Senate sets states' rights 'crimes' (Federal agents would be guilty of Class 6 felony)

[a_priori]

“PHOENIX – Setting the stage for a fight, the Arizona Senate voted Thursday to make felons of officials who try to enforce federal laws on what lawmakers here consider to be matters of strictly local concern. SB1178 spells out that all service performed in the state, and all goods grown or made here for consumption within Arizona “are not subject to the authority of Congress under its constitutional power to regulate commerce among the several states.” State Sen. Sylvia Allen, R-Snowflake, said that includes everything from wheat and lettuce to toilets, light bulbs and guns if manufactured, sold and used entirely within Arizona. But the measure, approved on a 21-8 vote, is more than a statement of protest. It says that any federal agent or employee who attempts to enforce any federal act, rule or regulation over these activities is guilty of a Class 6 felony. While the measure does not seek jail time, it allows fines of up to $2,000. And any state official that tries to enforce a federal law could face a $500 fine.”

azdailysun.com/news/state-and-regional/article_f93ab8d8-dc5b-56ff-b3ea-d2d98274fdd6.html

The Federal government has become the new “Massachusetts Bay Colony/Puritans” and the states need to turn into the new “Roger Williams/Anne Hutchinson.”

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Williams_%28theologian%29

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anne_Hutchinson

 

[Not_Sure_1]

finally, a state that is willing to excercise its sovereignty

 

[kenofken]

It used to just be fringe nutjobs in armed desert compounds who would declare themselves independent republics. Now I see it’s caught on at the state level. Well, if that’s what they want, I think it’s only fair to give them their full measure of independence. Since they’ve declared themselves free of federal jurisdiction, they won’t be needing ANY federal dollars for anything, unless the State Department decides that aid advances some interest of our country.

Arizonans will have to be considered foreign nationals, so they’ll need passports to go anywhere else in the 49 states, and entry visas, unless we can negotiate some sort of reciprocity like we do with Canadians and Europeans. We’ll need to set import duties for anything produced in Arizona for sale outside any of its borders, and until we can establish proper channels of diplomatic relations and embassies, thinks like airline travel between this new country and ours will probably have to be put on hold. They’ll need to figure out a currency of their own and hope it holds up on the international exchange, although some foreign countries do in fact use the U.S. dollar. I’m sure something can be arranged.

They’ll also have to arrange for their own national defense, minus all of the U.S. assets now based there. Needless to say we won’t be allowing a nuclear armed foreign power in the middle of the contiguous United States. They might also want to develop their own intelligence agencies for things like terror threats, because we’ll have to be circumspect about what we share with our new neighbor, even if they are an ally. They’ll also have to negotiate to buy up all of the federal assets like dams, at fair market value, or else negotiate treaties for things like water and power produced by them. They’ll have to arrange their own border security as ICE doesn’t defend the borders of other nations, but that’s just as well. They never thought much of our border protection anyway. I’m sure the state police and border vigilantes are up to the task of dealing with Mexican drug gangs by themselves. Of course they’ll have to be careful about the vigilante thing, or they’ll risk of landing on the list of countries sponsoring terror, in which case we’d have to freeze all their assets in U.S. banks and bar sales of all military and dual use technologies.

Yes, if Arizona wants their independence, we ought to give them their full measure of it!

 

[a_priori]

I think we should exhume the Founding Fathers, wrap them in copper, attach a few magnets and connect them to the grid. They are surely spinning in their graves these days so we might as well harness the electricity.

 

[TMC]

Doesn’t Arizona have any real problems? If so, why does the legislature there seem to specialize in wasting its time with meaningless, crack-pot legislation?

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

Doesn’t Arizona have any real problems? If so, why does the legislature there seem to specialize in wasting its time with meaningless, crack-pot legislation?

Don’t be too hard on them. Consider where they live. So easy to get your brains fried in that terrible heat.

 

[estesbob]

What a bunch of idiots.

 

[NotCrazyDan]

It used to just be fringe nutjobs in armed desert compounds who would declare themselves independent republics. Now I see it’s caught on at the state level. Well, if that’s what they want, I think it’s only fair to give them their full measure of independence. Since they’ve declared themselves free of federal jurisdiction, they won’t be needing ANY federal dollars for anything, unless the State Department decides that aid advances some interest of our country.

Arizonans will have to be considered foreign nationals, so they’ll need passports to go anywhere else in the 49 states, and entry visas, unless we can negotiate some sort of reciprocity like we do with Canadians and Europeans. We’ll need to set import duties for anything produced in Arizona for sale outside any of its borders, and until we can establish proper channels of diplomatic relations and embassies, thinks like airline travel between this new country and ours will probably have to be put on hold. They’ll need to figure out a currency of their own and hope it holds up on the international exchange, although some foreign countries do in fact use the U.S. dollar. I’m sure something can be arranged.

They’ll also have to arrange for their own national defense, minus all of the U.S. assets now based there. Needless to say we won’t be allowing a nuclear armed foreign power in the middle of the contiguous United States. They might also want to develop their own intelligence agencies for things like terror threats, because we’ll have to be circumspect about what we share with our new neighbor, even if they are an ally. They’ll also have to negotiate to buy up all of the federal assets like dams, at fair market value, or else negotiate treaties for things like water and power produced by them. They’ll have to arrange their own border security as ICE doesn’t defend the borders of other nations, but that’s just as well. They never thought much of our border protection anyway. I’m sure the state police and border vigilantes are up to the task of dealing with Mexican drug gangs by themselves. Of course they’ll have to be careful about the vigilante thing, or they’ll risk of landing on the list of countries sponsoring terror, in which case we’d have to freeze all their assets in U.S. banks and bar sales of all military and dual use technologies.

Yes, if Arizona wants their independence, we ought to give them their full measure of it!

Of course, if they actually declared their independence, you’d probably be advocating open warfare to bring them back into the fold.

 

[kenofken]

Of course, if they actually declared their independence, you’d probably be advocating open warfare to bring them back into the fold.

Not at all. I’d let them go with my blessings, subject to all of the conditions I mentioned. Most of the quasi libertarians these days are rather like 15-year old kids who think they’re smart enough to tell their parents to sod off and declare their independence. They figure they don’t have to obey any of the rules or responsibilities, but they still feel entitled to live there rent free, have keys to the car and their trust fund. It doesn’t work that way, whether on the individual scale or larger. If Arizona thinks they can thumb their nose at federal law wherever it suits them, bully for them. I admire their moxy. But then that means they have to man up and take on everything that goes with true independence.

 

[a_priori]

Most of the quasi libertarians these days are rather like 15-year old kids who think they’re smart enough to tell their parents to sod off

I think your use of a “parental” analogy speaks volumes.

 

[NotCrazyDan]

I think your use of a “parental” analogy speaks volumes.

Indeed.

 

[AngryAtheist8]

“PHOENIX – Setting the stage for a fight, the Arizona Senate voted Thursday to make felons of officials who try to enforce federal laws on what lawmakers here consider to be matters of strictly local concern. SB1178 spells out that all service performed in the state, and all goods grown or made here for consumption within Arizona “are not subject to the authority of Congress under its constitutional power to regulate commerce among the several states.” State Sen. Sylvia Allen, R-Snowflake, said that includes everything from wheat and lettuce to toilets, light bulbs and guns if manufactured, sold and used entirely within Arizona. But the measure, approved on a 21-8 vote, is more than a statement of protest. It says that any federal agent or employee who attempts to enforce any federal act, rule or regulation over these activities is guilty of a Class 6 felony. While the measure does not seek jail time, it allows fines of up to $2,000. And any state official that tries to enforce a federal law could face a $500 fine.”

azdailysun.com/news/state-and-regional/article_f93ab8d8-dc5b-56ff-b3ea-d2d98274fdd6.html

The Federal government has become the new “Massachusetts Bay Colony/Puritans” and the states need to turn into the new “Roger Williams/Anne Hutchinson.”

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Williams_%28theologian%29

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anne_Hutchinson

As I recall we already had a conflict concerning states rights versus ability of the national government to enforce federal law here in the U.S. It was known as the Civil War, and the states rights advocates (the Confederacy and its soldiers) lost.

 

[a_priori]

As I recall we already had a conflict concerning states rights versus ability of the national government to enforce federal law here in the U.S. It was known as the Civil War, and the states rights advocates (the Confederacy and its soldiers) lost.

I don’t think there is an issue as inflammatory as slavery here. The Federal government will prevail over AZ of course. It was just nice to see a little push back from David against Goliath. The Federal government has consolidated its power and made enough people dependent so that the show’s over. The tipping point has been reached. Everyone who thinks the AZ mentality is moronic are prevailing anyway. You will get the world you want. Congrats.

 

[kenofken]

As I recall we already had a conflict concerning states rights versus ability of the national government to enforce federal law here in the U.S. It was known as the Civil War, and the states rights advocates (the Confederacy and its soldiers) lost.

The whole damn country lost. I’m 40 years old and we were still very much in the end stage of the healing process by the time I was born. It was a senseless slaughter of half a million plus human beings, but one that settled some very big questions about slavery and the exact boundaries of sovereignty in a federal union. Arizona’s threats to imprison fellow law enforcement officials for doing their job because of an adolescent snit over the Commerce Clause isn’t worth a skinned elbow, let alone a human life. If they want to play that game, I say let them. If some sawed off local prosecutor levies a $2,000 fine against a federal official for enforcing the law of the land, pay the fine and walk away. And then see to it that Arizona never gets another dime of federal money for highways, schools or anything else as long as that law is on the books. Let them do their victory dance over “independence” and hope that $2,000 holds them a good long while.

 

[kenofken]

I don’t think there is an issue as inflammatory as slavery here. The Federal government will prevail over AZ of course. It was just nice to see a little push back from David against Goliath. The Federal government has consolidated its power and made enough people dependent so that the show’s over. The tipping point has been reached. Everyone who thinks the AZ mentality is moronic are prevailing anyway. You will get the world you want. Congrats.

I don’t think Arizona is moronic because they’re frustrated with federal rules. They’re moronic in their response. I concur with them that federal regs are very often overreaching and absurd. I would go further than most by saying that something as large as drug prohibition is a senseless abuse of power. Agencies like the FDA hold us hostage to the highest prescription drug prices in the world and do almost nothing for either innovation or safety. They serve the interests of the largest drug companies.

On the other hand, I fail to see how regulations over leaf lettuce or light bulbs constitutes true oppression of the people of Arizona, and I have to think there’s some middle ground solution between foolish grandstanding threats to arrest federal officers and bitter capitulation to runaway federalism. Arizona still has seats in Congress, and Western governors are as capable of lobbying for regional interest as anyone else. Congress is packed with a majority who says they’re after small government. So much so that Obama is having to make concessions to that. If conservatives truly want small government, they ought to first ask their main political party why they gave the executive branch Soviet-style powers to read people’s mail, library records and email without warrants and designate almost anyone an “enemy combatant” bereft of the right to trial.

Finally, I would argue that there is very little in commerce anymore which doesn’t have some impact outside a state’s borders. Guns for example, like any other commodity, aren’t going to stay in local trade simply because a manufacturer or wholesaler intends it. Federal regulations on low flush toilets are silly on the one hand, but the underlying issue of water security is deadly serious. Those states now hold many millions more people than the natural resources are able to support. Water wastage can destroy either agriculture or residential living, or hydroelectricity to millions of people. And lightbulbs? Our lack of a sensible energy policy cost us trillions of dollars and thousands of lives overseas, and Arizona sure doesn’t pay all of that tab by themselves.

 

[a_priori]

I don’t think Arizona is moronic because they’re frustrated with federal rules. They’re moronic in their response. I concur with them that federal regs are very often overreaching and absurd. I would go further than most by saying that something as large as drug prohibition is a senseless abuse of power. Agencies like the FDA hold us hostage to the highest prescription drug prices in the world and do almost nothing for either innovation or safety. They serve the interests of the largest drug companies.

On the other hand, I fail to see how regulations over leaf lettuce or light bulbs constitutes true oppression of the people of Arizona, and I have to think there’s some middle ground solution between foolish grandstanding threats to arrest federal officers and bitter capitulation to runaway federalism. Arizona still has seats in Congress, and Western governors are as capable of lobbying for regional interest as anyone else. Congress is packed with a majority who says they’re after small government. So much so that Obama is having to make concessions to that. If conservatives truly want small government, they ought to first ask their main political party why they gave the executive branch Soviet-style powers to read people’s mail, library records and email without warrants and designate almost anyone an “enemy combatant” bereft of the right to trial.

Finally, I would argue that there is very little in commerce anymore which doesn’t have some impact outside a state’s borders. Guns for example, like any other commodity, aren’t going to stay in local trade simply because a manufacturer or wholesaler intends it. Federal regulations on low flush toilets are silly on the one hand, but the underlying issue of water security is deadly serious. Those states now hold many millions more people than the natural resources are able to support. Water wastage can destroy either agriculture or residential living, or hydroelectricity to millions of people. And lightbulbs? Our lack of a sensible energy policy cost us trillions of dollars and thousands of lives overseas, and Arizona sure doesn’t pay all of that tab by themselves.

I won’t argue that AZ didn’t reach a little too far. But their impulse to respond in this way didn’t come out of a vacuum. Want a strong Federal government? Then, as the song goes,
“every form of refuge has its price”. There are some out there that are feeling a little claustrophobic and this was their response. I understand them, although they did perhaps overreach a bit.

 

[Luigi_Daniele]

finally, a state that is willing to excercise its sovereignty

Quote!

 

[pnewton]

I don’t think Arizona is moronic because they’re frustrated with federal rules. They’re moronic in their response. I concur with them that federal regs are very often overreaching and absurd. I would go further than most by saying that something as large as drug prohibition is a senseless abuse of power.

Calling others morons is easy. However, if no one will ever stand against tyranny, then oppression will continue to increase. This law is not about imprisoning federal law enforcement officials, but rather bringing a long overdue Tenth Amendment challenge and setting constitutional boundries to the Commerce Clause, which federal officials think has no boundries. This will be the defining challenge of this century. We will see total centralization and all loss of subsidiarity in this country, or we will see a return to the original idea where a state is a legitimate political entity.

 

[gamewell45]

It used to just be fringe nutjobs in armed desert compounds who would declare themselves independent republics. Now I see it’s caught on at the state level. Well, if that’s what they want, I think it’s only fair to give them their full measure of independence. Since they’ve declared themselves free of federal jurisdiction, they won’t be needing ANY federal dollars for anything, unless the State Department decides that aid advances some interest of our country.

Arizonans will have to be considered foreign nationals, so they’ll need passports to go anywhere else in the 49 states, and entry visas, unless we can negotiate some sort of reciprocity like we do with Canadians and Europeans. We’ll need to set import duties for anything produced in Arizona for sale outside any of its borders, and until we can establish proper channels of diplomatic relations and embassies, thinks like airline travel between this new country and ours will probably have to be put on hold. They’ll need to figure out a currency of their own and hope it holds up on the international exchange, although some foreign countries do in fact use the U.S. dollar. I’m sure something can be arranged.

They’ll also have to arrange for their own national defense, minus all of the U.S. assets now based there. Needless to say we won’t be allowing a nuclear armed foreign power in the middle of the contiguous United States. They might also want to develop their own intelligence agencies for things like terror threats, because we’ll have to be circumspect about what we share with our new neighbor, even if they are an ally. They’ll also have to negotiate to buy up all of the federal assets like dams, at fair market value, or else negotiate treaties for things like water and power produced by them. They’ll have to arrange their own border security as ICE doesn’t defend the borders of other nations, but that’s just as well. They never thought much of our border protection anyway. I’m sure the state police and border vigilantes are up to the task of dealing with Mexican drug gangs by themselves. Of course they’ll have to be careful about the vigilante thing, or they’ll risk of landing on the list of countries sponsoring terror, in which case we’d have to freeze all their assets in U.S. banks and bar sales of all military and dual use technologies.

Yes, if Arizona wants their independence, we ought to give them their full measure of it!

At this stage, I’m tempted to sugest to the Feds that they give Arizona back to the Mexicans.

 

[EmperorNapoleon]

Calling others morons is easy. However, if no one will ever stand against tyranny, then oppression will continue to increase. This law is not about imprisoning federal law enforcement officials, but rather bringing a long overdue Tenth Amendment challenge and setting constitutional boundries to the Commerce Clause, which federal officials think has no boundries. This will be the defining challenge of this century. We will see total centralization and all loss of subsidiarity in this country, or we will see a return to the original idea where a state is a legitimate political entity.

If Arizona wants to play hardball then the Federal government should put it back in its place by denying all Federal grants and funding and removing the border patrol. Then we’ll just wait for Arizona to come crawling back into the Union.