out of existence. Give it a few decades, maybe not in your life-time or mine but the world that you wish for will be here. The only way that the white races will survive is to bite the economic bullet and begin to breed like rabbits for fifty to a hundred years.

But that won’t happen. We are conditioned to the softness of the life-style we live and eventually even the most ardent anti-immigration types will realize that in order to pay for our lifestyle we need massive immigration to do the work to pay for the aging white population. There aren’t enough white immigrants in the world to save this economy. Eventually, this continent will definitely be a darker shade.

If it gives you satisfaction to pay out vengeance on the remaining white people, so be it. It will not help your cause with God Almighty, I don’t think. I was just on a thread talking about martyrdom for Christ. Perhaps you are right, and we will have the choice to die for our faith.

I would warn you however, in order to violate the civil rights of white people you will have to lose the concept of civil rights that you seem to hold in high esteem. And you will find that it wasn’t Christ that taught people to enslave others. In fact, right now in Sudan it is Muslims enslaving Christians, all of them black, by the way. So maybe it has nothing to do with race or religion, but rather human evil. Evil that the Christian, Martin Luther King preached against.

As to the crusades, you will be happy to know that you are a victim there as well. A victim of absolute falsehood, stories concocted by haters of the Catholic Church. Read some history. In fact, if you read some history much of your hatred might dissipate. And, you may find that by reading history you may avoid repeating it. But not if your hatred continues to consume you.
 

  1. *]If abortion is murder then a woman who has an abortion by definition is a murderer or an accomplice to murder.
    *]Additionally a women getting an abortion must find a clinic, make and appointment usually go through some consoling all before having the abortion - which, by definition is premeditation.

    In other words. Abortion would become First Degree Murder in all States which is punishable by death in many States. So if abortion is made illegal based on the arguement that it is murder are we ready to see the execution of a woman who has had one?
 
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cspargur:

  1. *]If abortion is murder then a woman who has an abortion by definition is a murderer or an accomplice to murder.
    *]Additionally a women getting an abortion must find a clinic, make and appointment usually go through some consoling all before having the abortion - which, by definition is premeditation.

    In other words. Abortion would become First Degree Murder in all States which is punishable by death in many States. So if abortion is made illegal based on the arguement that it is murder are we ready to see the execution of a woman who has had one?
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  1. Your point is?

    That argument sounds a bit like the one that suggests that all men that have impregnated a woman who ultimately choses abortion should be tried as rapists.

    Why you ask? It is based on the argument that women should have control over their own reproduction. Thus, the only time a woman would need an abortion is if she did not have control of her reproduction prior to the pregnancy. That is by definition, rape.

    Either scenario, would certainly change the culture in a hurry.
 
I am so glad to meet another christian who gets it !! Thank you ! If legislating God worked everyone who was converted by the sword would have met and fell in love with God …that didnt happen then and will not happen now… God gave us a choice,He siad here is life and here is death , choose one. If God gives us sin filled creatures a choice who are we to say other people must not have a choice because WE just KNOW whats right for them ? I agree with Him that gay acts are not what He would have for us . I also agree with Him that killing babies is wrong. I have been involved in the gay lifestyle and there is nothing short of God Himself that changes those behaviors…and by the way …did you know that the same word used about gay acts (abomination) is used of lying ? when was the last time YOU told someone you were “fine” and it wasnt true ? thanks for letting me shoot off my mouth …yours in Him paidfor
 
wow ! I posted before I read what the rest of you people had to say…and I must agree that if a person is willing to stand up and say the have a belief they should be willing to vote that way…but voting that way and legislating morality is two different things…Why oh Why do we think we sholdn’t use Jesus as our example ? He did not condemn anyone willing to come to him now did He ? If my Lord isn’t willing to condemn them provided they turn from their sin , then who am I to condemn them? Ah ha ! you say, but they haven’t turned! That may very well be …for now…when He sees fit to introduce Himself to them we shall see what the outcome is…remember His timing is not ours…Yes we should feel strongly about this issue . Yes we should vote agianst it . Yes we should stand for Gods way but don’t you think we should do it IN His way ?
yours in Him
 
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paidfor:
I am so glad to meet another christian who gets it !! Thank you !
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Every Christian on the thread, both pro and con, thanks you for the compliment. 😃
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paidfor:
If legislating God worked everyone who was converted by the sword would have met and fell in love with God
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Assuming that your argument is for Kerry (or against outlawing abortion, or at least ignoring it) it seems that the error in your argument is the presupposition that abortion is purely a religious issue. Clearly it is not. The right to life is based in natural law and intrinsic rights as well. We have every obligation to try and outlaw abortion just as we have every obligation to stop the extermination of the Jews or the murder of innocents. To do any less is to accept anarchy.
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paidfor:
who are we to say other people must not have a choice because WE just KNOW whats right for them ?
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I think this argument falls for the confused concept of “choice” as freedom. Freedom is the ability to do what is right. License (or “choice” as it has been marketed to the masses in this case) is the ability to do what is wrong. The Law is an imperfect attempt to limit license and immorality and promote freedom and morality. Our political leaders have every obligation to promote the general welfare. Allowing, indeed, promoting, immorality and license does not promote the general welfare of society. A blind eye of an American citizen to abortion is no different than the blind eye of a German citizen who supported Hitler because he made the trains run on time. “Who am I to say other people must not kill Jews because I just KNOW what’s best for them?” Outlawing the license to kill does not necessarily save the murderer, but it surely saves those that would have been murdered otherwise.
 
Paidfor,

You wrote: " He did not condemn anyone willing to come to him now did He ? If my Lord isn’t willing to condemn them provided they turn from their sin , then who am I to condemn them?"

I notice that people are fond of saying things like this whenever it comes down to—oh horror of horrors!—taking a stand against evil. Actually, Our Lord did a fair amount of chastising: for instance, those who lead young ones astray would be better off having a millstone tied to their necks. The Pharisees were castigated as hypocrites, and called “whited sepulchers”. The woman caught in adultery was told to sin no more. Jeus was not afraid to call evil, evil and sin, sin. No, we are not to judge persons (God does that), but we are certainly called to judge actions, especially our own. Are you pro-choice regarding the murder of adults? Are you pro-choice regarding slavery? Theft? If you are against the murder of adults, then when does that adult life begin? Are you pro-choice regarding the killing of a month-old infant? Look: life is a continuum. It has a beginning and an end. Between those points it is a LIFE, and if you don’t have respect for its value, then at least be brave enough to lay your cards on the table and say that some life is better than other life. Don’t hide behind this “oh, who are we to say? I just know Jesus wouldn’t lift a finger” garbage.
 
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rarndt01:
I’m just saying, he has a point. Does a political candidate, if elected, have the right to IMPOSE his religious beliefs on ALL AMERICANS who do not feel the same as he does? That would be dictorial and not democratic.
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By allowing abortion (and tax payer money to fund abortion if Kerry allows it), the gov’t IS legislating morality. The gov’t is saying abortion is OK.

—KCT
 
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paidfor:
wow ! I posted before I read what the rest of you people had to say…and I must agree that if a person is willing to stand up and say the have a belief they should be willing to vote that way…but voting that way and legislating morality is two different things…Why oh Why do we think we sholdn’t use Jesus as our example ? He did not condemn anyone willing to come to him now did He ? If my Lord isn’t willing to condemn them provided they turn from their sin , then who am I to condemn them? Ah ha ! you say, but they haven’t turned! That may very well be …for now…when He sees fit to introduce Himself to them we shall see what the outcome is…remember His timing is not ours…Yes we should feel strongly about this issue . Yes we should vote agianst it . Yes we should stand for Gods way but don’t you think we should do it IN His way ?

yours in Him
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In the abortion issue there is one further problem. An innocent person has to die for every time someone commits that sin. So the issue is more urgent, and contrary to the “personal morality” position of the pro-abortion advocates.
 
Assuming that your argument is for Kerry (or against outlawing abortion, or at least ignoring it) it seems that the error in your argument is the presupposition that abortion is purely a religious issue. Clearly it is not. The right to life is based in natural law and intrinsic rights as well. We have every obligation to try and outlaw abortion just as we have every obligation to stop the extermination of the Jews or the murder of innocents. To do any less is to accept anarchy.

Before you burn me at the stake lets get straight what I said and what you think I MIGHT have MENT by it…lets not assume things that are not there…just because I believe you can’t legislate God does not mean I don’t think we are called to make a difference and to vote agianst mass murders and gay " marriages" and all the other things we do agianst Him. Nor am I hiding behind the God is Love and would never say boo idea… what I DID say was that He doesnt condemn people . It takes the Spirit to convict someone of sin and no amount of yelling on our parts is going to sway them unless He is moveing thier hearts. I see all around me people up in arms about these issues and the voteing for leadership that is consistant with the beliefs we hold yet I don’t see nearly that kind of “in yer face” reaching out into our neighborhoods , into the homes where these decisions are being made,into the lives laid bare from the aftermath of murder…I want there to be no abortion clinics I want planned parenthood put out of business…to that end I believe its PEOPLE we need to reach . Our job is to love and educate people about God and His ways HIS job is to convict of sin …lets all go out and talk to one person each day this week about the choices they are making and where it is leading them. Lets not chicken out because they might shut us down. Lets pray for someone today who is lost and afraid and maybe has a bumpersticker that says “save me from your followers” Lets not just vote our hearts lets touch lives with our hearts! Yours in Him
 
Ron, I ran across some of your posts and would love to set up a chance to email more directly. I tried to email you but found that you have blocked any email attempts. First I would like to address the subject of receiving Bread and Wine. I am 50 years old and when I went to Church in the 60’s and 70’s all we had was the Body of Christ. When I returned to the Church 2 years ago it took alittle while to get used to receiving the Precious Blood, which I now do every time I go to Mass. As it was explained to me it is preferred to receive both species but it is not necessary since the Presence of Jesus Christ is totally evident in “both”. That is why the Priest breaks off a small piece to add it to the wine to show that Jesus is present in both the Bread and the Wine. This way someone can receive either one if by chance they are unable to receive say the Body if they are unable to eat wheat, then they can recieve the Precious Blood. This is also why it is not necessary to gulp a big portion of the Precious Blood because only a drop is needed.

I also saw some mention of racism. I cannot speak of every church but while I was going to a Catholic High School in Arkansas in the late 60’s and early 70’s I never saw evidence of racism. I knew it existed but I did not see it fully until I left home and moved to Little Rock in 1972, but I would like to point out that I never saw it in the Catholic Church. It was also during this time that the war in Vietnam ended and Fort Smith, Arkansas is where alot of the Vietnamese were sent. The local Catholic churches welcomed the refugees with open arms.

Again, I would welcome email contact and maybe a couple of old guys could toss around some points of interest.

In Christ
Mike
 
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