Sensitive Question about marital act -adults only

[hurtingwife]

I have a very sensitive question to ask, and created a different username to ask about this.

Last night, while attempting to engage in the marital act with my husband, his body language reminded me forcibly of some pre-conversion times with my husband where he was less than loving. I began to experience an altered reality, as if I was viewing myself from outside myself and everything happening to me felt unreal. I started protecting myself, covering my private parts and shaking and pinning the covers over me. It was not a violent reaction in self-defense, more like I became absolutely paralyzed with fear and couldn’t make eye contact or move my body. I had repeated flashbacks of times where, because he was angry with me about not being as responsive as he would have liked, he used his “body” to punish me with painful “movements” before withdrawing and leaving the bed, and like the times when he requested sex so often that I had lacerations on my labia that wouldn’t heal without getting torn back open again. I was so afraid of being penetrated that I shut down entirely last night. My husband tried to draw me back in several times, but I became increasingly afraid. My body was still with him in the bed, but I was stiff as a board, and it felt like my mind had already gone to the place where I wanted to go to hide. He was very angry, maybe very hurt. He gave up and rolled over. I retreated and got dressed discreetly and then lay down, curled up on the far side of the bed. It took a long time before my sense of reality came back with a thump in my mind. All of a sudden, I could hear and see a bit better, and was so tired. I was afraid to go to sleep until I was sure that he was close to sleep, because I kept imagining him hitting me so I kep trying to protect myself, despite the fact that he has never hit me like that.
This morning, he tried leaving without even saying goodbye. He didn’t want me to get up to make him breakfast. I could tell he was so angry. I am concerned he will want to leave me. I expected to find a note telling me he is so angry he is considering divorce. I think I am still quite shell-shocked.

I don’t understand why this is happening again. I haven’t had this happen to me since conversion, but this was the worst it has ever been. I don’t understand why, if my husband is the one who committed these acts against me in our pre-conversion time, why does he get a free pass to enjoy the act, while I struggle with flashbacks. Plus, he was the one who liked porn, and he coerced me into watching and experimenting in our pre-conversion times, in addition to watching it alone, and he never has any flashbacks while I have flashbacks all the time.
I have confessed the porn use and the immoral sex acts, and I confess whenever I had trouble rejecting flashbacks. In fact, every time I go to confession, I am confessing to not rejecting the flashbacks immediately. Yet, I am still bearing the consequences of all of these sins. My husband has no fall-out whatsoever. And until last night, he hadn’t even had to put up with me having one of those episodes. Why am I still suffering? Why is he not? Why can’t I move on? I am going to alienate my husband if I don’t fix this.
Please help me understand what is happening!

 

[Debora123]

Why don’t you have a conversation with him and tell him everything?

Beyond that, it sounds like you both need counseling.

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

I’m so sorry this has happened.

Sex is sometimes a funny thing for us women. It takes a little thing to put us off completely, and that is often an emotional issue, a memory, a word spoken in a wrong tone. It seems that you haven’t healed from things that took place in the past. Could you speak to someone about this? I know that people here always suggest counselling, but it could be what you need. And have you ever discussed these flashbacks with your husband? Why do you think he will leave you? I’m sure he feels hurt and rejected, but I doubt that he would leave because of this one incident.

 

[Debora123]

One more thing.

What he did to you in the past was very abusive. It is not surprising that you still feel traumatized. Like I said, you both need some serious counseling, and you also need to be completely open and honest with him about what’s going on.

I will pray for you.

 

[hurtingwife]

I have tried to talk about it before with him, but he looks so hurt and upset, like I am throwing it in his face. But I am still struggling a LOT. In fact, I never understood why people would call it “lovemaking”. It sounded like a pointless lie and I thought for sure that everyone knew the truth - that intercourse is not loving, but is just about lust and trying to make pleasure out of pain. It wasn’t until quite some time after our conversion that my husband and I had an encounter that actually seemed a bit loving, and it wasn’t until last month that I noticed that I actually felt loved in the act (one time). So many times I have been tempted to give up trying to enjoy the marital act, and just let him do his business and be done. I have struggled to realize that I am worth more than that. It is hard for me to accept that God actually wants me to feel loved and not used. So I try to talk to my husband about it, but every time I bring it up, he acts hurt. I am learning that I am going to have to figure this out on my own.

Am I sinning when I reject my husband’s advances like I did last night? I have always been terribly afraid of not giving my husband what he wants sexually, even if it included porn in the past. My Protestant upbringing prepared me to always obey with sex, and it wasn’t until I converted that I began to realize I could and should say no to porn and immoral sex acts. It was one of the things that made me feel excited to convert. Here was proof that I do not have to be nasty just because it is requested of me. But last night, I couldn’t stand the thought of being receptive when he was not acting loving. I was so afraid of being used and feeling dirty and worthless all over again. But if I need to go to confession for that, then I will. God knows that I have a cesspool of sexual sins that just keep churning and spewing out consequences in my life.

 

[Debora123]

I have tried to talk about it before with him, but he looks so hurt and upset, like I am throwing it in his face. But I am still struggling a LOT. In fact, I never understood why people would call it “lovemaking”. It sounded like a pointless lie and I thought for sure that everyone knew the truth - that intercourse is not loving, but is just about lust and trying to make pleasure out of pain. It wasn’t until quite some time after our conversion that my husband and I had an encounter that actually seemed a bit loving, and it wasn’t until last month that I noticed that I actually felt loved in the act (one time). So many times I have been tempted to give up trying to enjoy the marital act, and just let him do his business and be done. I have struggled to realize that I am worth more than that. It is hard for me to accept that God actually wants me to feel loved and not used. So I try to talk to my husband about it, but every time I bring it up, he acts hurt. I am learning that I am going to have to figure this out on my own.

No.

This is not something you can or should do “on your own.” And your perception of sex is very painful and sad.

Sounds like you have a lot of healing to do, and you’re going to need help. Can you schedule couples counseling sessions with your parish priest or deacon? At least one session per week. In the mean time, pick up a book called “The Good News About Sex and Marriage.” By Christopher West. It would be good if your husband could read it too.

Am I sinning when I reject my husband’s advances like I did last night?

No, because you did it out of being traumatized and emotionally bothered. However, if you don’t seek help and at least TRY to do what you can to help the situation, then yes… you would be sinning.

I have always been terribly afraid of not giving my husband what he wants sexually, even if it included porn in the past. My Protestant upbringing prepared me to always obey with sex, and it wasn’t until I converted that I began to realize I could and should say no to porn and immoral sex acts. It was one of the things that made me feel excited to convert. Here was proof that I do not have to be nasty just because it is requested of me. But last night, I couldn’t stand the thought of being receptive when he was not acting loving. I was so afraid of being used and feeling dirty and worthless all over again. But if I need to go to confession for that, then I will. God knows that I have a cesspool of sexual sins that just keep churning and spewing out consequences in my life.

Please please please see a priest or a good Christian counselor.

 

[hurtingwife]

I have read West’s book, thank you.

I was a virgin before my husband, so was he. But he had been exposed to porn at the age of 10, and I know he regularly masturbated. He became accustomed to daily release, either through me or masturbation. Now, he has chronic PE, because his brain and body were hard-wired for quick release. If I am to enjoy anything, I am on a short countdown. I am very near giving up. I do need to see a counselour, maybe even a priest or deacon. But in our small town, that would humiliate my husband. I may need to drive to the city.

If I had known what married sex was going to be like, I would likely have postponed marriage until after adequate maturation and counseling had happened for him, so he wouldn’t want to use me. This just really hurts.

 

[Debora123]

I have read West’s book, thank you.

I was a virgin before my husband, so was he. But he had been exposed to porn at the age of 10, and I know he regularly masturbated. He became accustomed to daily release, either through me or masturbation. Now, he has chronic PE, because his brain and body were hard-wired for quick release. If I am to enjoy anything, I am on a short countdown. I am very near giving up. I do need to see a counselour, maybe even a priest or deacon. But in our small town, that would humiliate my husband. I may need to drive to the city.

If I had known what married sex was going to be like, I would likely have postponed marriage until after adequate maturation and counseling had happened for him, so he wouldn’t want to use me. This just really hurts.

Sounds like he’s in need of some serious help too. Does he at least recognize that this is a problem? Is he willing to seek help for the sake of your marriage?

 

[runningdude]

The flashbacks are not a sin. These require healing, not confession. Do not beat yourself up over them.

Conversion to Catholicism is like baptism. Baptism washes away all previous sins, but we are still left with the damaged human nature caused by sin. This is caused "concupiscence ". You seem to bear scars from an emotional and physically rocky, possibly abusive, relationship.

You husband does not get a “free pass” for his past behavior. Part of confessing sins is a willingness to repair the damage caused by one’s actions; accepting responsibility when called upon. From your post, I cannot tell if this is the case with your husband or not, but it appears he not substantially changed his ways.

As your relationship appears abusive, I can only urge you to seek help from a doctor or psychologist to help you heal. The pain you feel is real, and you deserve help from someone with the competence to help you confront and address this pain and you current situation.

If you ever feel unsafe, call a trusted friend or even the police to come get you. There are abuse hotlines available that can help you find a doctor or other resources. If he hits you, which you say he hasn’t (yet), report him and have it documented. You don’t deserve it.

 

[mountee]

May I offer you my most sincere concern and I will pray for a resolution.
Memorare
REMEMBER, O most gracious Virgin Mary, that never was it known that anyone who fled to thy protection, implored thy help, or sought thy intercession was left unaided. Inspired with this confidence, I fly to thee, O Virgin of virgins, my Mother; to thee do I come; before thee I stand, sinful and sorrowful. O Mother of the Word Incarnate, despise not my petitions, but in thy mercy hear and answer me. Amen.

 

[hurtingwife]

Another question…
Because he has chronic PE, with no medical reasons (he has been thoroughly checked by a doctor), is it acceptable for me to touch myself during foreplay, to get very very ready in order to enjoy intercourse and enable a climax to occur? This might be crossing a line morally speaking, but he needs help. He is not typically able to help me with this, so I have helped but worried I was sinning.

 

[PaulfromIowa]

It sounds as though you have something like post traumatic stress disorder, PTSD. You need to seek professional counseling for yourself and marital counseling with your husband. Don’t feel guilty, it isn’t your fault.

The porn culture gives us, both men and women, distorted ideas about sexuality. I second the recommendation for Christopher West’s books:

christopherwest.com/

 

[hurtingwife]

The flashbacks are not a sin. These require healing, not confession. Do not beat yourself up over them.

Conversion to Catholicism is like baptism. Baptism washes away all previous sins, but we are still left with the damaged human nature caused by sin. This is caused "concupiscence ". You seem to bear scars from an emotional and physically rocky, possibly abusive, relationship.

You husband does not get a “free pass” for his past behavior. Part of confessing sins is a willingness to repair the damage caused by one’s actions; accepting responsibility when called upon. From your post, I cannot tell if this is the case with your husband or not, but it appears he not substantially changed his ways.

As your relationship appears abusive, I can only urge you to seek help from a doctor or psychologist to help you heal. The pain you feel is real, and you deserve help from someone with the competence to help you confront and address this pain and you current situation.

If you ever feel unsafe, call a trusted friend or even the police to come get you. There are abuse hotlines available that can help you find a doctor or other resources. If he hits you, which you say he hasn’t (yet), report him and have it documented. You don’t deserve it.

He has never hit me. The only thing he ever did (outside of being mean about and with sex) was throw something at me that hit my leg once 14 years ago. He has punched a few holes in walls though, but nothing like that since conversion. He has substantially changed his ways, but we only converted a few years ago. He has always been very upset with me for pointing out flaws, so for a long time (like till two years ago) I pretended to myself that he was faultless. It was easier than being unable to talk to him. If I could find a way to blame myself, then at least I could change something so I wouldn’t feel sad or used all the time. Did I mention I had a traumatic childhood? . Good grief, I sound like a walking wound.

The free pass I was referring to was the fact that he has always and still is able to really enjoy sexual encounters. I have increasingly had to psych myself up for it, and talk myself out of negative spirals.

Gosh, if he knew I that I was this open on an online forum, he would be mortified and humiliated. That is why I am posting under a different name. I just need some help TODAY, because I am afraid of seeing him again this evening. I am so ashamed.

 

[hurtingwife]

It sounds as though you have something like post traumatic stress disorder, PTSD. You need to seek professional counseling for yourself and marital counseling with your husband. Don’t feel guilty, it isn’t your fault.

The porn culture gives us, both men and women, distorted ideas about sexuality. I second the recommendation for Christopher West’s books:

christopherwest.com/

Yes I am pretty sure this is PTSD. Specifically, depersonalization and flashbacks.
I suspect this because I have PTSD due to my traumatic upbringing.
If I go back into counseling, though, I need a serious counselour, who will not give me the same trite non-helpful ideas for homework that my last counselour gave (for a different problem).
I have read both West’s and Popcak’s books. West was helpful, except he was ambiguous in a couple areas of concern regarding moral sexual acts. Popcak’s book was quite harmful for me personally. He put so much emphasis on being the perfect lover, which for the wife, he described as responsive and receptive to however the husband wanted to “love” her. After the number of ways my husband had used me and coerced me, that advice was like pouring gasoline on an already out of control fire. I felt nauseous about that and threw away both books after a few weeks of reading and thinking and talking and praying.

 

[Debora123]

Another question…
Because he has chronic PE, with no medical reasons (he has been thoroughly checked by a doctor), is it acceptable for me to touch myself during foreplay, to get very very ready in order to enjoy intercourse and enable a climax to occur? This might be crossing a line morally speaking, but he needs help. He is not typically able to help me with this, so I have helped but worried I was sinning.

No. Rest assured this is not a sin.

 

[hurtingwife]

Sounds like he’s in need of some serious help too. Does he at least recognize that this is a problem? Is he willing to seek help for the sake of your marriage?

As far as I know, he will not consider counseling. Two years ago, I gave him an ultimatum of sorts. I told him he must seek help, whether medical or psychological, because something was incredibly broken between us. He went to the doctor, who did a thorough checkup, and found nothing wrong. I asked him to lose the extra weight that he was advised to lose for his health and for our sake. He still has not lost any appreciable weight, nor has it been a priority for him. He would not get counseling, but he was willing to pay for me to go to the counselour last year for a different reason. He would likely pay for me to go again.

 

[hurtingwife]

No. Rest assured this is not a sin.

Thank you. That certainly eases my mind.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

I’m so sorry. Praying for you.

Some of your moral questions regarding what is permissible could be found in Germaine Grizes’ work, The Way of the Lord Jesus Christ, Volume 2. He is a very good theologian.

I definitely think that some outside help might be helpful. Some counseling for you and for him. Maybe Retrovaille.

Porn really corrupts human sexuality.

I’ve often thought that 2 virgins would have a very innocent/wholesome experience learning about sex together.

Your DH learned from porn, and learned that is how “to make love”. What he learned sex about is “fake”. It isn’t supposed to make you feel used, or in pain or punished somehow.
It isn’t supposed to be about you being a release for him.

I cannot imagine being hurt physically because of intercourse and not allowing you to heal. Has he ever expressed remorse? Has he asked you to forgive him because he hurt you?

I’m just saddened about what you wrote. Sorry if I’m rambling.

 

[FriendlyFace]

You’re not at fault, OP. But this sounds like something that is too big to be dealt with alone. You’re both suffering the consequences of your husband’s former porn use, and it sounds like you have been hurt a lot. Don’t give up, but I think it might really help you to talk to someone outside of the situation. It could help you get some perspective. I’m surprised your husband wasn’t really concerned about you. It’s sounds like you were totally panicking. Why didn’t he ask you what was wrong? Why didn’t he try to help or comfort you?

I also agree with anyone who said marriage counseling is in order. It may seem like he got off scott free with his porn addiction, but he didn’t. And it sounds like it’s still causing enormous harm in your marriage. But I think it might help if you had a Catholic counselor to help you guys out. I don’t think you have anything to feel guilty about, but take care of yourself okay?

 

[hurtingwife]

I’m so sorry. Praying for you.

Some of your moral questions regarding what is permissible could be found in Germaine Grizes’ work, The Way of the Lord Jesus Christ, Volume 2. He is a very good theologian.

I definitely think that some outside help might be helpful. Some counseling for you and for him. Maybe Retrovaille.

Porn really corrupts human sexuality.

I’ve often thought that 2 virgins would have a very innocent/wholesome experience learning about sex together.

Your DH learned from porn, and learned that is how “to make love”. What he learned sex about is “fake”. It isn’t supposed to make you feel used, or in pain or punished somehow.
It isn’t supposed to be about you being a release for him.

I cannot imagine being hurt physically because of intercourse and not allowing you to heal. Has he ever expressed remorse? Has he asked you to forgive him because he hurt you?

I’m just saddened about what you wrote. Sorry if I’m rambling.

Hmmm.
I dont recall if he ever asked for forgiveness. I still feel that it is just too bad for me that my body couldn’t handle it. It got to a point where the nurse had to tell me to stop having sex until I healed. Once I had a medical instruction, I was able to put him off for a week or so.
I think he feels embarrassed, but I am not sure if he actually understands what his actions have done to me. I just need to get over it, because he is not doing it anymore. Last night, he might have been expressing remorse, but my ears were not working. I couldn’t process what he was saying, because I was so far gone.
All I learned about sex was him acting out his fantasies on me and expecting me to behave like the porn stars. I began to associate pleasure with degrading myself.
Very early in our marriage, he grew bored with giving me affection. He would complain at me if I asked for caresses or cuddles. I could only ask if I was willing to go all the way to intercourse. Very quickly, because I was so starved for affection, I began trading sexual favors for a few minutes of affection. I am still horribly ashamed of what I did for back rubs or hair caresses.
I didn’t know until I started reading about healthy sexuality during my conversion that the proper order of things was affection → foreplay → intercourse. I still often forget that if my husband offers affection, that he is not necessarily doing it to demand intercourse. And it is also hard to remember that if foreplay is not working due to exhaustion or illness or stress, that intercourse can morally be postponed till another more appropriate time. It is sooo hard for me to remember I am allowed to say no when I am scared or exhausted.